The classics thread

FJS

After yesterday's properly epic Gent-Wevelgem, a nice Sporza overview of some hard-men bad weather classics. Enjoy: http://sporza.be/cm/sporza/wielrennen/1.2288119

gsk82

I don't get how Wiggins things he can swan around at the back all season and think he'll then suddenly be ready to fight at the front at Roubaix. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't ride anyway to be honest.

okgo

I agree Milton.

With Geraint and Stannard in good form, former likely stronger at the minute in do find it hard to believe they'll ride for Brad. But he knows what is needed to be in contention and if the numbers looks good who knows. He has the legs to ride a race but it's the head more often than not.

DeVlaeminck

shazzz wrote:

Kristoff is looking pretty good.
I'm not writing off Sagan yet. He has looked pretty strong at times - he looked to be riding with ease when he crossed to G and Stybar on the Kwaremont during E3 (before he blew up at the end!) and looked super strong to me in the TA stage where he was second to GvA. I'm not putting any money on him, but it wouldn't surprise me if he has a good Ronde.

I agree, in fact he'd be my pick for Flanders (I'm assuming he's riding it!) and I think he's in the mix for roubaix.

jam1e

I think it's worked out quite well for Wiggo/Sky really - G and Stannard have both shown they're in great form but G's also shown he won't do all the chasing etc. In addition Wiggo goes into the next couple of weekends as an unknown quantity which could easily work to Sky's advantage - even if he's not got the legs to win nobody's likely to let him go as they won't know till it's too late so takes the pressure of the others a bit.

RichN95.

gsk82 wrote:

I don't get how Wiggins things he can swan around at the back all season and think he'll then suddenly be ready to fight at the front at Roubaix. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't ride anyway to be honest.

That's pretty much what he did last year.

frenchfighter

It would be an insult to the real cycling fans if he wins.

He has not done almost nothing this year to help his team or provide any enjoyment or respect for the fans.

He talks about how he loves cycling history but is more than happy to disrespect the sport and massage his own ego.

He is one ugly, tattooed up individual who thinks the world revolves around him.

He is selfishness personified and a terrible role model. The sooner he moves from the world of road cycling the better.

All being well he will DNF before the second cobbled section and a real rider like G or Stannard will be representing Sky.

gsk82

RichN95 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I don't get how Wiggins things he can swan around at the back all season and think he'll then suddenly be ready to fight at the front at Roubaix. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't ride anyway to be honest.

That's pretty much what he did last year.

Last year he got caught out and had to chase back on a couple of times because he was too far back. He might get at top ten doing that but he won't chase back on then ride away. Can also add that if it rains he won't want to know.

alanparsons

RichN95 wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I don't get how Wiggins things he can swan around at the back all season and think he'll then suddenly be ready to fight at the front at Roubaix. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't ride anyway to be honest.

That's pretty much what he did last year.

I was not convinced by Wiggo's 9th place last year, he was never near the top 3 and then basically came home 8th in a nine-up sprint. His current state of fitness is a little unknown as he seems unable or unwilling to finish a race.
To win P-R he is going to have to be in or around the top 10 for the last 100km, and then match any attacks before going for a long solo TT to the finish (al la Cancellara).
Not sure Sky have the manpower or the racecraft to do this, especially as Gee probably feels he has a better chance of winning than Wiggo.
Lets not forget Gee was 7th last year.

salsiccia1

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Sky have got to go with G as plan A for Flanders AND P-R. He's got the form, he's got the balls and he's earned it. It will piss me right off if he has to ride for Wiggins.

I admire Wiggins' honesty in that Guardian interview, but that isn't good enough. How can Sky commit to supporting him when the guys could work their guts out and then he just pulls out with 100k left?

Gazzetta67

Salsiccia1 wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Sky have got to go with G as plan A for Flanders AND P-R. He's got the form, he's got the balls and he's earned it. It will piss me right off if he has to ride for Wiggins.

I admire Wiggins' honesty in that Guardian interview, but that isn't good enough. How can Sky commit to supporting him when the guys could work their guts out and then he just pulls out with 100k left?

