Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

andyh01

Thanks I currently weigh 15 stone, heaviest I've been for awhile I'm usually 11/12 stone . I also may want do a bit of light bike packing over weekend. I also may need to couple up the kiddy trailer or a tag along tailgater for our 4yr old.
Whilst £2k is too rich for me I'd rather have quality then cheap. All in for full bike from scratch looking around the £4k tops but keep yo yoing I was looking at the Enigma escape and J.ack To bikes around £4k but the Alu frame with upgrade parts to me makes more sense.
I would like I think some nice carbon 38 deep wide rims suitable for light off road CX/gravel Son Delux front and probably 240 hub if not the 180 and upgrade the bottom bracket to ceramic bearings too to try n offset a bit of drag from the dynamo depending on overall costs

bobones

Can anyone recommend a 32H rim to replace a set with ERD of 600mm, preferably tubeless compatible? I have a set of wheels with decent hubs and spokes that need new rims so would rather keep the spokes if possible. Current set up is 5800 hubs with 294/292 spokes 3x, and the spokes are just erring on the long side on the rear as 293.2 and 291.5 are the ideal lengths.

bungalballs

I just built up a set of Mavic Open Pro UST and measured the ERD at 600mm. This is way different to Mavic's published ERD but matches what others have found. They are tubeless.

It is a disc rim though, worth double checking the rim brake version doesn't have a slightly different ERD, I have no idea whether it would.

ugo.santalucia

Either that or the classic Velocity A23

bobones

Great, thanks for the replies! The A23 is definitely an option, but the the non-disc version of the OP UST has an ERD of only 593. Would the DT Swiss R460 with an ERD of 596 work if I used spoke washers at the hub?

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

Great, thanks for the replies! The A23 is definitely an option, but the the non-disc version of the OP UST has an ERD of only 593. Would the DT Swiss R460 with an ERD of 596 work if I used spoke washers at the hub?

no... the real ERD of the 460 is actually 593, same as the Archetype

bobones

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bobones wrote:

Great, thanks for the replies! The A23 is definitely an option, but the the non-disc version of the OP UST has an ERD of only 593. Would the DT Swiss R460 with an ERD of 596 work if I used spoke washers at the hub?

no... the real ERD of the 460 is actually 593, same as the Archetype

Strange, I've built a couple of sets using 596 and they were spot on. I remember you saying this, and I tried to measure the ERD myself, but I can't remember my conclusion except I wasn't convinced by the accuracy of my measuring technique! Anyway, I think the spokes would still be too long so the A23 seems to be the best solution.

ugo.santalucia

The A23 are not the trendiest rims in 2018, but they are very robust and I can't recall ever having any issue with them. There is an asymmetric rear version too, if you want to be a fancy builder

cycleclinic

Tubeless tyres unseat from velocity rim at zero pressure somes times and the a23 gas an red if 602mn I think. The erd if the r460 is 596mm when I used them. The open pro UST is 593mn not 600mm. With internal nipples it might be 600mm.

So use internal nipples and then you can use a rim like the open pro or the pacenti Forza.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

Tubeless tyres unseat from velocity rim at zero pressure somes times .

Is that a first world problem? :roll:

bmxboy10

ugo.santalucia wrote:

munkster wrote:

The market for rims exists and they want a slice of that. Making the Exalith would mean competing with their own wheels, as nobody else on the market offers the same thing.
I guess it would be a silly business decision?

I can see that, however I generally feel like those people I know who go for the pretty deep-rim Cosmics (and the accompanying whoosh) look down on the unappealing shallow rims and superior hubs on my handbuilts as if I am some sort of luddite, and are effectively a completely different market. Who knows though, I just hope that the Exalith rims see the light of day, I will be swapping out my Pacenti SL23s sooner than you can "but mine aren't cracked".

I think Ksyrium would be the obvious alternative. We see handbuilt and factory as two separate tribes, but I suspect this is not the way Mavic see the market. The way they see it is that they have a product that they think is unique and it comes as a package, breaking it down and selling the USP as a rim makes no sense at all to them.

If you think about it, they haven't sold ceramic coated rims pretty much since their assembled wheels became more popular than their loose rims in the early 2000s

FWIW last year I bought a pair of Ksyrium Pro Exalith Wheels in the sale. I think I paid around £550. My first impressions were that I felt a bit of a difference on the braking but the wheels flexed like no other wheel set I have ever ridden and back then I was the lightest I've been since I was 25!

I rode the wheels in mainly dry conditions with one or two wet rides thrown and kept finding myself less and less impressed as time went on. In January I build another bike with Campagnolo Athena and some TB14 handbuilt wheels. As soon as I rode the new bike I could not believe how amazing the braking was with the Athena and handbuilt wheels. It was a ten times better than the Exalith! When I say better I mean power, modulation, feel - everything.

Having spent best part of £60 on pads in five months I have now sold my Ksyruim Exaliths and can honestly say I don't miss them one bit. Thats not to say others will agree but lets just say for me the Exalith thing was not worth the dosh. They did however look and sound pretty cool.

The Spiderman

Looking for recommendations for a nice set of hand builts to upgrade from the current Mavic Aksiums on my Supersix.
Weigh 87kg, budget up to £400. Not a big mileage rider as mostly run these days , so tend to be mostly a weekend warrior but occasionally will do a sportive or tri. Would like to inject a bit more zip into my Supersix and have tubeless compatibility .

ugo.santalucia

The Spiderman wrote:

Looking for recommendations for a nice set of hand builts to upgrade from the current Mavic Aksiums on my Supersix.
Weigh 87kg, budget up to £400. Not a big mileage rider as mostly run these days , so tend to be mostly a weekend warrior but occasionally will do a sportive or tri. Would like to inject a bit more zip into my Supersix and have tubeless compatibility .

