Mechanical doping. Wow.

gweeds

Superb. You're wondering if Sean Yates is commuting ahead of you

Pross

Rick Chasey wrote:

There's a guy on my commute who uses an electric motor to assist his riding.

Bloody massive battery, huge hub, and you can hear the whir when there aren't a tonne of cars passing

Almost killed me trying to keep up with a guy sitting upright in civvies into a headwind, until I heard the whir.

You can get your own back now with this new invisible silent motor, it'll freak him out. Same with the old boy on a sit up and beg I struggled to chase down on my commute (I was ready to pack in cycling for good until I saw his giant hub motor!).

Anonymous

Just checked on the clinic, they believe it.

Also Thomas and Paolini crashed at GW so they could change bike to one with a motor.


Why do these people watch the sport if they all think they are cheats

slowbike

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

RichN95.

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Don't knock the man, give him some patent advice in return for a 10% cut of the profits!

mm1

sjmclean wrote:

Just checked on the clinic, they believe it.

Also Thomas and Paolini crashed at GW so they could change bike to one with a motor.


Why do these people watch the sport if they all think they are cheats

Not sure any of them understand what they are watching, or even they they have actually ever ridden a bike.

Back on the motors thing, a few years back when I was vaguely fit me and a mate practically killed ourselves into a block headwind chasing someone up ahead who turned out to be some codger on an ebike - they certainly work, but as others have said are not exactly discrete.

slowbike

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Well - think about it - if all you're after is 10w increase if you put that in the pedals then all you have to do is resist the torque ... where else do you hide a motor?

slowbike

Pross wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Don't knock the man, give him some patent advice in return for a 10% cut of the profits!

I thought I was posting in Pro Race ... not Road General ... ? :roll:

RichN95.

Slowbike wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Well - think about it - if all you're after is 10w increase if you put that in the pedals then all you have to do is resist the torque ... where else do you hide a motor?

How is the motor exerting a lateral force on the crank?

lostboysaint

Slowbike wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Well - think about it - if all you're after is 10w increase if you put that in the pedals then all you have to do is resist the torque ... where else do you hide a motor?

Just checked the date, it really is April 2nd. :shock:

slowbike

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

I wonder if the motor is in the pedals - and left/right balanced - because if the rider isn't 50/50 in the power output from each leg then surely they only need an extra push on the weaker leg - that'll keep the size/weight down - you could even have the battery pack in the shoes - they don't take the shoes from the riders when they're checking bikes do they ...

You're not being serious, are you?

Well - think about it - if all you're after is 10w increase if you put that in the pedals then all you have to do is resist the torque ... where else do you hide a motor?

How is the motor exerting a lateral force on the crank?

If you apply a turning force to the pedal spindle then it will turn the crank ... torque would have to be pretty big though.

Really - did you think this thread was serious?

blazing_saddles

sjmclean wrote:

Just checked on the clinic, they believe it.

Also Thomas and Paolini crashed at GW so they could change bike to one with a motor.


Why do these people watch the sport if they all think they are cheats

I thought that at the time.
Clearly Thomas was waiting for a nice grassy knoll to land in, then faked being blown off.
I reckon all the crashes by guys able to speak English were faked for motorised bike changes.
The whole wind gust idea was probably cooked up by Cookson, so folks wouldn't suspect the guys in the front echelon were all motor dopers. :P

stu-bim

Not sure about undetectable nonsense but looking at the vivax assist, a unit which produced 50 watts for 15 mins could be fairly small and light

50 watts for 15 mins on a climb would certainly be a 'gain' if only somewhat 'marginal'

milton50

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I mean if you had invented a new energy unit, powerful enough to drive a bike and a rider, but so light and small that it cannot be detected by the human eye, you would definitely rather be making the odd 150,000 euro here and there rather than earning trillions revolutionising the car and motor industry.

reborn2 wrote:

I presume most of you guys have seen this company? It offers a totally hidden motor giving a claimed 200w for an hour.... You can retro fit it to your bike or buy prefitted onto their setup. Battery hidden either in a dummy biddon or in the seat post.

