Weight shedding plan

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Good luck you'll soon be back to my weight

Is that a threat?

markwb79

Always find threads like this interesting.

Good luck with it first off!

My thoughts....

Breakfast, you could eat only once...after the ride.

I would swap dinner and lunch around if possible?

I also would find something different to the jacket potato.

I always try to eat dinner (never a big dinner) as early as possible. Then an hour before bed I would have some quark with jam.

A friend always recommended to 'stop bread and pasta'. Just following this a little always helps me keep my weight relatively in control.

ugo.santalucia

Markwb79 wrote:

Always find threads like this interesting.

Good luck with it first off!

My thoughts....

Breakfast, you could eat only once...after the ride.

I would swap dinner and lunch around if possible?

I also would find something different to the jacket potato.

I always try to eat dinner (never a big dinner) as early as possible. Then an hour before bed I would have some quark with jam.

A friend always recommended to 'stop bread and pasta'. Just following this a little always helps me keep my weight relatively in control.

The thing is

1) Bonking on my way to work is the worst way to start the day

2) Yes, ideally a bigger lunch and smaller dinner would be best... but you have lunch at work, so you have to make do with what you find that is edible and vaguely healthy, while at dinner you are in control, so can have a hearthy meal, yet healthy.
The choice of a jacked potato is an alternative to meat and chips or fish and chips or meat and rice, which is what the canteen has to offer. Seems the healthiest option (and the cheapest too!)
I could bring my own sandwiches, but I'd end up eating a lot of processed bread, fatty cheese, processed ham and that sort of crap, which I don't think is any good to be honest.

Cutting on bread and pasta is a good advice and easily implemented as my wife can't eat gluten

markwb79

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Markwb79 wrote:

Always find threads like this interesting.

Good luck with it first off!

My thoughts....

Breakfast, you could eat only once...after the ride.

I would swap dinner and lunch around if possible?

I also would find something different to the jacket potato.

I always try to eat dinner (never a big dinner) as early as possible. Then an hour before bed I would have some quark with jam.

A friend always recommended to 'stop bread and pasta'. Just following this a little always helps me keep my weight relatively in control.

The thing is

1) Bonking on my way to work is the worst way to start the day

2) Yes, ideally a bigger lunch and smaller dinner would be best... but you have lunch at work, so you have to make do with what you find that is edible and vaguely healthy, while at dinner you are in control, so can have a hearthy meal, yet healthy.
The choice of a jacked potato is an alternative to meat and chips or fish and chips or meat and rice, which is what the canteen has to offer. Seems the healthiest option (and the cheapest too!)
I could bring my own sandwiches, but I'd end up eating a lot of processed bread, fatty cheese, processed ham and that sort of crap, which I don't think is any good to be honest.

Cutting on bread and pasta is a good advice and easily implemented as my wife can't eat gluten

I thought that might be the case. its similar for me, but our canteen is very good so I can work it the other way round.

As for the commute, you wont bonk (massive assumption of course). I ride between 70 and 80minutes to work and then have a largish porridge when I get there and that is enough until about 1230. On the days I dont ride, I have half the amount of porridge, but before leaving the house.

You only have a little weight to loose really, but I lost about 12kg commuting 45minutes each day for 12 months. Ride on an empty stomach and when I got to work I had a protein shake and that was enough until lunch.
Loads of people will talk about real foods vs the protein shake, but for me it was about convenience and was completely controlled. - Granted, it was disgusting compared to a proper breakfast, but it served a purpose.

