Weight shedding plan

diy

Ugo: I think the argument is the other way around. 500kcal of HIIT being better than 500kcal of Endurance.

In my small brain mentality I was assuming 500kcal was 500kcal and that weight loss was as simple as either less in and more out or both.

Keef66: thanks for the link, I read the wiki and the reference. What is not clear is how the two types of exercise were compared. It would seem logical that 20 mins of HIIT would be better than 20 mins of endurance, simply because I would expect 20 mins of HIIT to consume something around double the kcal. What I'm interested in is the EPOC effect for the same Kcal delivered from different exercises.

I've heard many of the gym bunnies go on about getting an all day burn post HIIT. Can't find anything to suggest its true.

markwb79

diy wrote:

Is there any evidence that say 500kcal burned due to HIIT will give better than say 500kcal burned in zone 2 for example? My only thought is that with HIIT you might deplete some of the expensive to produce energies which require more kcal to re-produce*

* that was a guess btw. any other opinions?

Surely time is just as big a benefit of HIIT?

You are probably training for twice as long doing it in Zone 2.

meanredspider

The benefit of zone 2 is twofold:
- it increases your fat-burning adaptation which ultimately makes you faster
- it doesn't deplete your glycogen anywhere near as much as higher-intensity activity - this allows you to do MORE exercise. You can't sustain daily high intensity exercise for this reason.

The best plan is to alternate high and low intensity.

Regarding "afterburn" I've heard it said that resistance training (weights) does this best.

markwb79

meanredspider wrote:

The benefit of zone 2 is twofold:
- it increases your fat-burning adaptation which ultimately makes you faster
- it doesn't deplete your glycogen anywhere near as much as higher-intensity activity - this allows you to do MORE exercise. You can't sustain daily high intensity exercise for this reason.

The best plan is to alternate high and low intensity.

Regarding "afterburn" I've heard it said that resistance training (weights) does this best.

If you can train more than 15 hours a week, I might agree.

But riding 10 hours a week gives enough time to recover and then ride harder than zone 2 each time.

Riding in zone 2 too much will get you really good at riding in zone 2.

meanredspider

That's why I said alternate hi and lo intensity!

I used to commute 30-mile RT with 2000ft of climbing a day - and used to go reasonably hard (80% HRmax and above). By Friday I was done in - I couldn't go hard. In hindsight, I'd have been much better going really hard Tues and Thurs and doing the other days in Zone2. I might have even felt like riding at the weekend.

ugo.santalucia

If you use the expression training in zone 2, essentially you are looking at sport as a way to lose weight... which I am not overly interested in... I leave that to the gym lot, who put themselves through hours of repetitive soul destroying exercise to burn calories...
Sport for me has to be fun

ai_1

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If you use the expression training in zone 2, essentially you are looking at sport as a way to lose weight... which I am not overly interested in... I leave that to the gym lot, who put themselves through hours of repetitive soul destroying exercise to burn calories...
Sport for me has to be fun

There are plenty proponents of the theory that "training in zone 2" is the best way to develop your base fitness on top of which you would then do speed work. I can't offer any expertise as to wehether this approach is valid but I don't think training in zone 2 is synonomous with using exercise for weight loss

ugo.santalucia

Ai_1 wrote:

There are plenty proponents of the theory that "training in zone 2" is the best way to develop your base fitness on top of which you would then do speed work. I can't offer any expertise as to wehether this approach is valid but I don't think training in zone 2 is synonomous with using exercise for weight loss

It is entirely possible that if you have 20 hours a week to put into training, then maybe a proportion of that has to go into that activity... however, if you only have 10, like most (lucky) people do and put 7-8 of them (the commute) into zone 2 training, that only leaves you with a couple of hours on a sunday to give it a bit of beans, which I don't think it's enough to make good progress. Besides, when you have 60 lights to go through and a bus behind you, it's a bit difficult to ride based on a heart monitor

ai_1

ugo.santalucia wrote:

.....Besides, when you have 60 lights to go through and a bus behind you, it's a bit difficult to ride based on a heart monitor

Very true!

