Powerlinks don't go together or come apart when squeezed

darkhairedlord

it's a bit like undoing a bra strap one handed.
OP, practice in the queue at the post office.

veronese68

darkhairedlord wrote:

it's a bit like undoing a bra strap one handed.
OP, practice in the queue at the post office.

But only on the bra strap of someone you know, might get arrested otherwise.

Manc33

Quoting directly from the KMC booklet that came with my new chain...

"Suggest to replace a new Missing Link when it is wore off or after locked and unlocked it for 3 times"

"when it is wore off"

This is exactly what I first said (because it had happened to me years ago with one of these links). The small hole in the outer plate of the Missing Link gets "covered over" with metal where the front and rear mechs have changed gear over the Missing Link.

My guess is worn ones probably do slide apart by hand, but new ones are nearly impossible to undo. When I say worn I mean normal wear, not that hole getting covered over. You'd struggle to undo one like that even with those purpose made pliers.

cougie

Where is this metal coming from to cover the hole ? From the chain tool itself ? Christ man - how fast are you pedalling if you can melt a chain ?

ddraver

Manc33 wrote:

Quoting directly from the KMC booklet that came with my new chain...

"Suggest to replace a new Missing Link when it is wore off or after locked and unlocked it for 3 times"

"when it is wore off"

This is exactly what I first said (because it had happened to me years ago with one of these links). The small hole in the outer plate of the Missing Link gets "covered over" with metal where the front and rear mechs have changed gear over the Missing Link.

My guess is worn ones probably do slide apart by hand, but new ones are nearly impossible to undo. When I say worn I mean normal wear, not that hole getting covered over. You'd struggle to undo one like that even with those purpose made pliers.

I did it...

mercia_man

Manc33, I strongly suggest you try to open your link by the CTC tool-free method I described earlier, it really is so simple, whether the quicklink is new or worn. You pull chain up one link on chain ring so quicklink forms a V with link below it, hold firmly with your fingers and give apex a gentle tap with something hard such as a small hammer or stone if you are out on the road. It will open instantly. I have used this trick with KMC, Connex and SRAM links. No need to make special tools or to buy special pliers or a particular make of quicklink. No risk of damage to chainrings or frame unless maybe you mistakenly hit it violently with a sledgehammer.

I wonder whether people who recommend special tools have ever tried the tapping method. Go on, have a go!

slowbike

Veronese68 wrote:

darkhairedlord wrote:

it's a bit like undoing a bra strap one handed.
OP, practice in the queue at the post office.

But only on the bra strap of someone you know, might get arrested otherwise.

Only if you get caught ...

keezx

Manc33 wrote:

CUT
You'd struggle to undo one like that even with those purpose made pliers.

No I don't.

Manc33

You would struggle if the hole had become smaller from wear. How is the pin gonna fit back through again, by magic?! The best you can hope for is squeeze it really tight and hope it snaps out.

The part you "CUT" says:

"When I say worn I mean normal wear, not that hole getting covered over. You'd struggle to undo one like that even with those purpose made pliers."

"Struggle" meaning you're having to bend/shear/damage something to get it back off.

I was thinking something like two 2p coins could undo one in an emergency, two pebbles even could.

I tried today to fit an 8-speed SRAM Powerlink into a new 8-speed KMC X8 EPT chain and the bugger wouldn't go on, it seems the SRAM pins are ever so slightly too narrow. The SRAM Powerlink slides together smoothly on its own. So I tried the KMC Missing Link that came with the chain and it slides right on and off. If anything it is too easy to get back off. I hope it doesn't come loose if I ever pedal backwards.

Why would anyone pedal backwards? I have no idea but I don't want my chain splitting apart if I ever do. Times when you're getting your saddle height right in the house you might pedal backwards to see if your legs reach properly, to get a rough idea.

