Disc or caliper brakes?

nibby

It's pretty straight forward really. Discs, especially hydraulics.

Did someone say they are too powerful?? HA HA.... Nonsense.

correct technique is the answer

ugo.santalucia

Shall we make an effort and say something new? The same things are being said on a weekly basis and often depict imaginary scenarios which don't exist in real life

gweeds

How's this as an overview.

Discs are superior to calipers in terms of power, modulation, feel and (especially) wet weather performance. They're not particularly mature on road bikes which brings with it some compromises in terms of weight and wheel options, both of which will undoubtedly not be the case in 2-3 years. They will be the de facto choice in the pro peloton within the next 3-5 years, and also on pretty much all road bikes sold. Today calipers are still the choice for those looking for lightweight builds, use of legacy wheelsets and (possibly) for dry use only. As soon as you introduce any wet weather riding there can be no doubt that discs are the better choice. Whilst I can understand the choice of calipers today (and I have just bought a new bike with calipers myself), within 5 years I don't believe that will be the case.

It's the same argument that's had for mechanical vs electronic shifting. Once that slides down to 105/Athena level the uptake will be even bigger and the advantages of that made more apparent.

For me, by 2020, pretty much all road bikes sold at £1000+ will come with hydraulic discs, a thru-axle standard and electronic shifting.

greasedscotsman

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shall we make an effort and say something new? The same things are being said on a weekly basis and often depict imaginary scenarios which don't exist in real life

Ugo has just killed the BR forum!

veronese68

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Shall we make an effort and say something new? The same things are being said on a weekly basis and often depict imaginary scenarios which don't exist in real life

I saw a picture in a magazine of a bloke that had cut the end of his finger off with the disc when he fell off his bike. Maybe discs should be banned because injuries never happened without them.
Thought I'd give the doom mongers some ammunition, personally I'll stick with better braking. I think better braking is more likely to prevent an accident rather than worry about the minuscule risk of a disk causing injury.
Unfortunately I don't think there is anything new to say. The naysayers will use examples like the one above as 'proof' that discs are dangerous and keep their heads in the sand on the subject of improved braking, even if they try a bike with discs.

ugo.santalucia

Gweeds wrote:

They're not particularly mature on road bikes which brings with it some compromises in terms of weight and wheel options, both of which will undoubtedly not be the case in 2-3 years.

But this is because in Britain there is a lot of fanfare but not much novelty. I know a weight weenie who has a 5.9 Kg bike with discs. I think you can buy disc wheelset around 1.3-1.4 kg and if you can't, you can have one made... it's really not that difficult. 400 grams of hubs 280 grams of spokes and nipples, 700 grams of carbon rims and you are at 1380 grams without even going the super light hubs route or tubular route. The reason most people don't, is because they don't buy these as summer bikes just yet.. when they will, they will also spend 1-2 grand on carbon wheels.
Calipers are fairly light and if you want you can buy a carbon ceramic disc rotor that weighs nothing.

homers_double

As a mountain biker I was holding out for a new bike this year with discs but as usual to add discs there is a massive component downgrade.

So I've just 105'd my Allez and I'll carry on saving until next year when there is more choice.

ugo.santalucia

homers double wrote:

As a mountain biker I was holding out for a new bike this year with discs but as usual to add discs there is a massive component downgrade.

So I've just 105'd my Allez and I'll carry on saving until next year when there is more choice.

It's the hydraulics... it's very expensive and bring the rest of the spec down to meet the price point.

I spent ages evaluating pros and cons and in the end decided the Hy RD was the way to go. This is my rationale

1) I like the reservoir integrated in the caliper, it means there is more heat exchange. Heat won't travel through the brake line to the reservoir in the lever, in the absence of a pump

2) I don't need a hydraulic rear brake, it's a waste of money... it doesn't do enough work to pay for itself

3) The cost can be kept to a minimum and I can use any shifter on the market rather than only one and very expensive option

4) No hydraulic line to worry about. A cable is something I am more familiar with

homers_double

I know, same with MTB really.