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/produkte ... t_4-0.html

Yeh, I have no problem with the concept that a motor can be fitted to a bike, just with the fact that it is so small that it cannot be detected. The product you have linked to weighs 1.8kg and has a big red button on the handlebar.

joelsim

Milton50 wrote:

This thread is absolutely hilarious. I mean if you had invented a new energy unit, powerful enough to drive a bike and a rider, but so light and small that it cannot be detected by the human eye, you would definitely rather be making the odd 150,000 euro here and there rather than earning trillions revolutionising the car and motor industry.

reborn2 wrote:

I presume most of you guys have seen this company? It offers a totally hidden motor giving a claimed 200w for an hour.... You can retro fit it to your bike or buy prefitted onto their setup. Battery hidden either in a dummy biddon or in the seat post.

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/produkte ... t_4-0.html

Yeh, I have no problem with the concept that a motor can be fitted to a bike, just with the fact that it is so small that it cannot be detected. The product you have linked to weighs 1.8kg and has a big red button on the handlebar.

I suspect that one doesn't cost 150k Euro

reborn2

If anyone is unscrupulous enough to use a product like the vivax in competition I'm pretty sure they would find a way of minimising and hiding the big red button. I'd be suprised if a variant hadn't been trialled at some point in the pro peloton, after all if someone is prepared to dope up to their eyeballs, they'd certainly risk power assist if they thought they could get away with it and it offered a clear advantage.

It wouldn't be something an individual could lone wolf though without the team being in on it.

RichN95.

reborn2 wrote:

If anyone is unscrupulous enough to use a product like the vivax in competition I'm pretty sure they would find a way of minimising and hiding the big red button. I'd be suprised if a variant hadn't been trialled at some point in the pro peloton, after all if someone is prepared to dope up to their eyeballs, they'd certainly risk power assist if they thought they could get away with it and it offered a clear advantage.

And that bit in bold is the crux of the matter. Drugs can be taken so that they are undetectable come race day. If EPO had turned a rider's tongue bright blue for a week, no-one would have taken EPO.
So unless these motors have some sort of Mission Impossible self-destruct system, they're going to be fairly straight forward to find. It's not a risk they're prepared to take.

joelsim

RichN95 wrote:

reborn2 wrote:

If anyone is unscrupulous enough to use a product like the vivax in competition I'm pretty sure they would find a way of minimising and hiding the big red button. I'd be suprised if a variant hadn't been trialled at some point in the pro peloton, after all if someone is prepared to dope up to their eyeballs, they'd certainly risk power assist if they thought they could get away with it and it offered a clear advantage.

And that bit in bold is the crux of the matter. Drugs can be taken so that they are undetectable come race day. If EPO had turned a rider's tongue bright blue for a week, no-one would have taken EPO.
So unless these motors have some sort of Mission Impossible self-destruct system, they're going to be fairly straight forward to find. It's not a risk they're prepared to take.

And that is exactly what they are saying is the case. 18 years and no-one has found one yet. Ferrari quotes 10 years for reference.

above_the_cows

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

reborn2 wrote:

If anyone is unscrupulous enough to use a product like the vivax in competition I'm pretty sure they would find a way of minimising and hiding the big red button. I'd be suprised if a variant hadn't been trialled at some point in the pro peloton, after all if someone is prepared to dope up to their eyeballs, they'd certainly risk power assist if they thought they could get away with it and it offered a clear advantage.

And that bit in bold is the crux of the matter. Drugs can be taken so that they are undetectable come race day. If EPO had turned a rider's tongue bright blue for a week, no-one would have taken EPO.
So unless these motors have some sort of Mission Impossible self-destruct system, they're going to be fairly straight forward to find. It's not a risk they're prepared to take.