Deja vu have sky not been down this road before with the vuelta a few years back when froome was stronger and cobo won the race.
Why the hell should geraint Thomas ride for wiggins. Thomas is in the form of his life. That's why I hope it pours with rain as Wiggins will pack and we won't have this lets ride for the weakest rider nonsense.

EKIMIKE

As others on here have said before, having Geraint Thomas in such great form is not a hindrance to Wiggins' ambitions but an asset.

One-day racing is rarely about strength alone. It's about tactics (including making the right effort at the right time) and a one-man-tactic is pretty low down the order so far as tactics go.

Contrast with Sagan. Not only tactically inept in an individual sense but also without the added dimension of a team-mate that is capable of being an extra piece on the board when it comes to the finale.

salsiccia1

EKIMIKE wrote:

As others on here have said before, having Geraint Thomas in such great form is not a hindrance to Wiggins' ambitions but an asset.

One-day racing is rarely about strength alone. It's about tactics (including making the right effort at the right time) and a one-man-tactic is pretty low down the order so far as tactics go.

Contrast with Sagan. Not only tactically inept in an individual sense but also without the added dimension of a team-mate that is capable of being an extra piece on the board when it comes to the finale.

Fair point, having more than one card is a real plus, but at this point I don't think the Wiggins card is a realistic one. His ambitions should be a long way down the list of Sky's priorities, and certainly not above Thomas', or even Stannard's for that matter.

All that being said, if Wiggins somehow gets up and wins P-R then fair play to him. But if he does, I'll eat my metaphorical hat.

mr_goo

Having more than one card to play is certainly not working out for Bjarne! oops I meant Oleg.

inseine

We Brailsfords world domination plan has got of to a good start in 2015 and he says its more important to have the strongest team than the strongest rider. . Maybe Wiggins was always a distraction.

maddog 2

Salsiccia1 wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Sky have got to go with G as plan A for Flanders AND P-R. He's got the form, he's got the balls and he's earned it. It will piss me right off if he has to ride for Wiggins.

+1

Re. the Wiggins interview, we've read interviews from him a lot over the last few years and it's all about reading between the lines. He keeps saying he's training well for it etc. but he always says that in all his interviews. He talks a good talk but what I think what you need to win P-R is the mental strength to really take it on. I haven't seen anything from Wiggins to persuade me he has this. My guess is that he'll either do nothing or DNF. Thomas is the one to watch, for me.

Flat footed

I'm a bit confused by what i hear about Stannards, he wins brilliantly less then three weeks ago and then DNF's at E3 and GW and his form is questioned, didn't he crash early on at E3, possibly carrying an injury from that?

Macaloon

It's the most mismanaged career since Robbie left Take That. Whether it's right or wrong, I'm giving his plaque a fraternal rub this afty.

rick_chasey

Wiggins is an interesting sideshow, but that's all it is for now.

Thomas is definitely a top favourite (having won E3 - anyone who does is), along with a number of others.

It's a bit like the '06 Tour, post Armstrong/Puerto.

All the big old favourites are out and you've got a handful of potential younger guys and fmr second row favourites who are still around, and any one of them could turn it on for the big day.

RichN95.

Flat footed wrote:

I'm a bit confused by what i hear about Stannards, he wins brilliantly less then three weeks ago and then DNF's at E3 and GW and his form is questioned, didn't he crash early on at E3, possibly carrying an injury from that?

He had a heavy crash in Milan-San Remo.

okgo

Flat footed wrote:

I'm a bit confused by what i hear about Stannards, he wins brilliantly less then three weeks ago and then DNF's at E3 and GW and his form is questioned, didn't he crash early on at E3, possibly carrying an injury from that?

Hills innit. He's too big, he wouldn't be able to do what Cancellara can do on the cobbled climbs to see off the competition I don't think.