Pross

I lost 12lbs in 3 weeks with a very simple 'diet'. It was done via a personal trainer I know and run through Facebook where you had to log all your meals each day and check your weigh and, more importantly as a sign of a loss of body fat, key measurements. It involved eating just fruit, vegetables and lean meat / fish (less than 3% fat). You could eat as much of it as you wanted and as everything was natural it was also extremely healthy. It took a few days to lose the cravings for fat and sugar but after that it wasn't too bad at all. Everything you ate and drank was logged in My Fitness Pal and then posted on the group page on FB (which acted as an incentive to behave!) and the person running it then analysed the results to ensure that not only were you keeping the fat levels and calories low but also that you were still consuming plenty of protein and nutrients. Unfortunately, as is often the case, I lapsed back into my old ways at the end of the 3 weeks but will be doing it again shortly.

ugo.santalucia

Pross wrote:

I lost 12lbs in 3 weeks with a very simple 'diet'. It was done via a personal trainer I know and run through Facebook where you had to log all your meals each day and check your weigh and, more importantly as a sign of a loss of body fat, key measurements. It involved eating just fruit, vegetables and lean meat / fish (less than 3% fat). You could eat as much of it as you wanted and as everything was natural it was also extremely healthy. It took a few days to lose the cravings for fat and sugar but after that it wasn't too bad at all. Everything you ate and drank was logged in My Fitness Pal and then posted on the group page on FB (which acted as an incentive to behave!) and the person running it then analysed the results to ensure that not only were you keeping the fat levels and calories low but also that you were still consuming plenty of protein and nutrients. Unfortunately, as is often the case, I lapsed back into my old ways at the end of the 3 weeks but will be doing it again shortly.

That seems to cut dramatically on carbs, which are essential for a balanced diet... unless you include potatoes as vegetables...

dinyull

You wont bonk without breakfast on the way to work, food/energy stores from the day before will see you through. In all the years of commuting I've always ridden on an empty stomach and haven't suffered yet.

dinyull

Also, low carb diets are common place with many sports/athletes.

meanredspider

Dinyull wrote:

You wont bonk without breakfast on the way to work, food/energy stores from the day before will see you through. In all the years of commuting I've always ridden on an empty stomach and haven't suffered yet.

The concern I have is that you burn your glycogen stores (liver and muscles) and these are much easier to burn than they are to replace.

nibby

You wont bonk. I thought the same. I have never left the house without having a breakfast until this year and the thought of commuting for 60 to 80 mins without anything but an espresso filled me with fear!! bonking, feeling starved etc.

I was advised to try it a few days a week and again before a weekend training ride and tbh have never had a problem. It supposed to help with the adaptation of pulling what you need from your fat stores which we apparently have plenty! well I have anyway!!

It was the same on the way home, sometime's felt so knackered I used to get passed by grannies with a basket full of shopping on the front!!

So again was advised to eat a good lunch and if I needed it a snack approx 2 hrs before I left, something like a handful of nuts or apple.

Lunch today for example is a salad (Tesco £1) tin of sardines 80p - green beans and 2 hard boiled eggs I cook the night before at home all thrown together. Easy and cheap.

The results are that I now have a constant level of energy for both commutes and can go 3-4 hrs on a training ride with only a few nut's.

It has opened my eyes to what I thought I needed to eat and can get away with not eating. Using this method I've lost around 7 lbs that I couldn't shift before, have more energy throughout the day and still eat lots. It's just about eating the right stuff and getting the timing right.

meanredspider

nibby wrote:

It supposed to help with the adaptation of pulling what you need from your fat stores which we apparently have plenty! well I have anyway!!

This is the bit I don't get. How is that supposed to work? No-one has managed to explain it yet

jane90

Hi Ugo,

It looks to me like the timing of your carbs isn't optimised for weight loss. You don't need to be eating so many carbs early in the day, especially not for breakfast. If you were to substitute a pro-fat, high protein breakfast (eg a cheese omelette) you'll be switching on the enzymes that cause your body to burn a greater proportion of fat rather than glycogen at any given intensity, during your 50 minute ride. You won't be in danger of bonking, but I'd be very surprised if you bonked during such a short ride anyway. The reason why Nigel Mitchell recommends large bowls of porridge in the morning is that his riders are usually going straight out on long 3-4 hr rides and they need the slow-release energy, which obviously doesn't apply to most of the rest of us.

