Charlie Hebdo

bernithebiker

VTech wrote:

There isn't oil in Dubai. It's a banking state (quite a few people make the same mistake)

Although there is little physical oil in the UAE, and even less in and around Dubai, it remains nonetheless an important centre of business for oil, as is Abu Dhabi.

I hated the place when I went there for (oil) business, and have no desire to return. I think the UAE and Saudi, etc. display an obsequious, modern looking lifestyle when they visit the West, but return to the dark ages when they get home (i.e stoning people and hiding women, etc. etc. )

(Did you know that the Saudi royalty holiday in Geneva in the summer? They bring in multiple jumbo jets of hangers on, cars, luxuries, bodyguards, etc.)

thegreatdivide

bernithebiker wrote:

VTech wrote:

There isn't oil in Dubai. It's a banking state (quite a few people make the same mistake)

Although there is little physical oil in the UAE, and even less in and around Dubai, it remains nonetheless an important centre of business for oil, as is Abu Dhabi.

I hated the place when I went there for (oil) business, and have no desire to return. I think the UAE and Saudi, etc. display an obsequious, modern looking lifestyle when they visit the West, but return to the dark ages when they get home (i.e stoning people and hiding women, etc. etc. )

(Did you know that the Saudi royalty holiday in Geneva in the summer? They bring in multiple jumbo jets of hangers on, cars, luxuries, bodyguards, etc.)

And get off their faces on booze, drugs and a healthy does of high class hookers.

VTech

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

I agree that Dubai hasn't been so environmentally friendly but it is by no means the worst in the world. It is also a huge financial hud for the world and Sheikh Mohamed is loved by the people for being a great man, I guess most here are not aware that he personally paid for the Dubai Cyclists Centre personally because the money hadn't been raised.
He is able to eat at the Dubai Fountains at a restaurant table because he is loved by the people who respect him enough to leave him eat. Our queen or other heads of state would never be able to do this.

Anyway, I'm back in Dubai in a few weeks on the way to the Beijing autoshow. I'm going to stop over in Singapore on the way back after spending a few days in Jakarta visiting a client.
Ill think about all of the anti-dubai brigade as I'm sleeping in first

thegreatdivide

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

I agree that Dubai hasn't been so environmentally friendly but it is by no means the worst in the world. It is also a huge financial hud for the world and Sheikh Mohamed is loved by the people for being a great man, I guess most here are not aware that he personally paid for the Dubai Cyclists Centre personally because the money hadn't been raised.
He is able to eat at the Dubai Fountains at a restaurant table because he is loved by the people who respect him enough to leave him eat. Our queen or other heads of state would never be able to do this.

Anyway, I'm back in Dubai in a few weeks on the way to the Beijing autoshow. I'm going to stop over in Singapore on the way back after spending a few days in Jakarta visiting a client.
Ill think about all of the anti-dubai brigade as I'm sleeping in first

That's nice. I've been through Dubai many times (but thanks for the patronising) on the way to playing at gigs in much, much better places. It's a tacky little hole.

finchy

I've never been to Dubai myself, but my cousin lived there for a couple of years and told me that it's full of wealthy British sociopaths whinging about the quality of slaves.

slowmart

You can look at the worst in everything, including people but where's the joy in that?


And as for slavery, it's here in the UK.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/n ... ly-thought


As a nation it's trying to evolve and define itself in a modern world and in those situations cultural change is never as quick as the reformists would like but moving too fast for the conservatives.

And most ex pat communities are alike, just pick em up in Dubai, drop them into South Africa or Saudi and the locals would still see the same behaviours and attitude. Shame really as its one export i think the world could do without.

finchy

Slowmart wrote:

And as for slavery, it's here in the UK.

I was talking about Brits.

Slowmart wrote:

And most ex pat communities are alike, just pick em up in Dubai, drop them into South Africa or Saudi and the locals would still see the same behaviours and attitude. Shame really as its one export i think the world could do without.

Depends where you go. When I was in Slovakia and Hungary, we ex-pats actually mixed in very well with the locals.

slowmart

johnfinch wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

And as for slavery, it's here in the UK.

I was talking about Brits.

Slowmart wrote:

And most ex pat communities are alike, just pick em up in Dubai, drop them into South Africa or Saudi and the locals would still see the same behaviours and attitude. Shame really as its one export i think the world could do without.