Wiggins has the engine to do a Boonen, but his issue last time round was his head, tbh same for Geraint, either one of them could have done what Terpstra did last year better than Terpstra likely. But they didn't they sat in, and regretted it after despite the fact neither has a sprint.

inseine

SKY provisional start list for Flanders;
Eisel, Fenn, Knees, Puccio, Rowe, Stannard, Thomas,Wiggins, Pate, Sutton, Viviani
Obviously that's 11 but it'll be interesting to see who starts.

inseine

Probably all nonsense since Astana are down to ride...........

Pross

Gazzetta67 wrote:

Salsiccia1 wrote:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Sky have got to go with G as plan A for Flanders AND P-R. He's got the form, he's got the balls and he's earned it. It will piss me right off if he has to ride for Wiggins.

I admire Wiggins' honesty in that Guardian interview, but that isn't good enough. How can Sky commit to supporting him when the guys could work their guts out and then he just pulls out with 100k left?

Deja vu have sky not been down this road before with the vuelta a few years back when froome was stronger and cobo won the race.
Why the hell should geraint Thomas ride for wiggins. Thomas is in the form of his life. That's why I hope it pours with rain as Wiggins will pack and we won't have this lets ride for the weakest rider nonsense.

It's nothing like the Vuelta situation. Back then Wiggins had been in great form prior to his Tour crash whilst Froome was an unknown entity at that level. No one could accuse Wiggins of not trying in that race, he gave it everything to try to win but the slopes were too steep for him. OK, Sky left it too late before backing Froome but it is nothing like the current situation where Wiggins appears to be a solo rider within a team.

That said, he could still do Geraint a big favour if he's prepared to attack from a long distance and leave G to sit in and not chase. If Wiggins is in decent form (which no-one seems to know) there's a chance it could pay off for him but if he's in contention in the last 50km then that has to be the tactic. What Sky can't do is have anyone else in the team riding to support Wiggins at the expense of Geraint.

rick_chasey

Depends on the weather.

Remember Wiggins & Thomas missed the original split on the Carrefour de l'arbre(along with Terpstra etc) last year, but made it back when the front group daudled.
The 2nd group was bigger and thus had the manpower to pull it back because a headwind kept it closer together.

Pross

I thought Geraint made the front group and it was Wiggins who came across? Seem to recall Geraint and Rowe in the front group all along but I'm useless on things like that!!

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

I thought Geraint made the front group and it was Wiggins who came across? Seem to recall Geraint and Rowe in the front group all along but I'm useless on things like that!!

Probably.

But that initial selection did not have Wiggins, nor Terpstra, and that was mainly due to the wind that they were still in contention IMO.

A more usual situation would have been the 3 or 4 upfront going to the finish.

cal_stewart

Loving the wiggo chat but know one seems to think the whole wiggo think is a tactic. Wiggo is such an unknown it HELPS G, and Gs form helps Wiggo. I can see sky trying to destroy the field early with Wiggo going for a 50k TT and G sitting in for a attack on the last sector of pave. Wiggos unknown form is one of his and sky's trump cards.

milton50

Pross wrote:

I thought Geraint made the front group and it was Wiggins who came across? Seem to recall Geraint and Rowe in the front group all along but I'm useless on things like that!!

G was almost in the front group but lost contact on the Carrefour de l'Arbre, and then made it back with the Boonen, Wiggins, Terpstra group.

Probably.

But that initial selection did not have Wiggins, nor Terpstra, and that was mainly due to the wind that they were still in contention IMO.

A more usual situation would have been the 3 or 4 upfront going to the finish.

The wind could have played a part in allowing them to come back but I think the main factor was that Sagan and Degenkolb were with them. And Stybar wasn't going to do any work either. So the inevitable happened.

talius

Someone called it earlier on this thread, or on the GW one ( sorry can't remember who).

Sagan has been playing games the past few races. He's lulling everyone into thinking he's cooked and not on form on the last stages of the long races. He sees Spartacus and Boonen are out and knows this is his best chance for RVV. He just needs everyone else to not work together when he goes. And if they think he's not on form they're more likely to leave it enough for him.