And that is exactly what they are saying is the case. 18 years and no-one has found one yet. Ferrari quotes 10 years for reference.

Maybe because there is nothing to find...?

RichN95.

Joelsim wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

reborn2 wrote:

If anyone is unscrupulous enough to use a product like the vivax in competition I'm pretty sure they would find a way of minimising and hiding the big red button. I'd be suprised if a variant hadn't been trialled at some point in the pro peloton, after all if someone is prepared to dope up to their eyeballs, they'd certainly risk power assist if they thought they could get away with it and it offered a clear advantage.

And that bit in bold is the crux of the matter. Drugs can be taken so that they are undetectable come race day. If EPO had turned a rider's tongue bright blue for a week, no-one would have taken EPO.
So unless these motors have some sort of Mission Impossible self-destruct system, they're going to be fairly straight forward to find. It's not a risk they're prepared to take.

And that is exactly what they are saying is the case. 18 years and no-one has found one yet. Ferrari quotes 10 years for reference.

'They' being an unheard of Hungarian engineer about whom nothing is known. People not finding something isn't evidence of its existence.
It's like the dragons we have here in Wales. The fact that no-one has ever seen them just proves how good they are at hiding. (And people have been talking about dragons for centuries).

above_the_cows

This is like on of those discussions between atheists and believers or when I had to tell a student last week they couldn't write a dissertation on something that hadn't happened.

gweeds

And frankly Ferrari can do one if he thinks his opinion counts for anything. He's dead to me.

iainf72

I love this story. It's amazing.

- Mystery engineering with special arcane knowledge
- Undetectable
- Monaco (oooh, must be Ferrari)
- "Evidence"

Fabulous.

joelsim

iainf72 wrote:

I love this story. It's amazing.

- Mystery engineering with special arcane knowledge
- Undetectable
- Monaco (oooh, must be Ferrari)
- "Evidence"

Fabulous.

I guess we'll find out over the next few weeks. Looking forward to Brian taking 210 bikes into the local hospital for an x-ray. Realistically though how difficult would it be to find one, just how long can the UCI spend with a set of team bikes after a stage? The answer is not very long.

The figure that seems to be being bandied about is 100W for an hour. That has to be pretty effective if indeed it's true.

iainf72

Joelsim wrote:

I guess we'll find out over the next few weeks. Looking forward to Brian taking 210 bikes into the local hospital for an x-ray. Realistically though how difficult would it be to find one, just how long can the UCI spend with a set of team bikes after a stage? The answer is not very long.

The figure that seems to be being bandied about is 100W for an hour. That has to be pretty effective if indeed it's true.

They were x-raying bikes in 2010 - Didn't find anything strangely enough.

And during the recent inspections at M-SR the police got a semi when a battery fell of a bike. Pity it was the Di2 battery.

tailwindhome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aN7HjwZI-k0

Bo Duke

Look on the bright side, if the bike had a sneaky electric motor the rider wouldn't need to dope......

blazing_saddles

Joelsim wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

I love this story. It's amazing.

- Mystery engineering with special arcane knowledge
- Undetectable
- Monaco (oooh, must be Ferrari)
- "Evidence"

Fabulous.

I guess we'll find out over the next few weeks. Looking forward to Brian taking 210 bikes into the local hospital for an x-ray. Realistically though how difficult would it be to find one, just how long can the UCI spend with a set of team bikes after a stage? The answer is not very long.

The figure that seems to be being bandied about is 100W for an hour. That has to be pretty effective if indeed it's true.

So that's roughly 1.5 watts we can subtract from those climbing calculations that Vayer is so keen on.
Given these bikes are only affordable to the sports very top athletes, the only conclusion we can safely draw from this "evidence" is that average bloke in the pro peloton couldn't beat the average club rider on a Sunday afternoon ride.

disgruntledgoat

That x ray is the inside of an SRM.