Have Rapha finally disappeared up their own @rse?

MountainMonster

Pross wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Ive ridden with 5 or 6 clubs in the UK and they ve all been the same Pross, it's hardly an unfair generalisation. How many do i have to try?!?

That's fair enough, maybe I'm lucky with my club although I have ridden with several other clubs where I've just turned up and asked if I can join their ride and they have all been welcoming, no one has ever read their rule book to me first. I'd love to know what petty rules you've encountered. The only things I've come across are things like the slow group rides at the pace of the slowest rider which just seems like common courtesy to me or some safety rules such as warning riders behind about hazards (again, seems sensible). I know some clubs have rules about mudguards but again that's just a courtesy to others in the group.

I'm certainly not saying clubs are right for everyone and I ride less with the club than I ride solo or with a few friends. The problem I have is when someone hasn't tried it but dismisses it on the basis of their pre-conceptions and not only that, ridicules those who choose to be a club member and ride in club kit.

The first line (in bold) is exactly what I think DDraver was talking about. Turning up implies there was a time set as the start of it, which is also the part of clubs I have a problem with.

I would happily join a club if there was some form of club house that always had members in there ready for a ride. One place where I can cycle to, and start a longer ride when the time suits me.

There are two types of cyclists:
1- People who enjoy cycling, and cycle when it fits in with their schedule
2- People who enjoy cycling, and base the rest of their time schedule around cycling

I, and i'm assuming DD, fall into the first category. I live my life one day at a time, and I don't like having schedules in my personal life, as I live my life professionally on a timeline. I prefer to cycle when I feel ready for it, rather than force myself to go out at 8am on a Sunday to meet the local club. I've been out with the local club a few times, everyone was nice, but at the end of the day, I like no fixed engagements where possible.

Pross

The rules from my club's website:-

As a member of the club you are an ambassador for our club at all times. Our reputation is important to us.

You are expected to:

• Arrive for training and competition in good time to prepare properly

• Wear suitable kit and clothing for all cycling activities.

• Maintain your equipment in a good and safe working condition.

• Warm up and cool down properly on all occasions

• Respect officials and all their decisions

• Applaud all good performances, by club riders or your opposition

• Control your temper. Verbal or written abuse of coaches, officials and other riders, or deliberately distracting/provoking an opponent is not acceptable.

• Use correct and proper language at all times. This also applies to the use of social media and the internet

• Treat all participants in cycling as you like to be treated – not bullying or taking unfair advantage of another participant

• Work equally hard for yourself and your club.

• Respect the rights, dignity and worth of all participants regardless of their gender, ability, disability, cultural background or religion

• Cooperate with your coach, club-mates and opponents, as without them there would be no competition

• Thank officials and opponents after competitions and coaches after training.


I wouldn't describe anything in there as petty, just manners / etiquette generally, but happy to have anything that is point out to me :?

jimmythecuckoo

Right. I have read 8 pages of that before I felt I could add a post.

So here goes.

On the subject of Rapha, I am anti them. But only because I didn't think of it myself and make millions. I also grudgingly respect their marketing and concept. Its brilliantly executed and targeted at a certain market that has money to spend.

I would love some of their kit so I can't afford it. That makes it aspirational I suppose.

I try and ride in my club colours whenever I can, because I understand the need to promote the club and to preserve and encourage new members. Without people in and around the club, events won't run and that would make me sad.

My club is also sponsored to I want to fly that flag.

The bizarre thing nowadays with a lot of club is that a jersey and bibs aren't too far off Rapha pricing... odd eh ?

iPete

meanredspider wrote:

iPete wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too.

Simply put, yes I do.

The club being used an an example, KW, is plenty big enough. Infact I didn't go on a single club run in 2014. I'm not a fan but I still appreciate other aspects of being in the club, this includes choosing who and where I ride.

Of course - but we were talking about club rides.

Yes and I don't go on the official club ride but the club is big enough to make your own 'club rides' or whatever you want to label them. It's no different to doing your own thing, only you have access to more people who may be interested. Make your own, pick your own route and pick who you invite.

Is there a misconception that if you ride with a club it must be at 9am every Sunday, members only in full kit, 1 loop of Box Hill?