Depends where you go. When I was in Slovakia and Hungary, we ex-pats actually mixed in very well with the locals.

But you are well rounded individual who cycles. Most people who are attracted to the tax regimes of the Middle East have a different focus toward cash personal accumulation and material chattels.

bernithebiker

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

A bit patronising perhaps....?!!

I am firmly in the 'do not like Dubai camp', and I have extensively travelled the world, and I have my own opinions as to what constitutes beauty and taste. For me, Dubai is not it.

Polluted - (how did they manage that in the middle of a desert?)
Horrific traffic jams - (see above)
Flashy wealth of the not classy kind
Horrific waste of energy everywhere you look
Beaches very average
Sea murky and too hot
Ridiculously hot for most of the year
Extensive use of 'slave' labour
A culture that pretends (and tries) to be modern and progressive, but is far from it.

Did I miss anything?

bianchimoon

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

and it comes as no surprise to me, the world is a big place, some people like artificial places (Disneyworld, Dubai, Las Vegas) others prefer the natural beauty of our planet (Himalayas, Alaska, Grand Canyon, Amazon, Rain Forests, Antarctica...etc, always best to stick in the environment you feel most comfortable I find

RDW

bernithebiker wrote:

Polluted - (how did they manage that in the middle of a desert?)
Horrific traffic jams - (see above)
Flashy wealth of the not classy kind
Horrific waste of energy everywhere you look
Beaches very average
Sea murky and too hot
Ridiculously hot for most of the year
Extensive use of 'slave' labour
A culture that pretends (and tries) to be modern and progressive, but is far from it.

Did I miss anything?

Sounds pretty much like London then, except for 'too hot' (and we mostly outsource our slave labour these days). Nearly all of us live in very 'artificial' environments today. Even the British countryside is mostly in a pretty 'unnatural' state after millenia of farming, forest clearance, etc. Dubai is just a particularly rapid and extreme example of the way we've been behaving for the last several thousand years. If they'd started building it up at the same time as Manhattan or Tokyo, would anyone bat an eyelid at it nowadays?


Outer London, a few thousand years before the M25.

VTech

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

and it comes as no surprise to me, the world is a big place, some people like artificial places (Disneyworld, Dubai, Las Vegas) others prefer the natural beauty of our planet (Himalayas, Alaska, Grand Canyon, Amazon, Rain Forests, Antarctica...etc, always best to stick in the environment you feel most comfortable I find

There is one big difference.
I am consistant, I won't say something just to have a pop at someone (like you often do)
I love vegas, Florida, Dubai, Singapore etc. I make no bones about that. I also love Africa and have spent time on safari and loved that. I am yet to visit some places I would like to visit but god willing that will happen.

I dont believe in life after death, we have one guaranteed shot at life so for me, I will do what makes me happy and what gives my wife and kids the very best chance of never wanting for anything.
I agree, that isn't right and what right do they have for that life but I don't lose sleep about it, its the way I have chosen.

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

thegreatdivide

VTech wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

and it comes as no surprise to me, the world is a big place, some people like artificial places (Disneyworld, Dubai, Las Vegas) others prefer the natural beauty of our planet (Himalayas, Alaska, Grand Canyon, Amazon, Rain Forests, Antarctica...etc, always best to stick in the environment you feel most comfortable I find

There is one big difference.
I am consistant, I won't say something just to have a pop at someone (like you often do)
I love vegas, Florida, Dubai, Singapore etc. I make no bones about that. I also love Africa and have spent time on safari and loved that. I am yet to visit some places I would like to visit but god willing that will happen.

I dont believe in life after death, we have one guaranteed shot at life so for me, I will do what makes me happy and what gives my wife and kids the very best chance of never wanting for anything.
I agree, that isn't right and what right do they have for that life but I don't lose sleep about it, its the way I have chosen.

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

You're havering nonsense now.

VTech

thegreatdivide wrote:

VTech wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

VTech wrote:

I must admit that it did not come as any surprise that the same few people commented on the dislike of Dubai.
Thats fine, the world is a big place and some people like margate, others like Dubai. It takes all sorts as they say.

and it comes as no surprise to me, the world is a big place, some people like artificial places (Disneyworld, Dubai, Las Vegas) others prefer the natural beauty of our planet (Himalayas, Alaska, Grand Canyon, Amazon, Rain Forests, Antarctica...etc, always best to stick in the environment you feel most comfortable I find

There is one big difference.
I am consistant, I won't say something just to have a pop at someone (like you often do)
I love vegas, Florida, Dubai, Singapore etc. I make no bones about that. I also love Africa and have spent time on safari and loved that. I am yet to visit some places I would like to visit but god willing that will happen.

