Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

kieran240885

I intended on buying some good alu wheels, around the 30mm depth for use a couple of years with possibly moving to deeper carbon when I have more disposable income. I was under the impression you couldn’t use the same hub/spokes when swapping to deeper carbon from alu. I only use the good bike in the dry.

ugo.santalucia

kieran240885 said:

Thanks. That’s interesting to hear. I’m learning a lot from this thread. Would you recommend factory wheels with straight pull over j bend? Which factory brands are good over the bad? I get the impression Malcolm isn’t a fan of DT Swiss but they seem to be a popular option. I looked at hunt and scribe but wasn’t sure who makes the rims and hubs. I know it’s not all about big names but I like to know what’s what.

Malcolm makes some good points and DT Swiss hubs are not my favourite either. The 240 only work for deep carbon rims, due to geometry constraints and the DT 350 still need an annoyingly expensive tool for bearing replacement.
He uses Miche and Bitex, my favourite hubs remain Hope RS4, for a number of reasons, including the fact that all spares are available and all made in England, so no need to wait for the three months delays due to Chinese New Year or the latest deal with the EU that puts a virtual embargo on anything made there or coming from there...

So yes, a good pair of hand builts with hope hubs, Sapim Or DT Swiss spokes and some rims that you fancy (much of a muchness, I'm afraid) will give you the same performance of factory wheels, with the peace of mind that everything can be fixed, often by yourself at home for a few pennies.
You go factory and 3 years down the line all spares have disappeared and it's virtually impossible to replace something as simple as a freehub body and you have 95% of your wheelset in good order, but 100% of it ready to be scrapped...

Factory wheels are good if you are the kind of cyclist who likes to buy the newest components every year... like some on here, who spend more time selling stuff in the classified section of the forum, than actually they do on their bike

paul_the_pedaller

kieran240885 said:

..... I looked at hunt and scribe but wasn’t sure who makes the rims and hubs. I know it’s not all about big names but I like to know what’s what.

From what I've read Hunts are Kinlin rims, Pillar spokes and rebadged Novatech hubs.

I don't know about Scribe but they seem to be assembled overseas as they say about shipments arriving.

kieran240885

Ok so next question. Is there a big advantage over the likes of dt Swiss, scribe and I believe mavic style ratchet hubs over a more traditional pawl system? Don’t hope hubs use a 2 pawl? From what I’ve been led to believe the more pawls the better?

ugo.santalucia

kieran240885 said:

Ok so next question. Is there a big advantage over the likes of dt Swiss, scribe and I believe mavic style ratchet hubs over a more traditional pawl system? Don’t hope hubs use a 2 pawl? From what I’ve been led to believe the more pawls the better?

Hope had 4, now they are down to two, but with many engagement points, shouldn't make much difference in practice. Mine are still the 4 pawls ones. You can still fit a 4 pawls freehub if you want, I think.
The idea of many pawls is to increase the contact points and therefore the engagement angle... but the same can be achieved by having a ratchet with more teeth.

bobones

Spa Cycles are selling off the last of their stock of 20H and 28H Ambrosio P20 rims for £9.50 each + £4 postage. These are very nice rims: strong, wide and tubeless compatible. My only complaint would be that getting tyres to unseat from the rim can be a major struggle with some tyres.

wolfsbane2k

Hi all.

I've got a day to decide on a C2W voucher (halfords... gah) so have approached a LBS to get a handbuilt wheelset for my rather hefty 150kg all commute (130kg is me). It's on 12x100/142 mm thru-axle "adventure" bike.

the LBS has proposed a 32H wheelset comprised of:
Hope RS4 Hubs
DT Swiss TK540 rims
Stainless steel Doubled Butted Spokes ( Make/model TBC)

Does anyone have any concerns with this setup?

I'm considering a Son Delux Dynamo hub instead of the Hope front hub.

ta!

troj

Need some advice on a rim replacement. I've just noticed that I have a crack on my rear rim. Don't know if I should stay with an asymmetric pacenti forza rear. I'm in the mind to try something different after four years on the Forza's. What are my options for a rim brakes wide tubeless rim? Do any 26mm to 28mm wide aluminum rims exist?

mrb123

troj said:

Need some advice on a rim replacement. I've just noticed that I have a crack on my rear rim. Don't know if I should stay with an asymmetric pacenti forza rear. I'm in the mind to try something different after four years on the Forza's. What are my options for a rim brakes wide tubeless rim? Do any 26mm to 28mm wide aluminum rims exist?