MountainMonster wrote:

I would happily join a club if there was some form of club house that always had members in there ready for a ride. One place where I can cycle to, and start a longer ride when the time suits me.

We have one of these, its call a forum, you can even make friends with other members and arrange last minute rides via a telephone

meanredspider

Pross wrote:

The rules from my club's website:-

As a member of the club you are an ambassador for our club at all times. Our reputation is important to us.

You are expected to:

• Arrive for training and competition in good time to prepare properly

• Wear suitable kit and clothing for all cycling activities.

• Maintain your equipment in a good and safe working condition.

• Warm up and cool down properly on all occasions

• Respect officials and all their decisions

• Applaud all good performances, by club riders or your opposition

• Control your temper. Verbal or written abuse of coaches, officials and other riders, or deliberately distracting/provoking an opponent is not acceptable.

• Use correct and proper language at all times. This also applies to the use of social media and the internet

• Treat all participants in cycling as you like to be treated – not bullying or taking unfair advantage of another participant

• Work equally hard for yourself and your club.

• Respect the rights, dignity and worth of all participants regardless of their gender, ability, disability, cultural background or religion

• Cooperate with your coach, club-mates and opponents, as without them there would be no competition

• Thank officials and opponents after competitions and coaches after training.


I wouldn't describe anything in there as petty, just manners / etiquette generally, but happy to have anything that is point out to me :?

They're fine and don't need writing down (obviously not rules of imposter's club...).

I don't have a problem with clubs I just don't have a need for them. I don't want to be in a position where anybody writes any rules or, indeed, where rules are written full-stop. MountainMonster has captured a lot of why I'm in this position.

Pross

MountainMonster wrote:

Pross wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Ive ridden with 5 or 6 clubs in the UK and they ve all been the same Pross, it's hardly an unfair generalisation. How many do i have to try?!?

That's fair enough, maybe I'm lucky with my club although I have ridden with several other clubs where I've just turned up and asked if I can join their ride and they have all been welcoming, no one has ever read their rule book to me first. I'd love to know what petty rules you've encountered. The only things I've come across are things like the slow group rides at the pace of the slowest rider which just seems like common courtesy to me or some safety rules such as warning riders behind about hazards (again, seems sensible). I know some clubs have rules about mudguards but again that's just a courtesy to others in the group.

I'm certainly not saying clubs are right for everyone and I ride less with the club than I ride solo or with a few friends. The problem I have is when someone hasn't tried it but dismisses it on the basis of their pre-conceptions and not only that, ridicules those who choose to be a club member and ride in club kit.

The first line (in bold) is exactly what I think DDraver was talking about. Turning up implies there was a time set as the start of it, which is also the part of clubs I have a problem with.

I would happily join a club if there was some form of club house that always had members in there ready for a ride. One place where I can cycle to, and start a longer ride when the time suits me.

There are two types of cyclists:
1- People who enjoy cycling, and cycle when it fits in with their schedule
2- People who enjoy cycling, and base the rest of their time schedule around cycling

I, and i'm assuming DD, fall into the first category. I live my life one day at a time, and I don't like having schedules in my personal life, as I live my life professionally on a timeline. I prefer to cycle when I feel ready for it, rather than force myself to go out at 8am on a Sunday to meet the local club. I've been out with the local club a few times, everyone was nice, but at the end of the day, I like no fixed engagements where possible.

Of course, if you have an organised ride then it obviously needs a start time. I'm not suggesting everyone should join a club and I generally fit into your 'type 2' as well. Larger clubs will often have and opportunity for smaller, informal group rides that give a third option as well.

My only issue is with dismissing club membership on the basis of 'petty rules' by someone who by their own admission has never been a member of one and criticising people who choose to ride in their club kit. It seems odd when someone who seemingly advocates being a free-spirit and choosing to do things their way seems to have a problem that others may have exactly the same view but with a different result. I don't know of anyone who has ever been press ganged into joining a cycling club.

meanredspider

iPete wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

iPete wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too.

Simply put, yes I do.

The club being used an an example, KW, is plenty big enough. Infact I didn't go on a single club run in 2014. I'm not a fan but I still appreciate other aspects of being in the club, this includes choosing who and where I ride.

