Handbuilt wheels... the big thread

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  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    Buy ck hubs if you want to spend money for the sake of it. Please don't buy sl42 rims. There are better options
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    The sl42 is narrow uncomfortable because its narrow, suits narrow tyres better, is not tubeless compatible and if I was ask to build with it, I would say why it the worst choice out there. Well not the worst. Its not even that aero and cross winds would be a problem.

    Actually in terms of deeper there is the 32h Kinlin but you don't need that many spokes with it 24h and 28h rims and stiff spokes do fine ( I use cx force rear with these as that seems to work) .

    So the better rims are the Kinlin xr31t in 24f/28r or the Kinlin XR22T 32h front and rear. The H plus son archetype is still not a bad choice and there is a 36h option. The Pacenti Forza should be fine in 32h drilling and so would the ambrosio P20 rim.

    The DT SWISS rr511 is just a bit to expensive and it's tubeless compatability (bead hook shape and orientation is the issue here not the ability of the tyres to seat and seal) is suspect.

    The thing with deep rims is you don't need as many spokes. The shallower rims with high spoke count are stiff enough latterly and radially.

    As for the hubs well hubs with steel axles and big bearings are superior. If you want to spend buy Royce if you don't, Miche Primato work very well. Shimano Ultegra hubs are fine too. Chris King hubs are very expensive and the benefit they provide are not unique to Chris King hubs. There are plenty of reliable hubs out there.

    White industries t11 hubs are pretty good too and cheap next to Chris King hubs. Ti freehub steel rear axle...

    If you want something truly special Royce do a Ti/carbon hub with titanium flanges in fact you can have a full to shell and Ti axles... For £950. At least these are beautiful works of art as well as functional hubs.

    Suffice to say the build you had in mind is going to be expensive and possibly a waste of money in terms of how they feel to ride.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • spasypaddyspasypaddy Posts: 5,731
    need some DT Aerolite spokes and by some i mean one...

    Malcom do you stock them?
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    nope I have lots of sapim.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • dstev55dstev55 Posts: 742
    Right I'm about to pull the plug on a set of Hunt 4Season Disc's for £319 unless someone can offer something similar worth considering?

    Will be for my winter bike, 6 bolt QR. I'm currently 67kg might be a touch over 70kg through winter.
  • thiscocksthiscocks Posts: 603
    dstev55 wrote:
    Right I'm about to pull the plug on a set of Hunt 4Season Disc's for £319 unless someone can offer something similar worth considering?
    Plug or pin?
  • dstev55dstev55 Posts: 742
    thiscocks wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Right I'm about to pull the plug on a set of Hunt 4Season Disc's for £319 unless someone can offer something similar worth considering?
    Plug or pin?

    Erm plug...
  • shortfallshortfall Posts: 1,843
    I liked the look of the Hunts but ended up buying something similar from Cycle Clinic. Same sort of money but with better hubs, better spokes and better warranty and after care.
  • thiscocksthiscocks Posts: 603
    dstev55 wrote:
    thiscocks wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Right I'm about to pull the plug on a set of Hunt 4Season Disc's for £319 unless someone can offer something similar worth considering?
    Plug or pin?

    Erm plug...
    So you're not going to buy them?
  • dstev55dstev55 Posts: 742
    thiscocks wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    thiscocks wrote:
    dstev55 wrote:
    Right I'm about to pull the plug on a set of Hunt 4Season Disc's for £319 unless someone can offer something similar worth considering?
    Plug or pin?

    Erm plug...
    So you're not going to buy them?

    Haha got my phrases a bit mixed up, think I was meant to say pull the trigger, or something like that anyway :lol:
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    Anyone heard any news on the Mavic Open Pro Exalith rims yet??
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,971
    munkster wrote:
    Anyone heard any news on the Mavic Open Pro Exalith rims yet??

    I am confident it will not happen... it is not in Mavic's interest to increase the market share for unbuilt rims
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    If that were the case isn’t the genie already out of the bottle with the less-extortionate non-Exalith ones that are already available?
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    They were probably waiting to see how sales went of the regular Open Pro UST.

    Given the knock down prices for them on CRC and the high popularity of Kinlin among wheelbuilders (and small brands such as Superstar and Hunt) I suspect they haven't done as well as they perhaps hoped.