I will keep this "Missing Link" link on and take pics when it starts getting closed up holes from the front and rear mechs. After all that last one that did that was a KMC one I am sure, not an SRAM one. KMC's own booklet also hints at it. :roll:

imposter2.0

These are still quick links we are talking about right? Not complex machines..?

rolf_f

NeXXus wrote:

Mercia Man wrote:

It's been said many times before on this forum by those in the know: use the CTC-recommended tool-free method to undo any quicklink.

Put chain on big chainring. Move chain by one link so quicklink and link next to it form a V protruding from the ring. Tap the apex of the V with a hammer or similar object. Link will open immediately.

Using a hammer is not a tool free method

He could use his head instead!

As for the Connex links; they are good but I fear that Manc33 won't like them. I suspect he'll regard the fact that you have to fit them a particular way round as another devious and cunning plot.

mercia_man

Rolf F wrote:

NeXXus wrote:

Mercia Man wrote:

It's been said many times before on this forum by those in the know: use the CTC-recommended tool-free method to undo any quicklink.

Put chain on big chainring. Move chain by one link so quicklink and link next to it form a V protruding from the ring. Tap the apex of the V with a hammer or similar object. Link will open immediately.

Using a hammer is not a tool free method

He could use his head instead!

As for the Connex links; they are good but I fear that Manc33 won't like them. I suspect he'll regard the fact that you have to fit them a particular way round as another devious and cunning plot.

Quite right, Rolf. I'm banging my head against a brick wall (or a KMC quicklink) even taking part in this topic!

Manc33

More than half the things that get recommended to me here are recommended because they don't work. :roll: If I got someone else to ask it then yeah.

From what I can gather then it goes like this?

#1 Connex
#2 SRAM
#3 KMC

I am using a KMC one because the SRAM wouldn't snap together on my KMC chain and I don't have a Connex one to use.

You know what makes it convenient more than anything else, you don't have a pin sticking out of one end of the chain with these, so getting the chain threaded through the rear mech is easier. Always used to have to check which end I am putting where, but you don't need to when using these.

They are convenient to use when they work, but I still think they introduce a potential problem with that hole going smaller and smaller over time. Like with most things when corners are being cut, you're going to end up paying for it somewhere down the line.

ai_1

Manc33 wrote:

...Its hardly my fault if I have higher standards than other people and can sniff out BS when I see it....

He he he he


P.S.
If you can sniff BS when there's none there, it might be you. Just saying

nweststeyn

This thread could run to 20 pages. Keep it going!

Manc33

Ai_1 wrote:

Manc33 wrote:

...Its hardly my fault if I have higher standards than other people and can sniff out BS when I see it....

He he he he


P.S.
If you can sniff BS when there's none there, it might be you. Just saying

It might be me... with higher standards than most people. :P

20 pages isn't likely when I am now using one of these stupid Master Links.

Maybe when I come back posting pics of the gnarled outer plates of the link.

Comparison between SRAM and KMC:
http://i.imgur.com/GOSZa5F.jpg

DKay

Manc33 wrote:

More than half the things that get recommended to me here are recommended because they don't work. :roll:

Ok, you've really gone and lost me now.

Carry on.

veronese68

So, I may be being a bit thick here, how does a hole with a pin in it get smaller as it wears? Every other instance I can think of that has a pin capable of moving in a hole makes the hole get bigger or the pin get smaller. Even chains do that, they don't stretch, the pins wear against their respective holes thus giving the impression of stretch.
Clearly this black magic is beyond me.

gpgiant

Maybe you need to start with single-speed and master the black art of fitting/removing a universal chain joining link. Just saying like.

DKay

To be fair to the OP, the 11speed KMC quicklinks aren't as easy to remove as the 9speed and 10speed versions. I'm a bit baffled as to his description of how the link wears though and his general paranoia.

Manc33

DKay wrote:

I'm a bit baffled as to his description of how the link wears though and his general awareness.

I don't know the right word for it, gnarled, fused...

The metal of the outer plate kinda spread across the hole, filling it in around the edges. The link I had looked like any old chain link in the end, with the pin next to metal, not next to an exit hole like it should be.

