Have Rapha finally disappeared up their own @rse?

ddraver

you re very boring sometimes Imposter...

imposter2.0

ddraver wrote:

you re very boring sometimes Imposter...

Just trying to find some logic - where plainly none exists. You are right though - that could be seen as boring to some people..

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

Seems like the only people who have a strong opinion about the wearing of club kit are those not in clubs..

Which explains why we aren't in clubs...

So you're agreeing that your misconception about club kit is the reason why you're not in a club..?? That's very honest...

There is logic there if you spend 2 seconds looking for it. But maybe I need to spell it out in words of no more than one syllable:

Yes - we have strong views about club kit. Many of us see ourselves (sorry 2 syllables there) as individuals (hope that hasn't overdone it) and even the idea of "club kit" isn't a happy one. We might also not much like the petty mindedness that often comes with clubs (kit being a typical example). If you don't care about these things or like a herd mentality or petty rules and stuff like that, maybe clubs are appealing for the benefits they undoubtedly bring. Personally I'd prefer to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick. I am a member of a car club because they organise a race series but never attend "club" meetings and there is no club kit or anything else like that.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

If you don't care about these things or like a herd mentality or petty rules and stuff like that, maybe clubs are appealing for the benefits they undoubtedly bring. Personally I'd prefer to poke my eyes out with a sharp stick.

I might care about it if it actually happened, but lots of other people on this thread are also telling you that is not their experience either, so congratulations on taking an isolated example and extrapolating (a whopping FIVE syllables - boom!) it across the whole of the entire UK club structure. Ironically (another five syllable cracker - get in!), you were banging on about the importance of 'accurate data' in another thread last week.

Pross

meanredspider wrote:

on-yer-bike wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

That's an interesting point. I've never been a member of a cycling club but I've always thought how stupid it is that they dress up in club kit for a training ride - I've never quite got the point. Other sports clubs I've been a member of have never insisted on this for training.

I don't think anybody insists on it...

You mean to say the groups of club riders I see head to foot in (pretty much exactly) the same gear do it voluntarily? :shock: It's worse than I thought!

Of course they do

Seriously, though, why? In my yoof I was involved in some national-level sport and nobody wore team kit to train. If I'm honest, it puts me off the idea of joining a club (fortunately, it's not high on my list).

In my case I wear club kit because I like the design / colours and it is high quality stuff (Adidas, the same as the GB team use and the only club in the UK they make kit for) at a relatively cheap price as it gets subsidised. What's wrong with people from a club wearing the same kit? No-one insists on it being worn in our club and I don't know of any other club where they do. When I played rugby most people would train in an old version of the club jersey but I suspect the reason that in many sports this doesn't happen is that the kit is supplied to the team for a match and then taken away to be cleaned so the individuals didn't need their own stuff.

Another reason for club riders to wear their club kit whenever possible is to give the club sponsors, without whom many clubs would struggle to exist, more exposure.

As for your comments on clubs, everyone is entitled to their view but if you haven't been a club member how do you have insight of their petty mindedness / petty rules? I can't think of any petty rules in the club I ride with. In fact I can't think of any club rules that get enforced. The benefits by contrast are a weekly session where kids learn basic cycling skills off qualified coaches; organising races and audaxes that otherwise wouldn't happen and providing easy access to like-minded people who can assist beginners with all the 'silly' questions that now get raised on internet forums. I suspect the fact that you are so dismissive of cycling clubs despite, by your own admission, having never been in one is more of a reflection of your own prejudices than anything else.

pblakeney

Well, what do you know?
People actually have different views and opinions.

I wouldn't allow such nonsense in my club.

imposter2.0

PBlakeney wrote:

Well, what do you know?
People actually have different views and opinions.

I wouldn't allow such nonsense in my club.

Let me guess - you're in 'Masters of the Bleedin' Obvious CC'..?? What's your club kit like?

pblakeney

Imposter wrote:

PBlakeney wrote:

Well, what do you know?
People actually have different views and opinions.

I wouldn't allow such nonsense in my club.

Let me guess - you're in 'Masters of the Bleedin' Obvious CC'..?? What's your club kit like?

Imagine the womens Columbian Cycle Team outfit, but a male version.
That is what I would pick.

meanredspider

Of course I'm generalising. But it's true that there are people that like clubs and there are people that don't. Almost by definition, if you're a member of a cycling club, you like cycling clubs and you see nothing wrong with them (you might not even spot what someone else considers a petty rule - after all, I'm sure the petty-minded people that write these rules think that they are important (the rules and themselves)).

