The classics thread

ddraver

Good for breakaways!

frenchfighter

frenchfighter

Stybar 30mm:




Taped fingers:

milton50

So the cobbled classics season comes to an end for another year. Thoughts?

I think the standout race was Gent-Wevelgem from a viewer's perspective.

At the start of the year it looked as though Sep Vanmarcke was going to take up the mantle of the best rider on cobbles but, for whatever reason, he didn't quite have it at the right moment.

As Boonen and Cancellara prepare for one, maybe two more seasons it looks as though two powerful sprinters are getting ready to replace them as the men to beat.

Anonymous

Milton50 wrote:

At the start of the year it looked as though Sep Vanmarcke was going to take up the mantle of the best rider on cobbles but, for whatever reason, he didn't quite have it at the right moment.

/quote]

I don't think at any point he looked like he was ready to take over, I think the majority of people got wind of the hype, believed it and helped push it.

In reality he's had an Omloop win, and followed Cancellara once in PR but in reality never had anything near enough to beat him, so sat on and worked for second, akin to Terptsra last week with Kristoff.

The Omloop win is the biggest of his career. Not exactly the palmares of the next king of the cobbles is it?

Anonymous

Further on to that. Compare the Palmares of Boonen or Cancellara when he won his first of the cobbled classic and Sep is nowhere near that.

milton50

The Omloop win is the biggest of his career. Not exactly the palmares of the next king of the cobbles is it?

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make there. By definition, you have zero cobbled classic wins before winning your first.

But, yes, no doubt there was hype around him. However, I think if you had asked a lot of commentators and pundits at the start of this year they would have said that Vanmarcke is at least as quick as Cancellara over cobbles.

Anonymous

Milton50 wrote:

The Omloop win is the biggest of his career. Not exactly the palmares of the next king of the cobbles is it?

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make there. By definition, you have zero cobbled classic wins before winning your first.

But, yes, no doubt there was hype around him. However, I think if you had asked a lot of commentators and pundits at the start of this year they would have said that Vanmarcke is at least as quick as Cancellara over cobbles.

It's not that, my point is, in his whole career his biggest win is omloop, when Boonen won his first cobble classic he had won, a GW, E3, Scheldeprijs, 2 tour stages, PR podium and many chipper stages and stage race GC's.

Vanmarkce isn't going to be the next Boonen he's not shown anywhere near that level.

ddraver

I think young De Heer Debusschere may be a future Boonen...

FJS

Gent Wevelgem was great as a spectacle. It's very rare for a race to be entertaining for about 4 hourse of live television.

At De Ronde and Roubaix the lack of clearly defined favourites with Boonen and Cancellara's absence made for hesitant, defensive riding from the kind of outsiders that normally kick it all off early. With Boonen and Cancellara out, suddenly a whole extra list of riders considered themselves contenders, reason to ride more cautiously. They both had entertaining finales, but after a long time of everyone looking at each other without doing much apart from little digs here and there.

Kristoff and Degenkolb are now double monument winners, both still young, and could well be top favourites for these races for years to come.

rick_chasey

I think also we don't have riders who, like Cancellara or Boonen, can drop people almost at will on cobbles.

When either Boonen or Cancellara attacked, it was always a big deal because they could always drop the vast majority in one go.

That didn't seem to be the case today, or indeed in Flanders. It's more a type of selection through the back at the moment. So many riders put in attacks, but, by comparison, they were little digs, and they couldn't really properly crack the groups.

I think there's less differential on the cobbles in the current generation, apart from maybe a Sep on form.

I find it odd that Kristoff can do MSR and Flanders so well and doesn't do well in Roubaix.

But then again, it's still early days for the likes of Degenkolb etc. They'll grow in confidence and be less intimidated by the cobbles in time.

frenchfighter

frenchfighter wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Boonen out for 6 weeks.

Classics are now dead to me.

This is a disaster. Absolute disaster. Enjoyment of the fans sky rockets when Tommeke is there even if he hasn't quite got the killer legs.

Pretty much.

Decent racing but nothing memorable. Bunch of defensive medium weights.