Of course - but we were talking about club rides.

Yes and I don't go on the official club ride but the club is big enough to make your own 'club rides' or whatever you want to label them. It's no different to doing your own thing, only you have access to more people who may be interested. Make your own, pick your own route and pick who you invite.

Is there a misconception that if you ride with a club it must be at 9am every Sunday, members only in full kit, 1 loop of Box Hill?

No - no misconception here.

meanredspider

Pross wrote:

MountainMonster wrote:

Pross wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Ive ridden with 5 or 6 clubs in the UK and they ve all been the same Pross, it's hardly an unfair generalisation. How many do i have to try?!?

That's fair enough, maybe I'm lucky with my club although I have ridden with several other clubs where I've just turned up and asked if I can join their ride and they have all been welcoming, no one has ever read their rule book to me first. I'd love to know what petty rules you've encountered. The only things I've come across are things like the slow group rides at the pace of the slowest rider which just seems like common courtesy to me or some safety rules such as warning riders behind about hazards (again, seems sensible). I know some clubs have rules about mudguards but again that's just a courtesy to others in the group.

I'm certainly not saying clubs are right for everyone and I ride less with the club than I ride solo or with a few friends. The problem I have is when someone hasn't tried it but dismisses it on the basis of their pre-conceptions and not only that, ridicules those who choose to be a club member and ride in club kit.

The first line (in bold) is exactly what I think DDraver was talking about. Turning up implies there was a time set as the start of it, which is also the part of clubs I have a problem with.

I would happily join a club if there was some form of club house that always had members in there ready for a ride. One place where I can cycle to, and start a longer ride when the time suits me.

There are two types of cyclists:
1- People who enjoy cycling, and cycle when it fits in with their schedule
2- People who enjoy cycling, and base the rest of their time schedule around cycling

I, and i'm assuming DD, fall into the first category. I live my life one day at a time, and I don't like having schedules in my personal life, as I live my life professionally on a timeline. I prefer to cycle when I feel ready for it, rather than force myself to go out at 8am on a Sunday to meet the local club. I've been out with the local club a few times, everyone was nice, but at the end of the day, I like no fixed engagements where possible.

Of course, if you have an organised ride then it obviously needs a start time. I'm not suggesting everyone should join a club and I generally fit into your 'type 2' as well. Larger clubs will often have and opportunity for smaller, informal group rides that give a third option as well.

My only issue is with dismissing club membership on the basis of 'petty rules' by someone who by their own admission has never been a member of one and criticising people who choose to ride in their club kit. It seems odd when someone who seemingly advocates being a free-spirit and choosing to do things their way seems to have a problem that others may have exactly the same view but with a different result. I don't know of anyone who has ever been press ganged into joining a cycling club.

Blimey - you've taken a lot of what I wrote to heart, haven't you? We started on this particular bit regarding "petty rules" and having to wear club kit - that was the topic related to RCC. Whilst it's not ubiquitous it's also clear that it does exist IN SOME CLUBS too. That's NOT why I haven't joined a cycling club NOR am I criticising those that do it. I don't see any value to me of a cycling club.

If you think I should want to join a cycling club, please explain it to me.

pblakeney

Pross wrote:

The rules from my club's website:-

As a member of the club you are an ambassador for our club at all times. Our reputation is important to us.

You are expected to:
....

• Warm up and cool down properly on all occasions

......
I wouldn't describe anything in there as petty, just manners / etiquette generally, but happy to have anything that is point out to me :?

I will choose how I warm up and cool down. Sometimes I go straight from the bike to the bar without cooling down.
I consider anyone picking me up for that to be petty.
I love a cold lager after a hot cycle. :P

Omar Little

MountainMonster wrote:

The first line (in bold) is exactly what I think DDraver was talking about. Turning up implies there was a time set as the start of it, which is also the part of clubs I have a problem with.

I would happily join a club if there was some form of club house that always had members in there ready for a ride. One place where I can cycle to, and start a longer ride when the time suits me.

