And now Max Iglinskiy done for EPO

dolan_driver

I wonder is Vincenzo frantically searching for the eject button? Is there a berth on another WT squad for him at this late stage in proceedings?

DD.

The_Boy

Joelsim wrote:

More trouble for those good folks of Astana including the Italian contingent and some who have moved on

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/06-12-2 ... 8040.shtml

Any chance of a precis? I'm finding google translate is just too much to deal with today.

blazing_saddles

The_Boy wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

More trouble for those good folks of Astana including the Italian contingent and some who have moved on

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/06-12-2 ... 8040.shtml

Any chance of a precis? I'm finding google translate is just too much to deal with today.

The Padua investigation has concluded.
Documents have now been forwarded to the UCI, which
implicates Vino and several other Astana riders as Ferrari clients.
How extensive the evidence is, who knows?

The_Boy

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Joelsim wrote:

More trouble for those good folks of Astana including the Italian contingent and some who have moved on

http://www.gazzetta.it/Ciclismo/06-12-2 ... 8040.shtml

Any chance of a precis? I'm finding google translate is just too much to deal with today.

The Padua investigation has concluded.
Documents have now been forwarded to the UCI, which
implicates Vino and several other Astana riders as Ferrari clients.
How extensive the evidence is, who knows?

Cheers. Interesting times.

joelsim

I suspect they only met up with him for a Berocca.

mm1

Mother of the idiot up the duff again? Oh dear.

iainf72

Blazing Saddles wrote:

How extensive the evidence is, who knows?

Hasn't the word been there is a lot of forensic financial stuff in there, as well as voice / video recordings

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

How extensive the evidence is, who knows?

Hasn't the word been there is a lot of forensic financial stuff in there, as well as voice / video recordings

The dossier is 550 pages according a source on VR.
Popovych caught on a phone tap saying he had no "product" at home. Did that come from the investigation?


They also have completed a translation of the article:

Black shadow of Ferrari over Astana

...

The Padua doping investigation is now approaching the finish line after four years of work, consisting of over 500 pages of documents that relate to some athletes, especially cyclists. Some weight has been added by Alex Schwazer [Italian Olympic athlete DQ'd for doping in 2012] in his interrogation of 20 November, judged "collaborative and credible" by the authorities ...

Schwazer told prosecutors of a 2010 gathering on Mount Teide in the Canary Islands ... : "One day before I was due to leave, Ferrari received me in a room to measure my weight. I remember that at that time Ferrari had this handwritten sheet on which were the names of Garzelli, Francesco Masciarelli, Bertagnolli and me, with the weight of each next to the names. I personally saw Garzelli, Francesco Masciarelli and Bertagnolli at the hotel in those days." However, he pointed out that Ferrari never gave him doping substances.

Three of those riders were already on file, named in the statement of ... Volodymyr Bileka as clients of Ferrari. ... [That process] led to the USADA investigation ... [and] the collaboration of Leonardo Bertagnolli [as] one of the key witnesses in the investigation that nailed American Lance Armstrong. Stefano Garzelli and Francesco Masciarelli were not however mentioned at that time.

Finally, in his deposition Schwazer states that Ferrari received a phone call during one of their meetings from Enrico Franzoi, Italian cyclo-cross champion and former U23 world champion, which could constitute "frequenting a doctor banned from practice in sports". Now it will be seen how these latest filings will toughen criminal dossier of CONI, which had already received some of the documents, having overcome the prolonged distrust of the Padua investigators.

That dossier may yet grow if it includes the names of Alexander Vinokourov and several of his companions from Astana, who were also part of the "stable" of Michele Ferrari. This material should also have been part of the UCI file in a decision by 10 December on whether to grant a licence to the team of Vincenzo Nibali and Fabio Aru, decimated by five positive cases (three of which were in the "Continental" team) in recent weeks and still waiting on a WorldTour place.

andrewjoseph

frenchfighter wrote:

Alright I've had enough of your one-eyed ramblings. You are now on temporary block so I don't have to waste my time reading your comments on this subject.

Is that the equivalent of sticking fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and singing 'lalala can't hear you, lalala' ?

tailwindhome

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng · 14m14 minutes ago
Gazzetta dello Sport says investigators have photos of Dr Ferrari's visit to Astana's Montecatini pre-season camp last year, h/t @cyclingpro

The_Boy

Is their any suggestion as to who the 90-odd cyclists mentioned in the dossier handed to CONI are?

Coach H

Don't worry everyone Ekimov has vouched for them http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ekimov- ... ur-licence

sherer

although once again it seems only cyclists are mentioned in these reports. Yes we know he offers "training advice" to a lot but i'm sure he must also work with other athletes too

joelsim

As someone has just written on VR. Nibali has said he has never met Ferrari, it will be interesting to see just how many times they've never met.

blazing_saddles

TailWindHome wrote:

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng · 14m14 minutes ago
Gazzetta dello Sport says investigators have photos of Dr Ferrari's visit to Astana's Montecatini pre-season camp last year, h/t @cyclingpro

The Shark about to be netted?
Somehow, I think Aru's rapid progession curve will be flat lining next season.

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... 013-148384

RichN95.

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Shark about to be netted?

Unlikely. Nibali is the one rider that Gazzetta have made clear isn't involved.

Isn't a lot of this tax evasion rather than doping anyway?

No_Ta_Doctor

If I were Ferrari I'd have a lucrative sideline in "wire some cash or I'll come and visit your team hotel" running :-D

tailwindhome

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Shark about to be netted?

Unlikely. Nibali is the one rider that Gazzetta have made clear isn't involved.

Isn't a lot of this tax evasion rather than doping anyway?

Follow the money?

frenchfighter

RichN95 wrote:

Isn't a lot of this tax evasion rather than doping anyway?