Rather than a second porridge, you might consider natural yoghurt, hummus and/or nuts, instead, and if you must have potato at lunch, perhaps you could substitute a sweet potato, which is lower GI, (a salad with good fats such as avocado, feta cheese and olive oil would be better still).

I hope that helps, good luck!

slowbike

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Slowbike wrote:

Good luck you'll soon be back to my weight

Is that a threat?

Cheeky sod ... I weigh less than you do ....

ugo.santalucia

Slowbike wrote:

Cheeky sod ... I weigh less than you do ....

You don't wear it well... try Rapha...

ugo.santalucia

jane90 wrote:

Hi Ugo,
perhaps you could substitute a sweet potato, which is lower GI, (a salad with good fats such as avocado, feta cheese and olive oil would be better still).

I hope that helps, good luck!

I'd love that... but it's hard to find a sweet potato in a canteen

bobmcstuff

I found that simply moderating my calorie intake during the week (about 1500cal on a non-exercise day, 2000cal on a cycling/other exercise day) worked pretty well, I've lost 12kg this year now (76kg from 88kg). Obviously combined with doing more exercise but it looks like you're doing quite a bit anyway. Given you're starting from a better position than I was your plan in OP looks fine to me

Then at weekends I was able to succumb to the temptations of Friday beers and so on without feeling too guilty (plus doing a big ride at least one day at the weekend).

I should say I found 1500cal pretty difficult to deal with to begin with but I got used to it - just takes a bit of determination.

Diamant49

meanredspider wrote:

nibby wrote:

It supposed to help with the adaptation of pulling what you need from your fat stores which we apparently have plenty! well I have anyway!!

This is the bit I don't get. How is that supposed to work? No-one has managed to explain it yet

I don't get it either (and agree with your follow-up post) - lots of anecdotes, but what is the science behind it? Any good scientific studies that demonstrate that training on a low carb diet or fasted state "trains" the body to burn fat? Its what we (mostly) do at rest - my understanding is that endurance training itself results in more mitochondria in the trained muscle - which results in a higher proportion of fat being utilised at a given % VO2 max - but that this is regardless of training fasted or not.

When people report long training runs on an expresso or handful of nuts, what intensity are they training/riding at? I used to do this sort of thing 30+ years ago, based on some books aimed at runners - complete fast every Saturday and c.50 miles+ training. Seemed ok at the time (but I was 18/19), but not so sure now and no idea if I would have been better to have eaten as normal.

The important thing ultimately is calories in have to be less than calories out - so any calorie restricted diet will result in weight loss (I suspect low carb diets have an initial edge over low-fat diets, as most people massively underestimate their carb intake - I know because as a diabetic on an insulin pump I measure my carb intake at every meal, snack etc.).

However, the biggest risk on a low carb diet (aside from bonking) is that your body can start to utilise muscle protein in place of carbohydrate - you want the majority of weight loss to be fat, fairly obviously. Best to trim back by a few hundred calories per day at most, and keep the cycling intensity up - much as per Ugo plans.

Having said that, my NHS dietician wants me to eat over 400g of carbohydrate per day on average - which I just cannot do! About 275g on average - and maybe touching 400g when on a longer ride, or period of hard (for me) back-back rides.

meanredspider

Yes - as a diabetic, you'll understand this. I learned a lot working in the R&D organisation of a blood glucose testing company and insulin pump manufacturer. That's why I want to understand at least some theory about why riding fasted should help burn fat. The other issue (for those of us that work) is that sugars help your brain function so you don't want to let your blood sugar level get too low during the day. On the other side of the equation, you are trying to avoid triggering an insulin response by boosting your blood glucose levels too high (hence the eating little and often) and the peaks and troughs created. Throw into the mix that we are all different and none of us responds in the same way and it all gets pretty complex. Even the espresso hit each morning will have a diminishing impact. Personally that's why I'm a great believer in just smaller portions.

diy

5:2 worked for me. though i did it to reduce my cholesterol. been on it and 6:1 for well over 2 years. I've done all my PBs on fasting days. its easy because its only 1 or 2 days a week. you'll get to target weight in a month. You can train hard on it as long as you keep it under 2 hours on fasting days. Don't be fooled in to thinking exercise can deliver weight loss. It can but you need something like 5-6 hours per lb. just got my first cold in two years. 5:2 made me feel amazing. cured so many life/stress issues.

nibby

Diamant49 wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

nibby wrote:

It supposed to help with the adaptation of pulling what you need from your fat stores which we apparently have plenty! well I have anyway!!