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

There are plenty proponents of the theory that "training in zone 2" is the best way to develop your base fitness on top of which you would then do speed work. I can't offer any expertise as to wehether this approach is valid but I don't think training in zone 2 is synonomous with using exercise for weight loss

It is entirely possible that if you have 20 hours a week to put into training, then maybe a proportion of that has to go into that activity... however, if you only have 10, like most (lucky) people do and put 7-8 of them (the commute) into zone 2 training, that only leaves you with a couple of hours on a sunday to give it a bit of beans, which I don't think it's enough to make good progress. Besides, when you have 60 lights to go through and a bus behind you, it's a bit difficult to ride based on a heart monitor

Agree with the "bus" bit! But, for zone 2 to be effective, it just needs to be an hour or more. You don't need 20 hours. Going slow, though, is incredibly hard and doesn't feel like "real" training. It is, however, the key to endurance. Understand though if you don't want to do it.

AK_jnr

This thread gave me the kick up the ass to get back to my best race weight of 67kg.
2 kg gone in the first week so back down to 70.5kg which may sound like a lot to lose in one week, but all I did was cut out the bread and the treats we seemed to be having every night. Training remained the same.
This included two Nandos I had due to going out with friends as well.

So thanks!

ugo.santalucia

AK_jnr wrote:

This thread gave me the kick up the ass to get back to my best race weight of 67kg.
2 kg gone in the first week so back down to 70.5kg which may sound like a lot to lose in one week, but all I did was cut out the bread and the treats we seemed to be having every night. Training remained the same.
This included two Nandos I had due to going out with friends as well.

So thanks!

The first week you always lose a bit more... I don't think it's all (or even mostly) fat though, there might be a fair share of water which might get retained when you have a bad diet or something...

ai_1

ugo.santalucia wrote:

AK_jnr wrote:

This thread gave me the kick up the ass to get back to my best race weight of 67kg.
2 kg gone in the first week so back down to 70.5kg which may sound like a lot to lose in one week, but all I did was cut out the bread and the treats we seemed to be having every night. Training remained the same.
This included two Nandos I had due to going out with friends as well.

So thanks!

The first week you always lose a bit more... I don't think it's all (or even mostly) fat though, there might be a fair share of water which might get retained when you have a bad diet or something...

Plus if you want to you can do your "pre" weigh in after dinner and with a full bladder and your "one week" weigh in before dinner and perhaps straight after a ride while slightly dehydrated. You can lose nothing real and still show a drop. Obviously none of us would fool ourselves so obviously though!

Time for me to get serious. I've signed up for a marathon in April and an Ironamn 70.3 next August. Time to start getting in shape. On the negative side, cycling is going to have to take a back seat to running and swimming training for a while since cycling is currently my strong discipline.

FatTed

http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/

Rule #42 // A bike race shall never be preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run.
If it’s preceded with a swim and/or followed by a run, it is not called a bike race, it is called duathlon or a triathlon. Neither of which is a bike race. Also keep in mind that one should only swim in order to prevent drowning, and should only run if being chased. And even then, one should only run fast enough to prevent capture.

ilav84

Interesting thread. Going to have a proper read through it this evening . I am currently riding to lose weight and improve endurance. Still can't get my head round this sitting in zone 2 to try and lose weight though. Currently 90kgs and looking to lose 6 by July.

keef66

Bit of a thread revival!

My 2 take home points from the many discussions on weight loss and my personal experience:

1) Sort your diet out first. Far easier to lose weight by proper eating than by exercise alone. Combining the two is the best of both worlds. I've lost a stone since January following the 5:2 diet, and that's despite a 3 week period in which I was unable to ride and overeating / drinking on business trips (put 3 pounds back on!).

2) If you're limited in the amount of time you have on the bike, warm up properly then just go as hard as you can for the duration of the ride. You'll burn more calories and benefit from the EPOC effect. Don't get hung up on fat burning zones or obsess about what type of ride burns what kind of fuel.

(obviously if you have unlimited cycling time then an all-day endurance ride will burn more calories than a quick hour's blast, but not many of us are in that fortunate position)

diy

keef66 wrote:

1)..2)..

exactly. It pretty much is as simple as that.

stueys

I tend to organise my week into intensity sessions for an hour during the week (unless I'm back from work early and can sneak out) then a 2 hour ride on saturday with a long ride on sunday. The week hour rides are done at sweetspot or, increasingly now, threshold. Saturday tends to be a tempo ride with a bit of sweetspot/threshold in there. The sunday long ride I try to target z2 on the flats and do the climbs at sweetspot or threshold.

I find that this gives me plenty of time spent in base without targetting a specific base ride. Even my more intensive saturday ride tends to hit a resonable amount of base purely as a consequence of factoring in traffic, road conditions, etc, etc.