Thats why I'm toying with a full custom build I can add to when funds allow. For that I'd need a disc specific frame and wheels, from there its a matter of picking bits up as I go along.

ugo.santalucia

homers double wrote:

I know, same with MTB really.

Thats why I'm toying with a full custom build I can add to when funds allow. For that I'd need a disc specific frame and wheels, from there its a matter of picking bits up as I go along.

There is a fundamental difference with MTBikes, in that there the brake and shifter levers are not integrated. This has opened the market to a lot more manufacturers with expertise in brakes and hydraulics but not in gears. Better choice, cheaper prices... not sure this will happen for the road market, where levers are integrated and traditionally there are only 3 players and they all offer the same thing packaged slightly differently.
Would it be unthinkable to have the levers not integrated? I for one wouldn't mind, but I suspect the road market is full of snobs that value aesthetics far more than practicality... :roll:

andrewjoseph

ugo.santalucia wrote:

There is a fundamental difference with MTBikes, in that there the brake and shifter levers are not integrated...

I have to comment Ugo, shimano did hydraulic brifters on mtb's years ago.

ugo.santalucia

andrewjoseph wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

There is a fundamental difference with MTBikes, in that there the brake and shifter levers are not integrated...

I have to comment Ugo, shimano did hydraulic brifters on mtb's years ago.

Whatever, the thing is now they are two separate parts... you buy the brake lever and you buy the shifter, both are quite reasonably priced and don't need to be the same brand... it makes a lot of sense.

Ber Nard

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Gweeds wrote:

They're not particularly mature on road bikes which brings with it some compromises in terms of weight and wheel options, both of which will undoubtedly not be the case in 2-3 years.

But this is because in Britain there is a lot of fanfare but not much novelty. I know a weight weenie who has a 5.9 Kg bike with discs. I think you can buy disc wheelset around 1.3-1.4 kg and if you can't, you can have one made... it's really not that difficult. 400 grams of hubs 280 grams of spokes and nipples, 700 grams of carbon rims and you are at 1380 grams without even going the super light hubs route or tubular route. The reason most people don't, is because they don't buy these as summer bikes just yet.. when they will, they will also spend 1-2 grand on carbon wheels.
Calipers are fairly light and if you want you can buy a carbon ceramic disc rotor that weighs nothing.

I think wheels are an area yet to be fully exploited. On a bike with disc brakes, there will surely be no need for specific winter and summer wheels. Why not run a pair of carbon rims through the winter when rim wear and braking performance are not a concern?

bendertherobot

ugo.santalucia wrote:

homers double wrote:

As a mountain biker I was holding out for a new bike this year with discs but as usual to add discs there is a massive component downgrade.

So I've just 105'd my Allez and I'll carry on saving until next year when there is more choice.

It's the hydraulics... it's very expensive and bring the rest of the spec down to meet the price point.

I spent ages evaluating pros and cons and in the end decided the Hy RD was the way to go. This is my rationale

1) I like the reservoir integrated in the caliper, it means there is more heat exchange. Heat won't travel through the brake line to the reservoir in the lever, in the absence of a pump

2) I don't need a hydraulic rear brake, it's a waste of money... it doesn't do enough work to pay for itself

3) The cost can be kept to a minimum and I can use any shifter on the market rather than only one and very expensive option

4) No hydraulic line to worry about. A cable is something I am more familiar with

4 is pretty much why I keep looking at Rival Hydro and then deciding against it. I am sure, with practice, I can learn all about how to cut and bleed etc but I am very very good at outers, cable and installing cable operated discs (be they pure or Hy Rd).

Plus, on 3, if I did kill a shifter I'd be very very upset.............

kajjal

While better performing hydraulic discs on road bikes a very over priced compared to those on mountain bikes.