This is the bit I don't get. How is that supposed to work? No-one has managed to explain it yet

I don't get it either (and agree with your follow-up post) - lots of anecdotes, but what is the science behind it?

I haven't a clue what the science is behind it or how/why it works for me but it does. The guy who recommended it is a sports nutritionist and must be doing something right as he's helped a few pro tour teams in the last couple of years.

Probably not with the same advise as he has given me as I wanted to shift a bit of weight but more important keep a good energy level throughout the day and something seems to be working as I've done both.

Everyone is different though so what works for one person wont for another I suppose.

Dippydog3

diy wrote:

5:2 worked for me. though i did it to reduce my cholesterol. been on it and 6:1 for well over 2 years. I've done all my PBs on fasting days. its easy because its only 1 or 2 days a week. you'll get to target weight in a month. You can train hard on it as long as you keep it under 2 hours on fasting days. Don't be fooled in to thinking exercise can deliver weight loss. It can but you need something like 5-6 hours per lb. just got my first cold in two years. 5:2 made me feel amazing. cured so many life/stress issues.

I agree on the 5:2. Its not a fast really, its just a day of restricted eating. I have now used it for about 18 months off and on, and have lost 20kg.

And I eat like a pig on lots of non fast days.

Works for me.

ugo.santalucia

Dippydog3 wrote:

I agree on the 5:2. Its not a fast really, its just a day of restricted eating. I have now used it for about 18 months off and on, and have lost 20kg.

And I eat like a pig on lots of non fast days.

Works for me.

I already said I am not interested in a fasting type diet and I think it's still my thread, if that matters... you were clinically obese clearly, I am not... I only need to trim 3 Kg, which I think is doable without fasting or using extreme methods. Besides, onc you abandon your 5:2, you go back eating like a pig 7/7... I'd like to find an eating regime which is sustainable long term

fudgey

Its probably of no help but if i ride to work, which is maybe once or twice a week then i never have breakfast as i simply dont get up early enough!
I have a few routes i can take to work, i managed 11.5 miles 3 times last week in just over 30 mins and once took a 17 mile route home the other two was pressed for time so was the 11.5 again.

At work i have shredded wheat for breakfast and a mug of tea, no sugar. Same for lunch with a banana or apple for either morning break and afternoon break. Then get home and have dinner.

Last week the wife and kids were away and i wasnt having dinner till late 8pm or later (steak and veg, no potatoes - wife is a veggie so i made the most of having ,eat lol) and didnt snack at all.

Now she is home we are back to having dinner circa 5pm and back to snacking in the evenings!

I have had the road bike 6 months and gone from 12st-12 to 12st-12st1 so a reasonable weight loss that has stayed off. I reckon i have another half to 1 stone i can loose to be pretty trim but for the last few weeks have not lost any weight at all. Although i think my legs look slightly bigger!

I gave up all alcohol 8 months ago so that has cut a few calories off, but i just cant seem to drop any more weight.