Looking forward to some real hard man racing in the stages races.

pinno

I think it would have been a very different race if there was some rain and wind thrown in. I think the dry conditions suited a more open field. You have to credit Dagenkolb/ No one was going to help him and he never sat on his laurels. He didn't take any chances with 3 men out in front by bridging the gap even though it came back together towards the finish.

iainf72

Curious what we think of Sky's tactics this year. It felt like they did the same thing as the last few years, ie, all over the race at the unimportant bits and then suddenly disappear. I was thinking this last week that you could say G and Stannard won E3 / OHN despite the tactics.

They've got a lot of good guys but just seem to deploy them strangely.

TheBigBean

Indeed. Marginal gains in everything except tactics.

RichN95.

iainf72 wrote:

Curious what we think of Sky's tactics this year. It felt like they did the same thing as the last few years, ie, all over the race at the unimportant bits and then suddenly disappear. I was thinking this last week that you could say G and Stannard won E3 / OHN despite the tactics.

They've got a lot of good guys but just seem to deploy them strangely.

They get the right people in the right places at the right moments, but don't always pick the right moves. 'Lacking the final ball' as we might say in hockey.

E3 and Het Volk they won, GW they were on the podium. In RVV Thomas was right at the front of the group when Terpstra went and today Wiggins got to make his move at the appropriate time (but against too big a group).

It's hard if you haven't got a sprinter. Ask Etixx.

The_Boy

iainf72 wrote:

Curious what we think of Sky's tactics this year. It felt like they did the same thing as the last few years, ie, all over the race at the unimportant bits and then suddenly disappear. I was thinking this last week that you could say G and Stannard won E3 / OHN despite the tactics.

They've got a lot of good guys but just seem to deploy them strangely.

Think they did alright, and I'm more than happy to put the boot in when they cock up. Wiggins went AWOL for a bit but they did find tactically IMO

pinno

The Eurosport commentator said just that ^ today during the race. He said that SKY were trying to control things just like a stage race stage.
In the intensity and physical strain of the classics, it is nigh on impossible to sustain that control mentally and physically for the duration. It's a little naive.

Anonymous

I've been thinking about it tonight, maybe it's a sign of the old days are fully gone that only two exceptional riders are the only ones really able to ride away and decimate the field.

ddraver

^that or it's a comment on how good Boonen and Cancellara really were

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

^that or it's a comment on how good Boonen and Cancellara really were

..are...

ddraver

well...possibly

tailwindhome

Bring on the little guys

philbar72

Rick Chasey wrote:

ddraver wrote:

^that or it's a comment on how good Boonen and Cancellara really were

..are...

Were, their best days are in the past, I'd say. Shame.

rick_chasey

Cancellara won Flanders in 2014, and he went out with 2 broken vertebrates.

How can you say he's passed it?

philbar72

Their age, their condition, their abilities being only very slightly dulled. It's worse for Boonen than cancellara, I'd say. Like you I'd love to see both win more, but for these reasons and a few others I do not see it.

pinno

One slightly processional PR due to injuries/good weather and it's the end of an era :roll:

hammerite

Maybe some of the younger/newer contenders just don't have the confidence just yet to attempt to do a Cancellara or a Boonen (who have been pretty dominant). Added losing Hushovd last year (who was always up for giving it a go!) to Cancellara and Boonen being out and it leads to a pretty strange situation for some of the riders - who have probably spent the last few years seeing what those two are going to try next.

Hopefully some others will have the confidence to take a risk or two in future year's cobbled classics.

milton50

FJS wrote:

At De Ronde and Roubaix the lack of clearly defined favourites with Boonen and Cancellara's absence made for hesitant, defensive riding from the kind of outsiders that normally kick it all off early. With Boonen and Cancellara out, suddenly a whole extra list of riders considered themselves contenders, reason to ride more cautiously.

Yep, completely agree. I was hoping that after Flanders some of the riders would step up and try and take Roubaix by the scruff of the neck but it didn't really materialise.

I don't know how anyone can say that Cancellara is past it. I think it's fair to say that Boonen has lost a few percent compared to his best days,but he would still have had a significant impact on the racing.

When two riders have been the undisputed kings of the cobbles for such a period it takes the up and coming riders a while to grow and mature.

ddraver

pinarello001 wrote:

One slightly processional PR due to injuries/good weather and it's the end of an era :roll:

Well one has said he's retiring and the other has hinted strongly at it...