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

And, yes, I've been a member of various clubs before (as I said earlier in the thread, I participated in some national level sports once upon a time) so I do have some experience of how they operate. I also see how parts of the car club I'm a member of operates. I've also clearly stated that there are benefits to clubs - I'm not trying to ban clubs just explaining (because it was necessary) why some of us don't like clubs and the whole club kit thing.

feltkuota

meanredspider wrote:

Of course I'm generalising. But it's true that there are people that like clubs and there are people that don't. Almost by definition, if you're a member of a cycling club, you like cycling clubs and you see nothing wrong with them (you might not even spot what someone else considers a petty rule - after all, I'm sure the petty-minded people that write these rules think that they are important (the rules and themselves)).

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

And, yes, I've been a member of various clubs before (as I said earlier in the thread, I participated in some national level sports once upon a time) so I do have some experience of how they operate. I also see how parts of the car club I'm a member of operates. I've also clearly stated that there are benefits to clubs - I'm not trying to ban clubs just explaining (because it was necessary) why some of us don't like clubs and the whole club kit thing.

Dude. I also like to wear what I like,ride where and with whom I like and also ride with a club. That new club is RCC. They are not opposing views. Some folks can mix and match how they do things and not feel the need to exclude options on the basis of misconceptions..

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

ddraver

If imposter will let us get back to the topic...

Felt- can you explain why you chose the RCC over, say, Kingston Wheelers? Genuine Question I promise, if i was in London still i'd have been very tempted

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too. Now, you might be the organiser or you might have some lovely system for deciding or you might like everything in which case you don't care. But, chances are, club rides are at a set time(s) and club members (maybe graded by ability) can attend. Who knows how the route is decided... None of those things suit me. I'm sure there are other benefits to the club (discounts, events, facilities etc) but, again, not many of those things appeal to me when it comes to cycling. I'm glad that people like clubs - that's all good. Some of us don't.

imposter2.0

ddraver wrote:

If imposter will let us get back to the topic...

Ironically, your question doesn't do that.

meanredspider

ddraver wrote:

If imposter will let us get back to the topic...

Felt- can you explain why you chose the RCC over, say, Kingston Wheelers? Genuine Question I promise, if i was in London still i'd have been very tempted

I'm tempted by Rapha CC. Coffee & bike borrowing (here and in places I might well visit) are two things that appeal. They're the bits for which I have a lot of freedom. I'm guessing Kingston Wheelers don't offer those things

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too. Now, you might be the organiser or you might have some lovely system for deciding or you might like everything in which case you don't care. But, chances are, club rides are at a set time(s) and club members (maybe graded by ability) can attend. Who knows how the route is decided... None of those things suit me. I'm sure there are other benefits to the club (discounts, events, facilities etc) but, again, not many of those things appeal to me when it comes to cycling. I'm glad that people like clubs - that's all good. Some of us don't.

Well, of course club rides are at set times and locations - how would people know when/where to meet otherwise? Route is usually decided on the day by those that attend, based on factors like weather, wind direction, available time, etc. Oh, and anyone who disagrees is summarily executed - is that what you want to hear?

feltkuota

ddraver wrote:

If imposter will let us get back to the topic...

Felt- can you explain why you chose the RCC over, say, Kingston Wheelers? Genuine Question I promise, if i was in London still i'd have been very tempted

I didn't overly think it to be honest. I liked the RCC concept ie other locations, bike trips with rental if required. do most of my riding either solo or with a couple of mates. Thought the 200quid was worth the punt to see what other options were out there. Bonus being I really like the grey/silver kit.

Pross

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too. Now, you might be the organiser or you might have some lovely system for deciding or you might like everything in which case you don't care. But, chances are, club rides are at a set time(s) and club members (maybe graded by ability) can attend. Who knows how the route is decided... None of those things suit me. I'm sure there are other benefits to the club (discounts, events, facilities etc) but, again, not many of those things appeal to me when it comes to cycling. I'm glad that people like clubs - that's all good. Some of us don't.

So basically you have just decided (pre-judged) what all cycling clubs must be like on the basis of other (non-cycling) clubs you once belonged to? At least we know there was some logic in the thought process.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

Well, of course club rides are at set times and locations - how would people know when/where to meet otherwise? Route is usually decided on the day by those that attend, based on factors like weather, wind direction, available time, etc. Oh, and anyone who disagrees is summarily executed - is that what you want to hear?

I don't "want" to hear anything in particular! I just want to be able to decide these things for myself - simple as. For me it's part of the joy of cycling. I'm not knocking anybody else's view it just isn't mine.

ddraver

Ive ridden with 5 or 6 clubs in the UK and they ve all been the same Pross, it's hardly an unfair generalisation. How many do i have to try?!?

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

I don't "want" to hear anything in particular! I just want to be able to decide these things for myself - simple as. For me it's part of the joy of cycling. I'm not knocking anybody else's view it just isn't mine.