Think I'd just stick with another Pacenti so you can reuse the spokes and not have mismatched rims.

troj

mrb123 said:

troj said:

Need some advice on a rim replacement. I've just noticed that I have a crack on my rear rim. Don't know if I should stay with an asymmetric pacenti forza rear. I'm in the mind to try something different after four years on the Forza's. What are my options for a rim brakes wide tubeless rim? Do any 26mm to 28mm wide aluminum rims exist?

Think I'd just stick with another Pacenti so you can reuse the spokes and not have mismatched rims.

The spokes have just over four years in them. Is it worth rebuilding with them or preemptively replace the spokes? If I was going to change rim then I'd get both wheels rebuilt because of vanity.

ugo.santalucia

Why do you want 28 mm wide rims? As they get wider, ally rims quickly become very heavy

2poc

Help / advice needed. I’m in need of a new set of wheels for my single speed / cross / gravel bike.

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/tricross-singlecross/p/22507?color=30810-22507&searchText=9091-4149

Looks like I’ll need track hubs on wide rims to take rim brakes.

I’ve trawled the internet but can’t find suitable wheels off the peg. Hand built look the best solution.

What hubs, spokes, rims would you all advise? I’m using 35c tyres. Ideally £ 300 ish for a set.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

elbowloh

Just seen cycle clinic do 126mm rear wheels. Bonus for my Arthur caygill which currently has a 130 jammed in.

ugo.santalucia

2poc said:

Help / advice needed. I’m in need of a new set of wheels for my single speed / cross / gravel bike.

https://www.specialized.com/gb/en/tricross-singlecross/p/22507?color=30810-22507&searchText=9091-4149

Looks like I’ll need track hubs on wide rims to take rim brakes.

I’ve trawled the internet but can’t find suitable wheels off the peg. Hand built look the best solution.

What hubs, spokes, rims would you all advise? I’m using 35c tyres. Ideally £ 300 ish for a set.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions

Miche Primato track hubs... as for rims it depends... if you want to do cross, hence mud, then you want very durable rims, if you only want to do gravel stuff in the dry season, then you can use something lighter.
For the former, I would use something like Mavic A 719...
Lightest spokes you can your hands on, I would use 32 Sapim Laser or Sapim D-light

Should be on budget

mrb123

https://road.cc/content/review/borg31-disc-wheelset-282853

Nice review for Malcolm over on Road.cc

michael7

Anyone ever run a 23mm tyre (say Conti GP 5000 23c) on Kinlin XR22T rim 19mm ID? I have a seat stay (not chain stay) clearance issue. Or how tall (far away height) is a Conti GP 5000 25c from rim?

Kinlin is sleeeved. Is there no better light rim available these days around 22-23mm OD?

Thank you.

baroid

Hi,

I am after some winter training wheels. They need to be for rim brakes and tubeless with a budget of about £400, have been looking at the Scibe Race or the Wheelsmith Race 24, any opinions? Or alternatives.

https://scribecycling.co.uk/collections/alloy-rim-brake/products/race-alloy-wheelset
https://wheelsmith.co.uk/road-cx-wheels/race-24-wheelsmith

Not sure how you post links, sorry

limitandbeyond

This thread has been inactive for a good while. I hope it is ok to stir it again. I am having some wheels built but obtaining the parts myself. I have ordered a Hope RS4 front hub 28 hole. I am recycling a Duraace FH9000 rear hub, 32 hole. I have ordered Archetype HSP rims for rim brakes. I am leaning towards Sapim cx ray spokes. I know they are more expensive but I am content with that, I am going for their appearance over performance. I have 2 questions: would you recommend brass nipples over aluminium? And secondly I am trying to order the spokes myself, using the pro wheel builder.com spoke length calculator, they do not show the Hope RS4 hub, the closest is the Pro 3 hub. That gives me a spoke length of 293 mm. Will that be correct? Also the lengths for the rear hub are shown as 289.1 and 287.3. Would a 290 spoke do both or should I buy 16 at 290 and 16 at 288. I appreciate any help you can give.