Start from Hope hubs, which not only are the best and have the best support in the UK, but they also come in funky colours.
Mine have done 8 thousand miles and the bearings are still very smooth. If you are not fussed about the extra gram, go for the steel freehub option, for a completely hassle free experience.

RIms seem much of muchness to me... I've had many and they all feel the same, I settled for the DT 460 because they are cheaper than others.

24 front with Laser spokes, 32 rear with D-Light spokes and you are happy as Larry...

bmxboy10

Mavic Open Pro UST rims are currently going for around £40 each and Ultegra 6800 hubs seem to have come down in price I guess as the new ultegra hubs are now available. That’s the combo I’ve gone for recently and it means the total build cost comes in around £320 if you shop around.

The Spiderman

That’s a pretty good endorsement of Hope hubs Ugo.
So rims DT460 or Open Pro UST?
What sort of weight would I be looking at for Hopes with DT Swiss or Open pros?

ugo.santalucia

The Spiderman wrote:

That’s a pretty good endorsement of Hope hubs Ugo.
So rims DT460 or Open Pro UST?
What sort of weight would I be looking at for Hopes with DT Swiss or Open pros?

As quoted above 1700 grams with alloy freehub and closer to 1800 with steel freehub, Open PRO maybe a bit less.

Never used Open PRO, my feeling is that is not such a robust rim, not like the DT 460 anyway

bmxboy10

I paid £37 per Open Pro rim if that helps.

ugo.santalucia

Re. the ERD of DT 460... is it not quoted at 596 if built with Squorx nipples, but it is 592- with normal nipples, or something like that?

cycleclinic

My miche hubs have smooth bearings after 8000 miles. Hubs with big bearings tend to be like that.

I mention the tubeless tyres unseating from velocity rims sometimes because if they do that then you have to carry a tube which I no longer do so I like tyre rims combos where you can ride the tyre flat if need be and it won't unseat. That is not recommended though.

For rims I would go with kinlin xr22t, Mavic open pro or the Ambrosio p20 which is available in black. As for hubs, miche, hope but that pushes the price up quite a bit or Shimano ultegra. If going with 32h the best hubs you can buy are campagnolo record.

Campag record with a steel Shimano freehub and the open pro ust rims are simply lovely.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

I mention the tubeless tyres unseating from velocity rims sometimes because if they do that then you have to carry a tube which I no longer do so I like tyre rims combos where you can ride the tyre flat if need be and it won't unseat. That is not recommended though.

It stays on if it's very tight, or in other words if the edges of the rim are on the "wide side" of 622. The price to pay is a more difficult tyre fit. On balance, I'd rather have a rim that I can fit a tyre to, than one where the tyre doesn't come off.

cycleclinic

The thing is I fit the tyre once in the warmth and levers make it hassle free. The same would not be true trying to squeeze a tube in on a wet good evening on the way home.

The Spiderman

Another Q for the wheelbuilders .At 87 kg do I need 32 spoke?
Another wheelbuilder reckoned I’ll be ok with 24/28.

cycleclinic

Depends on the rim. With the archetype you be o.k with 28 spokes if Sapim race are used or similar. If you are using the old open pro then 32 spoke is z must. If the rim is the kinlin xr31t then 24spokes is plenty. So it simply depends. Also how you ride can be more important than your weight in determining the magnitude of the tension changes the spokes see

blackstar500

Need guidance . ..

I am considering hand built wheel ...

My weight is about 91kg and looking for light disc wheelset

Any guidance please

bobones

I noticed a something tinkling around inside my handbuilt wheels when I moved them around. I suspected it was dried up sealant inside the tyres, but it's actually some white powdery substance (like damp salt) inside the rim itself. I took out the tubeless value and managed to shake a fair amount of this stuff out through the valve hole. I'm guessing this is aluminium oxide of some description, but does it indicate that my wheels are rotting away from the inside and may be dangerous?

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

I noticed a something tinkling around inside my handbuilt wheels when I moved them around. I suspected it was dried up sealant inside the tyres, but it's actually some white powdery substance (like damp salt) inside the rim itself. I took out the tubeless value and managed to shake a fair amount of this stuff out through the valve hole. I'm guessing this is aluminium oxide of some description, but does it indicate that my wheels are rotting away from the inside and may be dangerous?

You are probably right, but I have not seen a failure due to oxidation yet... I wouldn't worry too much to be honest

bobones

ugo.santalucia wrote:

bobones wrote:

I noticed a something tinkling around inside my handbuilt wheels when I moved them around. I suspected it was dried up sealant inside the tyres, but it's actually some white powdery substance (like damp salt) inside the rim itself. I took out the tubeless value and managed to shake a fair amount of this stuff out through the valve hole. I'm guessing this is aluminium oxide of some description, but does it indicate that my wheels are rotting away from the inside and may be dangerous?

You are probably right, but I have not seen a failure due to oxidation yet... I wouldn't worry too much to be honest

OK, thanks, that's what I thought. I'll probably be replacing these rims soon enough are they're a bit concave and the wear indicator is getting faint. Cheers!

cycleclinic

I have yet to see a failure that would be corrosion related as well. That corrosion is a sign of use.

buckmulligan

Hi,

I'm looking to build up a pair of budget singlespeed wheels for my commuter bike; I already have rims, hubs and nipples that I've scraped together from various places, just need 64x (preferably black) 288 mm spokes. It seems like a lot of UK-based retailers have just stopped stocking spokes in reasonable quantities/prices so where would you guys recommend I look for these and what would you recommend for a budget build?

I only use this bike to roll to the train station every day so not too fussed about weight/performance etc just looking for a decent value option that I can actually get hold of in the UK. Thanks!

agent_buchwald

JE James have got black Halo spokes that they sell individually.