    Although part of that is no doubt people holding out for the Exalith variant they were promised...

    I'm sure Mavic sell loads more wheelsets than they do rims, and they probably have better margins on them too.

    And this is before we even mention the current state of the industry - boom times are over.
  • Camcycle1974Camcycle1974 Posts: 1,356
    timothyw wrote:
    They were probably waiting to see how sales went of the regular Open Pro UST.

    Given the knock down prices for them on CRC and the high popularity of Kinlin among wheelbuilders (and small brands such as Superstar and Hunt) I suspect they haven't done as well as they perhaps hoped.

    Although part of that is no doubt people holding out for the Exalith variant they were promised...

    I'm sure Mavic sell loads more wheelsets than they do rims, and they probably have better margins on them too.

    And this is before we even mention the current state of the industry - boom times are over.

    Speaking of which, anyone know what is going on with Superstar? Bought my last set of wheels from them (Kinlin31) but there seems hardly anything available on the site now.
  • timothywtimothyw Posts: 2,482
    Speaking of which, anyone know what is going on with Superstar? Bought my last set of wheels from them (Kinlin31) but there seems hardly anything available on the site now.
    The story there is that they are moving from an import model to a UK-made model - basically as they are now struggling to make ends meet with the old model (and consumers are pretty wise to the fact that eg their rims are just Kinlin rebranded etc)

    They've been claiming for a few months now that their own UK made hubs etc are coming soon but remains to be seen if they can do it and remain competitive.
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,971
    munkster wrote:
    If that were the case isn’t the genie already out of the bottle with the less-extortionate non-Exalith ones that are already available?

    The market for rims exists and they want a slice of that. Making the Exalith would mean competing with their own wheels, as nobody else on the market offers the same thing.
    I guess it would be a silly business decision?
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,971

    Speaking of which, anyone know what is going on with Superstar? .

    They no longer troll forums, so you might have heard less of them maybe? :D
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    The market for rims exists and they want a slice of that. Making the Exalith would mean competing with their own wheels, as nobody else on the market offers the same thing.
    I guess it would be a silly business decision?

    I can see that, however I generally feel like those people I know who go for the pretty deep-rim Cosmics (and the accompanying whoosh) look down on the unappealing shallow rims and superior hubs on my handbuilts as if I am some sort of luddite, and are effectively a completely different market. Who knows though, I just hope that the Exalith rims see the light of day, I will be swapping out my Pacenti SL23s sooner than you can "but mine aren't cracked".
  • ugo.santaluciaugo.santalucia Posts: 23,971
    munkster wrote:
    The market for rims exists and they want a slice of that. Making the Exalith would mean competing with their own wheels, as nobody else on the market offers the same thing.
    I guess it would be a silly business decision?

    I can see that, however I generally feel like those people I know who go for the pretty deep-rim Cosmics (and the accompanying whoosh) look down on the unappealing shallow rims and superior hubs on my handbuilts as if I am some sort of luddite, and are effectively a completely different market. Who knows though, I just hope that the Exalith rims see the light of day, I will be swapping out my Pacenti SL23s sooner than you can "but mine aren't cracked".

    I think Ksyrium would be the obvious alternative. We see handbuilt and factory as two separate tribes, but I suspect this is not the way Mavic see the market. The way they see it is that they have a product that they think is unique and it comes as a package, breaking it down and selling the USP as a rim makes no sense at all to them.

    If you think about it, they haven't sold ceramic coated rims pretty much since their assembled wheels became more popular than their loose rims in the early 2000s
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,903
    It may also be that as disc brakes come to dominate, the market for rim braked wheels and rims is shrinking. May not make business sense to invest in ramping up Exalith rim production with the expectation of demand reducing in a relatively few years.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    Also the open pro is not selling well and Mavic know the price has been trashed. They don't seem to care much though.

    Even if the exalith rim did get released which it won't I don't think mm any wheel builders will buy for stock, seeing what's happened to open pro prices. I am not joking when I say the wiggle price is trade plus vat and Mavic have shrugged there shoulders at better pricing.

    It matters little how good a rim is. If it can't be sold for a profit, retailers will stop selling them.