ugo.santalucia

You need different lengths for the rear.
All the sizes of Hope hubs are on their website... RS4 and PRO 3 front are probably very similar. 293 refers to a 2 cross, I presume?
ERD of the Archetype tends to be 593 rather than 595 advertised somewhere.
Alloy nipples save a bit of weight but they are not to be used in winter.

paul_the_pedaller

Personally I'd wait until I had all the parts in hand before ordering spokes, you can check all the measurements for yourself then. If you look around you can get CX-Rays in mm increments.
I wouldn't bother with alloy nipples at all, the slight weight penalty for brass is worth it IMO as you shouldn't suffer from corrosion issues then.

limitandbeyond

ugo.santalucia said:

You need different lengths for the rear.
All the sizes of Hope hubs are on their website... RS4 and PRO 3 front are probably very similar. 293 refers to a 2 cross, I presume?

Thanks Ugo, good to see you still helping folk struggle with the black arts. The calculator I was using was suggesting 293 for 3 cross on the front with the hope rs4. I’ll double check! I will get 2 different sizes for the back wheel, going to the next size over, recommended length.
Thanks Paul, I live in Cumbria, so they’ll get a hammering. I’ll wait for the hub and rims to arrive, the rims are coming from Brick Lane.

ugo.santalucia

One would normally build a 28 h rims 2 cross, rather than 3. You can build it 3 cross, but there is no real advantage... longer spokes/ heavier wheel and the nipples will sit as a steeper angle to the rim

limitandbeyond

ugo.santalucia said:

One would normally build a 28 h rims 2 cross, rather than 3. You can build it 3 cross, but there is no real advantage... longer spokes/ heavier wheel and the nipples will sit as a steeper angle to the rim

Thank you very much, I wasn’t sure about that, but pleased. I will have the beardy bike man build them 2 cross and order the spoke lengths accordingly.

secretsam

So, in summary, don't buy Hunts, get a decent wheelbuilder to put together some (say) Novatec - Sapim - Kinlin/Far sports combos?

ugo.santalucia

secretsam said:

So, in summary, don't buy Hunts, get a decent wheelbuilder to put together some (say) Novatec - Sapim - Kinlin/Far sports combos?

Hunt, like most similar outfits start by selling very good value wheels, which are significantly cheaper than the big brands with no real drawbacks. Over time costs spiral, advertising, possibly more expensive premises, overheads etc... price go up and suddenly you realise there is something cheaper on the market.
I think Prime, with the backing of Wiggle manage to churn out some excellent value products. I never bought their wheels, but I have a set of bars that I paid not very much and if they had a Zipp logo, nobody would have a bad word to say about them.

The bespoke route is better if you need bespoke... which you might, seeing that most wheels on the market are designed around only one type of cyclist

secretsam

Just watched this:

https://youtu.be/LcMcJHqjXls?si=TkS4ciWppbr8Gyj_

Really interesting. @ugo.santalucia note they recommend Venn carbom rims, any experience?

ugo.santalucia

secretsam said:

Just watched this:

https://youtu.be/LcMcJHqjXls?si=TkS4ciWppbr8Gyj_

Really interesting. @ugo.santalucia note they recommend Venn carbom rims, any experience?

no, but judging by the price, they are probably generic Chinese rims rebadged… you can most likely get them direct from China for less.
My Go Zone were just over 200 for the pair and they are pretty good, as good as any other carbon rim

secretsam

Kust pulled the trigger on some carbons built by Ryan Builds Wheels. Excited!

pep.fermi

Sorry folks, but what does "hand built" mean???????????????????

I mean, stuff can be either built by hand, or by a tool machine computer whatever...

If there's a machine to do the whole wheel building process, then building by machine I'd expect it to be better (faster, more precise, more reliable, stronger, cheaper, whatever...) than building by hand. But I doubt such a tool exists.

If such machine indeed is absent, then ALL wheels are built by hand, either by the friendly mate at your LBS round the corner, or the expensive DT Swiss engineer artisan with 30yr experience, or by some random unknown cheap chinese far away.

Same with furniture, handbag, clothing, or anything else...

Or am I wrong?

pblakeney

You are wrong.

Most wheels are built by machine. https://novemberbicycles.com/blogs/blog/whats-in-a-build-hand-built-versus-machine-built