Tried out the new KMC before and shifting is nice and quick on it, now I am on a chain that's not been wazzed through a chain cleaning device. :roll:

I wanna know where you can buy that sticky lubricant stuff they use on new chains, the secret formula, the holy grail. :oops: The stuff they say don't use those chain cleaning machines because it all gets washed out by the degreaser, yes, they are on about that stuff, not some coating, there's no coating, only that stuff and metal. Cleaning with a rag ensures that stuff stays in the chain. I want a tub of that stuff. :!:

trailflow

I wanna know where you can buy that sticky lubricant stuff they use on new chains, the secret formula, the holy grail. :oops:

Its called grease. Good luck re-applying to the inside of the rollers.

You should post a picture of these fused links and show the world a new phenomenon.

slowbike

trailflow wrote:

I wanna know where you can buy that sticky lubricant stuff they use on new chains, the secret formula, the holy grail. :oops:

Its called grease. Good luck re-applying to the inside of the rollers.

That's easy - in turn you pop each pin out, take the roller out and dunk it in the grease then refit the pin ...

best if done fortnightly ...

gethinceri

I use the SRAM links in your picture on my 8-speed bike. They go on easy, come off easy and I fit a new one with every chain. I have had them break twice but as I carry a spare this has never caused me any inconvenience other than very dirty fingers.
I split the chain every month or so and I'll keep an eye out for strange things happeni g around the holes in future, just in case I can add further grist to this mill.

darkhairedlord

Manc33 wrote:

DKay wrote:

I'm a bit baffled as to his description of how the link wears though and his general awareness.

I don't know the right word for it, gnarled, fused...

The metal of the outer plate kinda spread across the hole, filling it in around the edges. The link I had looked like any old chain link in the end, with the pin next to metal, not next to an exit hole like it should be.

Tried out the new KMC before and shifting is nice and quick on it, now I am on a chain that's not been wazzed through a chain cleaning device. :roll:

I wanna know where you can buy that sticky lubricant stuff they use on new chains, the secret formula, the holy grail. :oops: The stuff they say don't use those chain cleaning machines because it all gets washed out by the degreaser, yes, they are on about that stuff, not some coating, there's no coating, only that stuff and metal. Cleaning with a rag ensures that stuff stays in the chain. I want a tub of that stuff. :!:

Remeber how well you have had your front dérailleur set-up on your frankenbike, remember the dodgy chainline? :shock: All this factors may contribute to some degree to galling at the surface, although this would require poor lubrication on the chain plates which I am sure would not be possible on your bike :oops: . However, I think you have been banging it with your head and some of tin foil has jammed in the hole. :?

chris_bass

Manc33 wrote:

The link I had looked like any old chain link in the end

Are you sure you are trying to remove the right link?

beancounter

As much as I've enjoyed the assorted piss-taking, I have to confess that I have just this minute tried to join a brand new Chorus 11 speed chain with a brand new KMC 11 speed missing link and it simply will not close.

Just.Will.Not.Do.It

I'm not a novice at this, I have seven other bikes whose chains - some campag, some shimano - are all joined with missing links. Never had this problem before

I may have to conclude I have a duff link and order another one

bc

Rodrego Hernandez

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

ddraver

Rodrego Hernandez wrote:

http://sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html

Trouble is Manc is the sort of person that will believe that :roll:

am7

I admit not reading the thread but just wanted to say the kmc or sram powerlinks are completely useless, I believe some are even not reusable and all of them require tools to be removed defeating the purpose. However there is one manufacturer that sells perfectly working powerlinks. They are by connex and take a second or two to remove and put on with no tools required and no hand/finger strength. You just align the powerlink vertically and they drop into position. I discovered them by mistake when they came with my first connex chain (I got fed up by shimano pins and kmc powerlink connectors). I have since then bought additional connectors and use them on shimano chains on my other bikes. Showing how quick it is to remove the chain to unsuspecting cyclists never gets old as well I do not have near enough miles on the connectors to comment on their long term reliability but so far so good. You need to put them on right way up but apart from that little snug I see no disadvantages to them and cannot understand why is not everybody using them.