I dont believe in life after death, we have one guaranteed shot at life so for me, I will do what makes me happy and what gives my wife and kids the very best chance of never wanting for anything.
I agree, that isn't right and what right do they have for that life but I don't lose sleep about it, its the way I have chosen.

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

You're havering nonsense now.

No, your just out of nonsense to fire at me.
Think harder man, I am sure you will manage something.

Take your time though, I'm working for a couple of hours on the new engine software so during the boredom I can pop back here to check on your results.

rick_chasey

VTech wrote:

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

You make your money cooking & selling meth, and, like any good drug dealer, you spend your ill gotten gains conspicuously on fast cars?

:twisted:


Is fairly ironic you chatting about Dubai as some haven on a thread about the killings of Charlie Hebdo employees for their cartoons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Dubai
Let's pick a few human rights abuses that the Dubai dictators enforce.

Homosexuality is illegal, the death penalty is one of the punishments for homosexuality. Kissing in public is strictly illegal and can result in deportation, kissing in public is a crime punishable by deportation.[28] Expats in Dubai have been deported for kissing in public.[29][30][31]

Dubai has a modest dress code. The dress code is part of Dubai's criminal law.[32] Sleeveless tops and short dresses are not allowed at Dubai's malls.[33][34] Clothes must be in appropriate lengths. In December 2014, it is obvious that these regulations are not applied anymore in Dubai mall where you can see short dresses and sleeveless tops.[35] Expats and tourists are not allowed to consume alcohol anywhere besides licensed venues. Alcohol is only allowed in bars and hotel restaurants. Most restaurants in Dubai are not permitted to sell alcohol.

Apostasy is a crime punishable by death in the UAE. UAE incorporates hudud crimes of Sharia law into its Penal Code - apostasy being one of them.[36] Article 1 and Article 66 of UAE's Penal Code requires hudud crimes to be punished with the death penalty,[36][37] therefore apostasy is punishable by death in the UAE.

Emirati women must receive permission from male guardian to re-marry.[38] The requirement is derived from Sharia, and has been federal law since 2005.[38] In all emirates, it is illegal for Muslim women to marry non-Muslims.[39] In the UAE, a marriage union between a Muslim woman and non-Muslim man is punishable by law, since it is considered a form of "fornication".[39]

Non-Muslim expatriates are liable to Sharia rulings on marriage, divorce and child custody.[40]

During the month of Ramadan, it is illegal to publicly eat, drink, or smoke between sunrise and sunset. Exceptions are made for pregnant women and children. The law applies to both Muslims and non-Muslims, and failure to comply may result in arrest.[41] In 2008 a Russian woman was put on trial for drinking juice in public during the month of Ramadan.[42]

VTech

Rick Chasey wrote:

VTech wrote:

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

You make your money cooking & selling meth, and, like any good drug dealer, you spend your ill gotten gains conspicuously on fast cars?

:twisted:

Now wouldn't that be a story

rick_chasey

For context, ISIS also kill people for Apostasy, so they're in good company anyway.

:roll:

VTech

Rick Chasey wrote:

For context, ISIS also kill people for Apostasy, so they're in good company anyway.

:roll:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.
Also you mention sharia law, this isn't fully practiced in Dubai but rather Sharjah just on the coast which is why when we go sand dune buggying we do that in Sharjah and then drive back to Dubai for a toast.

rick_chasey

VTech wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

For context, ISIS also kill people for Apostasy, so they're in good company anyway.

:roll:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.
Also you mention sharia law, this isn't fully practiced in Dubai but rather Sharjah just on the coast which is why when we go sand dune buggying we do that in Sharjah and then drive back to Dubai for a toast.

Oh lucky women, they can go sleeveless in the hotel and the mall. How liberal.

Look, I get that you like the place because they buy your stuff and that's fine, and you're comfortable in a culturally bereft place that trumps conspicuous consumption above all else - lots of people are - but accept that it has a pretty abysmal human rights track record.

All that happens is the nastiness gets kept away from the glossy hotels and shopping malls, where they'll tolerate the westerners who are either there to live virtually tax free lives of conspicuous consumption or are there to sell stuff for the conspicuously rich who live there.