    Mavic have two sides to there business. Sell the wheels online for sure. Sell the rims to wheel builders and bricks and motor shops only. Don't let the online guys get them. If they do, pull the wheel supply and tell them why. If that happened to wiggle, wiggle would drop the rims in a heart beat as that tiny trade for them. That way the two markets don't overlap.

    As it is Mavic make a nice rim that shops have lost interest in selling or building with so rim sales fall. It not the cleverest approach is it.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    Hmmm, so the question for me now is whether I choose to rebuild these wheels with the non-Exalith versions (£40 a rim? That's cheap!) if the hallowed stealthy ones are never coming. They're currently Pacenti SL23 on DuraAce and have done about 12,000km which makes me wonder if I am riding on borrowed time given the worries about the rims. I keep saying that "mine are fine" but have a horrible feeling that I am going to come unstuck eventually. Having some rims that aren't total PITAs to put tubeless tyres onto would be nice as well...
  • Maybe we'll see some Mavic UST Exalith full wheels at some point if not the Open Pro rims.

    Seems odd as DT Swiss do the 1400 Oxic rim that is tubeless, Not sure how it compares with Exalith braking though.
    I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles
  • svettysvetty Posts: 1,903
    munkster wrote:
    Hmmm, so the question for me now is whether I choose to rebuild these wheels with the non-Exalith versions (£40 a rim? That's cheap!) if the hallowed stealthy ones are never coming. They're currently Pacenti SL23 on DuraAce and have done about 12,000km which makes me wonder if I am riding on borrowed time given the worries about the rims. I keep saying that "mine are fine" but have a horrible feeling that I am going to come unstuck eventually. Having some rims that aren't total PITAs to put tubeless tyres onto would be nice as well...
    If they haven't cracked by now I doubt they are going to.
    I'd just ride them until the braking tracks are worn, then replace the rims with whatever suits your needs at the time
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    The Ambrosio p20 has the same erd as the sl23 so that's the obvious choice to reuse spokes.

    The Forza is the rim the sl23 always wanted to be. Different erd though.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • munkstermunkster Posts: 819
    The Ambrosio p20 has the same erd as the sl23 so that's the obvious choice to reuse spokes.

    You've only got them in silver though? Not sure about that...

    I can see them in black with black brake track elsewhere, are those like Archetypes where the black will wear off after a bit of use?
  • andyh01andyh01 Posts: 510
    Hi very shortly I'm looking to order a Mason Bokeh Ali frameset for 17 mile each way commute mainly on NCN and main roads as well do everything go, anywhere only bike. I'm pretty set on more road so compact with fr rather than 1x and 700C wheel's 35-40mm for all terrain but again more road and a bit light off road. I would like something a bit different from Hunt s.
    I'm set on a front dynamo hub Son Delux what sort of rim and spokes and what for the rear wheel?
    I do like the look and quality of the new DT Swiss CRC 1400 but rear wheel alone is same price as the frameset, the CRC1100 a bit cheaper as no ceramic bearings it's the 240 hub rather than 180 but also the rim isn't as deep 24mm rather than 38mm deep.
    Can you get the DT Swiss CRC 1100 rims? So I could build the rear on the 240 hub and have a matching front bar the hubs?
    Basically what could/should I get that's similar but better than the hunt gravel how much should I be looking to spend for a decent set of wheels?
    At some point I might go for a second set of 650b with ice spike tyres for snow n ice and another set of tyres for heavier off road if needed and they'll probably be hunts so again for the 700c I like something a bit different and as dynamo be looking for hand built but don't know what - any recommendations?
    Thanks Andy
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    the p20 comes in black. If I can make some space I might stock the black. Yes the black brake track will wear on the p20.
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
  • cyclecliniccycleclinic Posts: 6,863
    with a dynamo hub, you need 32 spoke wheels. Also as you have not stated your weight its 32 spoke wheels. the flange spacing o the front is worse than the rear hub. You should also use a symmetric rim front and symmetric or asymmetric rim rear.

    So I would pick the Velocity aileron, Mavic Open Pro UST disc or DT Swiss R460 DB as these are symmetric rims. The DT RR421 might be good but i have never used it. Gone of DT Swiss a number of reason really. HED would be nice if you can afford them or the Easton R90SL
    http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.
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