I guess the only answer is a strict diet that i am not all that arsed about as i love a curry etc. just try and eat sensibly during the week and get out on the bike more.

arran77

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Science aside...

day 2 and I lost 300 grams... so there... 8)

Weighing yourself after going for a crap is cheating :P

Good work though, you'll soon be as light as me

diy

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I already said I am not interested in a fasting type diet and I think it's still my thread, if that matters... you were clinically obese clearly, I am not... I only need to trim 3 Kg, which I think is doable without fasting or using extreme methods. Besides, onc you abandon your 5:2, you go back eating like a pig 7/7... I'd like to find an eating regime which is sustainable long term

Neither was I and you don't stop you go 6:1 or keep the 5:2 its not primarily about losing weight its about reducing the risk indicators. Its a lifestyle diet. All you are doing is getting by on 25% of your RDA a day a week if you like, its a very small change in your lifestyle which makes it easy to sustain. If you take 1500 -2000 kcal out you'll drop a very modest 3/4 lb per week.

but if you are closed to the idea you are closed to the idea. I just find it annoying when people see it as the latest fad diet like atkins etc.

team47b

meanredspider wrote:

nibby wrote:

I would try just an espresso a few days a week before commute then eat the porridge when you get into work. It will help with taking energy from your fat store which is a good thing.

Please could you explain this to me as, from what I understand, this doesn't make sense. As soon as you start exercising reasonably hard, your liver kicks glycogen into your bloodstream. I've heard it said that pros use this technique to simulate the multi day racing scenario. In general terms, it's still calories in vs calories out, wherever you burn it from. Riding slowly will help the fat burning adaptation provided you ride long enough - that won't really help weight loss just improve your endurance. All I see riding fasted will do is cause you to burn your glycogen stores more quickly. Without good glycogen stores, you struggle to exercise as you need some glycogen to burn fat (hence the bonk).

You burn varying combinations of glucose, fat and glycogen, if you set off without eating you will burn up the small amount of glucose in your system which although as you know will prevent you burning fat and you will be running on glycogen, the only advantage of doing this is that when you stop exercising and eat carbs, these will be absorbed immediately to re-stock your glycogen store and so cannot then be stored as fat because the insulin response will not convert the glucose to fat. Free carbs is the result.

So you could say this is the scientific reason for riding without eating and then eating your carbs after exercise, although it is still more efficient to burn fat than to try and reduce the fat stored by the insulin response.

meanredspider

team47b wrote:

You burn varying combinations of glucose, fat and glycogen, if you set off without eating you will burn up the small amount of glucose in your system which although as you know will prevent you burning fat and you will be running on glycogen, the only advantage of doing this is that when you stop exercising and eat carbs, these will be absorbed immediately to re-stock your glycogen store and so cannot then be stored as fat because the insulin response will not convert the glucose to fat. Free carbs is the result.

So you could say this is the scientific reason for riding without eating and then eating your carbs after exercise, although it is still more efficient to burn fat than to try and reduce the fat stored by the insulin response.

Good in theory but it's not that easy to restock your glycogen. More likely, you will restock a bit of it. Then, the following day, you will have less glycogen store and so on. Until day 3 or 4 you really will be running on empty. Personally, the only way I can see this working is to ride really slowly so that you minimise glycogen burn and maximise fat burn. But I still don't really see where the fasting comes in. For me it's counterproductive to burn the glycogen at any point if you don't have to. I think of glycogen like the radio controlled racing car I had as a kid. The NiCd battery used to last about 15 minutes and then take 4 hours to recharge.

nibby

I wouldn't call it fasting as you eat straight after. Fasting to me would be not eating anything at all before or after.

Manc33

Pea drinks. 250g peas blended with a little olive oil, 1 garlic clove. I lost a ton of weight after having one of those for breakfast and not eating anything afterwards. "I'd pass out" you might think, but there's something to the saying "eat your greens" and you're provided with a lot of nutrition, that's my only guess as to how I am never really hungry and can "use" them to have a really low calorie meal. I'm lighter than you Ugo. :P A few months back I wa sa lot heavier.

If you get on the pea drinks (people call it soup) and you don't lose weight, you can do anything (ban me etc). I used them to have like a 300 calorie drink, but noticed I was managing to "get by" on it for a surprisingly long time. I admit some days I feel weakish, but its what it takes to lose fat, for me at least. :roll: I'm not 25 anymore.

DavidJB

Fudgey wrote:

At work i have shredded wheat for breakfast and a mug of tea, no sugar.

People that eat cereal in the office should be shot.