There are two types of cyclists:
1- People who enjoy cycling, and cycle when it fits in with their schedule
2- People who enjoy cycling, and base the rest of their time schedule around cycling

I, and i'm assuming DD, fall into the first category. I live my life one day at a time, and I don't like having schedules in my personal life, as I live my life professionally on a timeline. I prefer to cycle when I feel ready for it, rather than force myself to go out at 8am on a Sunday to meet the local club. I've been out with the local club a few times, everyone was nice, but at the end of the day, I like no fixed engagements where possible.

You are under a bit of a misconception over how rigid cycling clubs can be. With the club sunday ride the route and destination will be known in advance but anyone can suggest one. If they dont like the route on offer or the day and time then they can go and ride something that interests them and will likely have someone else from the club join them. Alot of that is informal - someone will post on the club forum saying they are going out for x miles at x average speed x and to meet at the club rooms if interested.

In any case having a club run as a fixture is a good thing because you know that at 9am on a sunday (or whenever) that there is going to be a group out whatever the weather. For training runs like chain gangs then there would be no point in having them if they didnt have a set time.

meanredspider wrote:

They're fine and don't need writing down (obviously not rules of imposter's club...).

I don't have a problem with clubs I just don't have a need for them. I don't want to be in a position where anybody writes any rules or, indeed, where rules are written full-stop. MountainMonster has captured a lot of why I'm in this position.

Rules / constitution are needed to affiliate with British Cycling and get the insurance etc. There are also a few things that need covered if the club has a youth section so they do need written down. If the Rapha club wants to affiliate then they will need to do the same too.

Pross

meanredspider wrote:

If you think I should want to join a cycling club, please explain it to me.

I don't think you should want to, even dismissing it out of hand doesn't bother me in the slightest only the assertion that you wouldn't join as clubs have petty rules. Clubs aren't for everyone, fair enough, but claiming they all / most have some silly rules or insist on you riding in club kit is just incorrect.

meanredspider

Pross wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

If you think I should want to join a cycling club, please explain it to me.

I don't think you should want to, even dismissing it out of hand doesn't bother me in the slightest only the assertion that you wouldn't join as clubs have petty rules. Clubs aren't for everyone, fair enough, but claiming they all / most have some silly rules or insist on you riding in club kit is just incorrect.

I didn't say either of those things. Some clubs have petty rules (as above, one could argue that a rule about warming up and cooling down is petty - I'm not, but you could) and some insist that you wear club kit for training.

But here's some other examples from local to me in Scotland from cycling friends that HAVE joined the clubs there:

1. The first guy, who happens to be an exceptional climber due to his size and physiology, was effectively ignored by existing senior club members because he was simply better than them and they didn't like it. He's the kinda guy who gets on with everyone but felt so unwelcome, he gave up and left.

2. The second guy joined another (the other) club. He said it was riven with infighting. It effectively split after the treasurer couldn't explain where some of the money had gone.

Would you join those clubs? As it happens the (national) motorsport club I used to be a member of had similar financial irregularities and infighting.

I'm not interested in any of that stuff. I just want to take my bike outside, get on, and ride.

meanredspider

Omar Little wrote:

Rules / constitution are needed to affiliate with British Cycling and get the insurance etc. There are also a few things that need covered if the club has a youth section so they do need written down. If the Rapha club wants to affiliate then they will need to do the same too.

For sure - and that's perfectly reasonable. I've been a member of motor sports clubs because, to compete, you have to be. Those clubs had rules. The MSA has the Blue Book stuffed full of rules - it comes with the territory.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not interested in any of that stuff. I just want to take my bike outside, get on, and ride.

People in clubs can actually do that too. They don't need to ask permission.

meanredspider wrote:

They're fine and don't need writing down (obviously not rules of imposter's club...).

There you go again - typing without thinking. Pross' and my own club are actually very similar...

meanredspider wrote:

I don't have a problem with clubs I just don't have a need for them. I don't want to be in a position where anybody writes any rules or, indeed, where rules are written full-stop.

Internet forums have rules too, I believe. As does pretty much every other aspect of society and life in general. Good luck with that...

pblakeney

I've lost track.
How is the Rapha Club doing? Is it any good?

alihisgreat

PBlakeney wrote:

I've lost track.
How is the Rapha Club doing? Is it any good?