Yes, at least what I have read anyway - a pretty large sideline that was (is).

The_Boy

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Shark about to be netted?

Unlikely. Nibali is the one rider that Gazzetta have made clear isn't involved.

Isn't a lot of this tax evasion rather than doping anyway?

On the second point, isn't one the result of the other? It just so happens that the tax evasion is how the riders have been rumbled.

The insistence that Nibali sin't involved is interesting, though. There has been a lot of talk that there are basically two teams at Astana, granted, but would it be cheeky to suggest that an Italian paper might not be that keen to break a story about an Italian TdF winner meeting up with Ferrari?

joelsim

The_Boy wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

The Shark about to be netted?

Unlikely. Nibali is the one rider that Gazzetta have made clear isn't involved.

Isn't a lot of this tax evasion rather than doping anyway?

On the second point, isn't one the result of the other? It just so happens that the tax evasion is how the riders have been rumbled.

The insistence that Nibali sin't involved is interesting, though. There has been a lot of talk that there are basically two teams at Astana, granted, but would it be cheeky to suggest that an Italian paper might not be that keen to break a story about an Italian TdF winner meeting up with Ferrari?

Obviously the best way of winning is just to dope the domestiques rather than those in with a chance.

nic_77

frenchfighter wrote:

A couple of questions I have already asked you:
do his performances since he was beating the best of them in his teens to the present day (where he has achieved his best result - 5th in Tour working as semi-leader) look doped to you?
what is the main reasoning these uci experts are giving that you have absolute faith in?

OK, so if we can't accept legally endorsed, peer reviewed science as evidence, it sounds like we are back to spotting dopers based on suspicious looking performances.

On that basis, I trust we can agree that Condator is bang to rights... dancing with Rasmussen one minute, struggling to keep pace with a 'clean' Roman K the next.

Good luck with your hypocrisy.
or trolling

frenchfighter

nic_77 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

A couple of questions I have already asked you:
do his performances since he was beating the best of them in his teens to the present day (where he has achieved his best result - 5th in Tour working as semi-leader) look doped to you?
what is the main reasoning these uci experts are giving that you have absolute faith in?

OK, so if we can't accept legally endorsed, peer reviewed science as evidence, it sounds like we are back to spotting dopers based on suspicious looking performances.

On that basis, I trust we can agree that Condator is bang to rights... dancing with Rasmussen one minute, struggling to keep pace with a 'clean' Roman K the next.

Good luck with your hypocrisy.
or trolling

Yes you are trolling, especially as the evidence counter is "peer reviewed science", it is not like he has got his three cousins to come up with some arguments for him and those arguments reference old wife's tales. Your next point is not even worth responding to.

andyp

One of Kreuziger's referenced studies was written by Dr Roberto Corsetti, who was the team doctor at Fasso-Bortolo, and who Tom Danielson referenced in his USADA testimony as part of the team wide doping regime on that team. So his choice of experts might not be his three cousins, but they aren't exactly the neutral scientists you might expect.

ddraver

trouble with this thread is that both Frenchie and Joel are approaching it from equally irrational positions....

frenchfighter

Andy, you cherry pick one. What does that prove? That you are trying to find something to support your view.

Note page 46 onwards. Note the study he references and the people conducting it. Note what the study shows.
http://kreuziger.a1.esports.cz/wp-conte ... Report.pdf

The UCI suggested he go for Boer.

frenchfighter

ddraver wrote:

trouble with this thread

Is this thread in trouble?




Do you have an opinion on the matter or simply an opinion on the opinions expressed in the thread?

nic_77

frenchfighter wrote:

nic_77 wrote:

frenchfighter wrote:

A couple of questions I have already asked you:
do his performances since he was beating the best of them in his teens to the present day (where he has achieved his best result - 5th in Tour working as semi-leader) look doped to you?
what is the main reasoning these uci experts are giving that you have absolute faith in?

OK, so if we can't accept legally endorsed, peer reviewed science as evidence, it sounds like we are back to spotting dopers based on suspicious looking performances.

On that basis, I trust we can agree that Condator is bang to rights... dancing with Rasmussen one minute, struggling to keep pace with a 'clean' Roman K the next.

Good luck with your hypocrisy.
or trolling

Yes you are trolling, especially as the evidence counter is "peer reviewed science", it is not like he has got his three cousins to come up with some arguments for him and those arguments reference old wife's tales. Your next point is not even worth responding to.

Whilst it's tempting to read the various studies referenced by Roman's lawyers - I'll leave that to the experts. I suggest you do the same.

Nonetheless, whilst we are trading references I assume you have familiarised yourself with this one?

http://inado.org/uploads/3/1/2/9/312943 ... ssport.pdf

The biological passport scheme is not some mickey mouse kangaroo court dreamed up to inconvenience 'your boys' - it is a peer reviewed, legally proven concept. If Roman is innocent of a breach then that will be the outcome.

blazing_saddles

It's covered in far more detail, here:
http://cyclingtips.com.au/2014/12/ferra ... am-to-sue/

According to the Gazzetta story, Ferrari attended the team hotel thirteen months ago. Unbeknownst to the team, so too did anti-doping investigators, who reportedly have photographs of the doctor talking to various members of the team.

But I have to quote this bit from the good doctor, since it'll probably earn him a spot on Frenchie's "my boys" team.

“Up to a few years ago I coached some of the Astana athletes, including Vinokurov: it has never been a secret, we never hid anything, we attended training venues where there were many other athletes, all in broad daylight. Curiously Teide or St. Moritz, back then “suspicious” locations as defined by the very UCI, have now been “cleared” and are more popular than ever with cyclists and teams above any suspicion…”

The final line refers to training by Team Sky and others at that location.

frenchfighter

It's been covered on the 53x12 thread.