Go to downtown Dubai, proper downtown, and it's different.

rick_chasey

Dubai would be lucky to get any genuine news, let alone satire like Charlie Hebdo....

So yeah, it is ironic you're positing about Dubai in a thread about the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

If you can't see that you're either being wilfully ignorant or just stupid.

VTech

Rick Chasey wrote:

Dubai would be lucky to get any genuine news, let alone satire like Charlie Hebdo....

So yeah, it is ironic you're positing about Dubai in a thread about the Charlie Hebdo attacks.

If you can't see that you're either being wilfully ignorant or just stupid.

For a forum admin you certainly like to entertain
Anyway, maybe I'm both, ignorant and stupid ?

I do work downtown dubai and just like anywhere else on earth it has issues, I've not really been to many places where this isn't the case.
I was on a game reserve in africa and 3 miles away were slums where 9,000 people lived in an area smaller than my home. Life isn't fair and I accept that. I dislike people suffering which is why I chose to do something about it.

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

VTech

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

Your looking foolish now.
They were in trouble for alcohol which is strictly prohibited.
The kiss was an allegation but nothing to do with the charge.

seanoconn

VTech wrote:

I am yet to visit some places I would like to visit but god willing that will happen.

VTech wrote:

I dont believe in life after death

slowmart

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

You go there knowing the laws and then complain when there is a consequence to breaking the law? Typical Brit.

If you don't agree, don't go. It's really is that simple.

It's moving towards a more tolerant society and given the Isle of Man only legalised same sex sexual activity in 1992 and even today the victimisation of gay and lesbians is not illegal on the isle doesn't put you on the moral high ground.

Like my previous post, it's incremental peaceful improvements to Dubai's society which matter most. It's not where it is at the moment it's where it's heading.

RDW

VTech wrote:

I dont believe in life after death, we have one guaranteed shot at life so for me, I will do what makes me happy and what gives my wife and kids the very best chance of never wanting for anything.
I agree, that isn't right and what right do they have for that life but I don't lose sleep about it, its the way I have chosen.

I am currently on season 4 of Breaking Bad, I suggest some of you download it and watch it. The reasons for my suggestion will become clear very quickly.

If this is the moral you draw from Breaking Bad you may be in for a bit of a shock when Walter finally admits his real motives to himself (long after attentive viewers have realised what drives him).

pblakeney

VTech wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

Your looking foolish now.
They were in trouble for alcohol which is strictly prohibited.
The kiss was an allegation but nothing to do with the charge.

Argue if you wish but the original complaint was for the kiss.
There is also this:-
"In March, an Indian couple in their 40s were sentenced to three months in jail in Dubai after sending each other sexually explicit text messages."
I am curious as to how the authorities found out though. Maybe it was "them" spying.

Slowmart - I have absolutely zero intention of going. Ever. It has no appeal to me.

mamba80

Slowmart wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

You go there knowing the laws and then complain when there is a consequence to breaking the law? Typical Brit.

If you don't agree, don't go. It's really is that simple.

this struck me as rather ironic, considering that anyone saying the same thing about Muslims living in europe would be accused of racism.
Its a great pity Muslims in the west, many of whom have been granted ayslum dont take the same attitude.

pblakeney

mamba80 wrote:

this struck me as rather ironic, considering that anyone saying the same thing about Muslims living in europe would be accused of racism.
Its a great pity Muslims in the west, many of whom have been granted ayslum dont take the same attitude.

Good point as this is exactly what happened in the Charlie Hebdo event.

slowmart

mamba80 wrote:

Slowmart wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

VTech wrote:

Just to help you out a little. A lot of what you wrote above is nonsense. Plenty of women walk in Dubai mall with no sleeves, people hold hands and kissing will not find you arrested but if you were full at it I guess it would offend some.

Really?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8602449.stm

You go there knowing the laws and then complain when there is a consequence to breaking the law? Typical Brit.

If you don't agree, don't go. It's really is that simple.

this struck me as rather ironic, considering that anyone saying the same thing about Muslims living in europe would be accused of racism.
Its a great pity Muslims in the west, many of whom have been granted asylum dont take the same attitude.

Equally Dubai is an Arab state where you can practise most religions without persecution although I doubt Tom Cruise will be trying to set up a new church anytime soon.

The majority of UK Muslims were born here in the UK and Islam is not the problem, it's the Islamic extremists.