Normally, I would agree - everyone is entitled to their opinions. But when those opinions are based on logical fallacies and misconceptions, you shouldn't be surprised if people disagree with you...

meanredspider

Pross wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too. Now, you might be the organiser or you might have some lovely system for deciding or you might like everything in which case you don't care. But, chances are, club rides are at a set time(s) and club members (maybe graded by ability) can attend. Who knows how the route is decided... None of those things suit me. I'm sure there are other benefits to the club (discounts, events, facilities etc) but, again, not many of those things appeal to me when it comes to cycling. I'm glad that people like clubs - that's all good. Some of us don't.

So basically you have just decided (pre-judged) what all cycling clubs must be like on the basis of other (non-cycling) clubs you once belonged to? At least we know there was some logic in the thought process.

Holey Moley - all you guys are doing is confirming to me that cycling clubs are full of petty-minded people!

No - I'm explaing some of the reasons why I don't like clubs and club rides. I've discussed with friends and others their experiences of bike clubs. None of it interests me.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I don't "want" to hear anything in particular! I just want to be able to decide these things for myself - simple as. For me it's part of the joy of cycling. I'm not knocking anybody else's view it just isn't mine.

Normally, I would agree - everyone is entitled to their opinions. But when those opinions are based on logical fallacies and misconceptions, you shouldn't be surprised if people disagree with you...

What logical fallacies and misconceptions?

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I don't "want" to hear anything in particular! I just want to be able to decide these things for myself - simple as. For me it's part of the joy of cycling. I'm not knocking anybody else's view it just isn't mine.

Normally, I would agree - everyone is entitled to their opinions. But when those opinions are based on logical fallacies and misconceptions, you shouldn't be surprised if people disagree with you...

What logical fallacies and misconceptions?

You know, the ones we've been talking about for the last few pages. Those.

Pross

ddraver wrote:

Ive ridden with 5 or 6 clubs in the UK and they ve all been the same Pross, it's hardly an unfair generalisation. How many do i have to try?!?

That's fair enough, maybe I'm lucky with my club although I have ridden with several other clubs where I've just turned up and asked if I can join their ride and they have all been welcoming, no one has ever read their rule book to me first. I'd love to know what petty rules you've encountered. The only things I've come across are things like the slow group rides at the pace of the slowest rider which just seems like common courtesy to me or some safety rules such as warning riders behind about hazards (again, seems sensible). I know some clubs have rules about mudguards but again that's just a courtesy to others in the group.

I'm certainly not saying clubs are right for everyone and I ride less with the club than I ride solo or with a few friends. The problem I have is when someone hasn't tried it but dismisses it on the basis of their pre-conceptions and not only that, ridicules those who choose to be a club member and ride in club kit.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I don't "want" to hear anything in particular! I just want to be able to decide these things for myself - simple as. For me it's part of the joy of cycling. I'm not knocking anybody else's view it just isn't mine.

Normally, I would agree - everyone is entitled to their opinions. But when those opinions are based on logical fallacies and misconceptions, you shouldn't be surprised if people disagree with you...

What logical fallacies and misconceptions?

You know, the ones we've been talking about for the last few pages. Those.

None that I can see. I see no value in a bike club to me. Where's the misconception or logical fallacy in that?

iPete

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too.

Simply put, yes I do.

The club being used an an example, KW, is plenty big enough. Infact I didn't go on a single club run in 2014. I'm not a fan but I still appreciate other aspects of being in the club, this includes choosing who and where I ride.

I still feel the club kit thing is a bit of a misconception but its a good kit and most people choose to buy it.

meanredspider

iPete wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

I like to ride when I like, with whom I like, where I like, wearing what I like.

As do I - always have. Doesn't stop me being a member of a cycling club. Why would it?

It doesn't of course. But I doubt that when you go on a club ride (if you do) you choose when you go, where you go or who comes along too.

Simply put, yes I do.

The club being used an an example, KW, is plenty big enough. Infact I didn't go on a single club run in 2014. I'm not a fan but I still appreciate other aspects of being in the club, this includes choosing who and where I ride.

Of course - but we were talking about club rides. They may be many other benefits to KW - that's fine. None that I want enough to decide to join a club. I'm not ridiculing anybody for joining a club. It's not for me.

imposter2.0

meanredspider wrote:

None that I can see. I see no value in a bike club to me. Where's the misconception or logical fallacy in that?

Of course you can't see them. If you could see them, then you would effectively be agreeing with our contention that you are talking bollox.

meanredspider

Imposter wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

None that I can see. I see no value in a bike club to me. Where's the misconception or logical fallacy in that?

Of course you can't see them. If you could see them, then you would effectively be agreeing with our contention that you are talking bollox.

That's a logical fallacy simply because you're unable to describe them. ddraver has already confirmed my view too. Is he also talking bollox?