The classics thread

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Milton50 wrote:
    What do people think about Matthews' chances in Amstel Gold? Too much climbing?
    He would be my PTP if it weren't for the presence of Gerrans who may expect leadership.

    Is there no Amstel PTP?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    RichN95 wrote:
    Milton50 wrote:
    What do people think about Matthews' chances in Amstel Gold? Too much climbing?
    He would be my PTP if it weren't for the presence of Gerrans who may expect leadership.

    Is there no Amstel PTP?

    You should start the thread...
  • RonB
    RonB Posts: 3,984
    Isn't Gerrans more likely to support Matthews, given his injuries earlier in the year & focus on building towards the Giro?
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    EKIMIKE wrote:
    Favourites for the Ardennes then...
    Tier 1: Gilbert, Kwiatkowski, Valverde, Dan Martin
    Tier 2: Rodriguez, Moreno, Mollema, Rui Costa, Kreuziger
    Tier 3: Vanendert, G Caruso, Albasini
    Wildcards/Youngsters: Slagter (2x top tens last year and looked good in Pais Vasco), Dumoulin, Yates, Betancur (still carrying a pie too many?), Bardet, Henao, Wellens
    I always thought Uran would turn into a good Ardennes rider. Seems he only bothers with Lombardia.
    Nibali only seems interested in L-B-L. Will Gallopin begin to make his mark in these races?
    Are you the new Clarence Kirby. ?? ie I told you so.!
    OK keep your shirt on - It's not you but him I'm having a go at.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Milton50 wrote:
    What do people think about Matthews' chances in Amstel Gold? Too much climbing?
    Gilbert has said he feared Matthews in case of a headwind on the Cauberg. Implying that with the new flat section after the climb there's more chance of it coming back together for a (reduced) bunch sprint
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    If guys like Gilbert can't shake Matthews by the time they get to the Cauberg they need to MTFU and start racing sooner.
    _
  • joelsim
    joelsim Posts: 7,552
    Gallopin would definitely be in there in tier 2 for me.

    I'd also like to add a couple of wildcards in Valgren and Felline.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    Does anyone know if my man Degenkolb is riding LBL? If not, why not?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Too heavy?
    _
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    TheBigBean wrote:
    Does anyone know if my man Degenkolb is riding LBL? If not, why not?

    Nah, not riding. If Degenkolb can win LBL then he's going to clean up for the rest of his career. He's surely too big at the moment.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    I think he probably is too heavy, but given his fine form, I don't see why he wouldn't try and see how close he can get to a Gerrans style win. After all, his hero Kelly won twice, so he should be keen to know how much of a challenge it is.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Wasn't the finish different when Kelly won, finished in Liege rather than on a climb at Ans?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Wasn't the finish different when Kelly won, finished in Liege rather than on a climb at Ans?

    I'm not sure, but I am sure that both Kelly and Degenkolb could win on the current finish - assuming they got there.
  • milton50
    milton50 Posts: 3,856
    Well I'm just saying, very very few riders have managed to win the cobbled monuments and also win the climber-friendly monuments of LBL and Lombardy. Not saying he can't do it, but if he does then he'll probably go down as one of the all time greats.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    I can't see it. Unless he got into an early break which wasn't chased down.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    Well we'll never know if he doesn't ride it! His absence indicates that I'm wrong though.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Wasn't the finish different when Kelly won, finished in Liege rather than on a climb at Ans?
    Yes the finish was by the side of the River Meuse after the downhill run from Beaufays with the last climb being La Redoute.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Crickey! That's about 40km from the finish. No Roche-aux-Faucons, Saint-Nicolas or climb up to Ans. Quite a difference.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    It amazes me how anyone keeps up with route changes. I can just about remember that alp d'huez sometimes features in the tour...
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Crickey! That's about 40km from the finish. No Roche-aux-Faucons, Saint-Nicolas or climb up to Ans. Quite a difference.
    More like 20 km's.
    They first put in the New Finish at Ans and the climb from Tilff and called it the Cote de Start Tilman where they freewheeled down to cross the Meuse and pass close by Guillemins Rail Station.
    They noticed at the top of Tilmans at the fork roads that they could go left and freewheel down to Standard Liege Football and then climb St Nicolas to make it harder.
    Then recently they changed Tilman to Roche-aux-Faucons to get up there to the top of Tilman but instead freewheeling a Dual Carriageway they now turn left to come down on the street to the river and then cross to the football ground.
    They have cut out climbs near Trois Ponts these days.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    TheBigBean wrote:
    It amazes me how anyone keeps up with route changes. I can just about remember that alp d'huez sometimes features in the tour...
    But then I remember riding past the Alp d' and not knowing it was there as only Fausto had won on it.
    L-B-L for 17 years (but only 16 at FW) in the days I loved the sport.
    Cycle racing has got too popular these days with those bloody Motor Homes and Idiots jumping on the roads that even the Dauphine is no pleasure now.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    deejay wrote:
    More like 20 km's.

    Oh right. Well, still quite a difference to Sunday's route. Maybe 200/300m from the top of the final climb to the finish. Don't think it's something that Degenkolb can win.
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,900
    I'm not really disagreeing with you as I think there are probably too many hills throughout the day, but did you see his uphill sprint in Dubai? He beat Valverde into second - and looked like he almost killed himself, but that's another matter.
  • greasedscotsman
    greasedscotsman Posts: 6,962
    Good point. Forgotten about that. So has he got a chance at Fleche? :D
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    deejay wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Wasn't the finish different when Kelly won, finished in Liege rather than on a climb at Ans?
    Yes the finish was by the side of the River Meuse after the downhill run from Beaufays with the last climb being La Redoute.
    Wasn't the Sprimont after La Redoute the last climb? Not a huge one, but a launchpad with tired legs after the Redoute
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    TheBigBean wrote:
    I'm not really disagreeing with you as I think there are probably too many hills throughout the day, but did you see his uphill sprint in Dubai? He beat Valverde into second - and looked like he almost killed himself, but that's another matter.
    Winning an uphill sprint after a flat stage is something completely different from winning a race with as much climbing as a Tour de France mountain stage all day. He would certainly be able to cope with the final climb to Ans, but not the total amount of climbing of LBL
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    FJS wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    greasedscotsman wrote:
    Wasn't the finish different when Kelly won, finished in Liege rather than on a climb at Ans?
    Yes the finish was by the side of the River Meuse after the downhill run from Beaufays with the last climb being La Redoute.
    Wasn't the Sprimont after La Redoute the last climb? Not a huge one, but a launchpad with tired legs after the Redoute
    Yup of course your right but I blinked and missed it. :D
    Sprimont being the main road (they do a side road now) as is the the slope of the Les Forges climb for tired legs when they used to pass the monument of the Great Stan Ockers just before Beaufays.
    Now they only pass Stan Ockers on the way out to Bastogne.

    They don't do my favourite climb any more in Trois Ponts, the Cote des Hezalles where a big peloton got whittled down.
    Following a brutal pace on the Wanne hurt the peloton, Criquielion shattered the bunch on the short, steep Cote des Hezalles. The lead group of twenty riders watched as Argentin and Criquielion waged a war of nerves.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    113618_PIC532401545.jpg
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    123216_PIC532322150.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    2015: Not a vintage classics season.
    _
  • dolan_driver
    dolan_driver Posts: 831
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    2015: Not a vintage classics season.

    Fact. Here's hoping the Giro turns out to be a humdinger.

    DD.

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