No, they have rules and kit and rides with set times

pblakeney

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

I've lost track.
How is the Rapha Club doing? Is it any good?

No, they have rules and kit and rides with set times

Not for me then but sounds just peachy for a few others.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I'm not interested in any of that stuff. I just want to take my bike outside, get on, and ride.

People in clubs can actually do that too. They don't need to ask permission.

meanredspider wrote:

They're fine and don't need writing down (obviously not rules of imposter's club...).

There you go again - typing without thinking. Pross' and my own club are actually very similar...

meanredspider wrote:

I don't have a problem with clubs I just don't have a need for them. I don't want to be in a position where anybody writes any rules or, indeed, where rules are written full-stop.

Internet forums have rules too, I believe. As does pretty much every other aspect of society and life in general. Good luck with that...

Clearly you love your club. That's cool. If it has a rule about social media (like Pross'), I wonder if you conform? See, I was thinking whilst I was typing - just not sure you were thinking whilst reading. I'm not interested in your club though. As for rules, yes there's already far too many of them - I don't need to pay someone so I can abide with a load more.

Which club are you a member of?

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Clearly you love your club. That's cool. If it has a rule about social media (like Pross'), I wonder if you conform? See, I was thinking whilst I was typing - just not sure you were thinking whilst reading.

Yes - our club has very strict rules about anonymous internet forum users discussing anonymous clubs. You might have been thinking - but you weren't thinking all the way through...

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Clearly you love your club. That's cool. If it has a rule about social media (like Pross'), I wonder if you conform? See, I was thinking whilst I was typing - just not sure you were thinking whilst reading.

Yes - our club has very strict rules about anonymous internet forum users discussing anonymous clubs. You might have been thinking - but you weren't thinking all the way through...

It just points out with clarity what a nonsense rules are: abide by the rules (unless we don't know about it or, as others have said, we don't bother enforcing them). What's the point?

imposter2.0

Not sure what you're talking about. I was joking about my 'club rules' in case that wasn't clear to you by the level of sarcasm I was employing.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

Not sure what you're talking about. I was joking about my 'club rules' in case that wasn't clear to you by the level of sarcasm I was employing.

Quite clear - hence my response. Do you employ anything other than sarcasm?

imposter2.0

Mainly sarcasm in this case. Anyway must dash, I've just seen some of our club members ride past without their club kit on. Punishments don't just hand themselves out, you know...

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

Mainly sarcasm in your case. Anyway must dash, I've just seen some of our club members ride past without their club kit on. Punishments don't just hand themselves out, you know...

Neither irony or sarcasm are argument

Wear club kit: Members should wear the club kit if they can. The Kingston Wheelers clothing is pro-team quality and stylish; it's a nice gesture.

pinno

Jesus wept - can someone sum up the last 4 pages please as I cba to read all of it, I can't believe how epic this has become.

meanredspider

pinarello001 wrote:

Jesus wept - can someone sum up the last 4 pages please as I cba to read all of it, I can't believe how epic this has become.

Don't bother - it's an entire waste of space. I started by making some tongue-in-cheek comments about people wearing team kit on club rides voluntarily and it all kicked off....

pinno

meanredspider wrote:

pinarello001 wrote:

Jesus wept - can someone sum up the last 4 pages please as I cba to read all of it, I can't believe how epic this has become.

Don't bother - it's an entire waste of space. I started by making some tongue-in-cheek comments about people wearing team kit on club rides voluntarily and it all kicked off....

It's a good job you didn't mention those people on club rides who wore team kit and didn't wear a helmet

Stevo_666

pinarello001 wrote:

Jesus wept - can someone sum up the last 4 pages please as I cba to read all of it, I can't believe how epic this has become.

It's enough to make you want to become a mountain biker

meanredspider

pinarello001 wrote:

It's a good job you didn't mention those people on club rides who wore team kit and didn't wear a helmet

I'm sure there's a rule about that...

type:epyt

For all those bemoaning the wearing (or not) of club kit ... only join a club with decent kit. If you don't fancy riding around looking like a fyffes banana then just don't join.