Marmotte 2015
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Just found this about the new route through a dutch forum, does anyone know if this is a reliable source?
http://bike-oisans.com/fr/agenda-cyclo-vtt-oisans/la-marmotte0 -
Ahhh. I know the one you mean, the turn off from the road up to les Deux Alpe. I'll throw some gravel tyres in my bag and take a look.davidof wrote:The "old" road arrives 100 meters below le Cuculet ...
If they won't let me on the boat next time I go that way I'll try it on 700x25s.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Just found this about the new route through a dutch forum, does anyone know if this is a reliable source?
http://bike-oisans.com/fr/agenda-cyclo-vtt-oisans/la-marmotte
a much more interesting route than the standard Marmotte. You cut out all the Galibier BDO crap and get the wonderful Montvernier, Mollard and Croix de Fer climbs as a bonus. The section from St Sorlin to the Col de la Croix de Fer will break some people.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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Just found this about the new route through a dutch forum, does anyone know if this is a reliable source?
http://bike-oisans.com/fr/agenda-cyclo-vtt-oisans/la-marmotte
a much more interesting route than the standard Marmotte. You cut out all the Galibier BDO crap and get the wonderful Montvernier, Mollard and Croix de Fer climbs as a bonus. The section from St Sorlin to the Col de la Croix de Fer will break some people.
For sure it increases the amount of hairpins in the route, saw the Mollard also has a lot! The last part of the Galibier is beautiful but definitely nice to not have the flat section to get there and not having the Telegraphe is also not the end of the world.0 -
That site is run by the local tourist board. Should be authorative.raymond82 wrote:Just found this about the new route through a dutch forum, does anyone know if this is a reliable source?
Well spotted.0 -
Just found this about the new route through a dutch forum, does anyone know if this is a reliable source?
http://bike-oisans.com/fr/agenda-cyclo-vtt-oisans/la-marmotte
Yes that is genuine, it's the offical bike-friendly website of the Oisans tourist board.
There we have it then. Montvernier, Mollard and Croix de Fer instead of Telegraphe and Galibier.0 -
Harder or easier lads?0
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Blimey, how on earth is it another website can post the updated route and not the official one???
The is a link to a proposed course map as well!
Just glad it's still on!0 -
Perhaps Sport Communication think they should check everything first - if you look at the programme you'll see that we're starting at 7am on the 3rd and finishing on the 4thpechacheli wrote:Blimey, how on earth is it another website can post the updated route and not the official one???
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I'd say slower. The descents won't be as fast as off the Galibier / Lautaret. And less scope for sitting on a group along the Maurienne valley.Harder or easier lads?0 -
For sure it increases the amount of hairpins in the route, saw the Mollard also has a lot! The last part of the Galibier is beautiful but definitely nice to not have the flat section to get there and not having the Telegraphe is also not the end of the world.
big plus for the Mollard is that it is largely in the shade on the steeper lower sections, more than the Tele. Both Montvernier and Mollard will have to be on closed roads I think as the roads are pretty much single track. The village of St Sorlin is a bit of a dump but the climb after to the Croix de Fer is nice and very spectacular. Overall I prefer the CdF to the Galibier.
Big thing is water. There is a fountain on the left in St Sorlin but it always seems to be a trickle or dry when I go thru. There is a good fountain in Albiez les Jeune at the cross roads in the village by the phone box. This is around halfway and a good place to fill up. The road down from le Mollard has been resurfaced and is nice and quick as is the run up to St Sorlin. There is also a fountain after the Glandon in St Columban by the tourist office.
From the base of the Glandon to the start of the lacets de Montvernier still worth getting in a peloton. Ditto from the descent of Montvernier to the start of the Mollard climb. You also have a flat from the Glandon over to the Grand Maison dam. The riding is arguably more technical than the true Marmotte.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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I'm pretty sure the old road did not go to Cuculet* as when the water is very low in the lake you can see remnants of the road and the old bridge in the middle. Then on the Bourg side of the dam you can see the old road too.
I found this fascinating old photo which sort of confirms the the above - in that what you can see when the lake is low is the old ramparts of the road on the other side (left of picture)
Anyway I probably will go exploring on my cross dresser week after next.
*plus it's bonkers steep!0 -
I'm pretty sure the old road did not go to Cuculet* as when the water is very low in the lake you can see remnants of the road and the old bridge in the middle. Then on the Bourg side of the dam you can see the old road too.
I found this fascinating old photo which sort of confirms the the above - in that what you can see when the lake is low is the old ramparts of the road on the other side (left of picture)
Anyway I probably will go exploring on my cross dresser week after next.
*plus it's bonkers steep!
The road used to follow the line la Rivoiran, Garcin and Chatelard to reach Bons and Mont de Lans via a stone gate at Bons. You'll see this marked as the "roman road" on IGN maps. Worth checking out on your bike if you get the chance. The gorges de l'Infernet were impassible.
As you mention the lake was just a river before the dam. From Mont de Lans you could descend to the Romanche and cross over the bridge around where you see in your picture and then follow the road to Mizoens, Besse and the Plateau d'Emparis or continue on a road on the left bank of the Romanche. Alternatively you could go via le Cuculet to reach this same road. The road continued all the way to la Grave on the left bank of the Romanche via the village of le Dauphin rather than the more modern route on the right bank. The current track on the left bank of the lake follows some of the path of the original Briancon -> Grenoble road. Maybe that is why some locals call it the "old road".BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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I'd come across that photo while Googling around. But I couldn't place it. I don't think it's the Tunnel du Chambon we know today. My guess is that it's the arch you pass thru just before the turn off to Les Deux Alpes at the dam (heading towards the Lautaret). But wherever it is, it's on the left (south) bank. And the road would have continued on the south side of the river (now lake) following the fork left off the Deux Alpes road.I found this fascinating old photo ...
Something to explore during Marmotte week.0 -
I'd come across that photo while Googling around. But I couldn't place it. I don't think it's the Tunnel du Chambon we know today. My guess is that it's the arch you pass thru just before the turn off to Les Deux Alpes at the dam (heading towards the Lautaret).I found this fascinating old photo ...
Yes it is there, the photographer was standing in the Gorges. I think Gavin says that though - he's looking at the ramparts on the left of the picture (right bank of the Romanche).
Here's another photo
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"an original thinker… the intellectual heir of Galileo and Einstein… suspicious of orthodoxy - any orthodoxy… He relishes all forms of ontological argument": jane90.0
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It says departing the 4th of July? Surely that's not right?
Edit: It was me being stupid!0 -
What about:
Up Glandon descend to La Chambre as usual then up the spectacular Lacets de Monvernier, hang a right descend via le Chatel to St Jeane to Maurienne then up the Croix to Fer, down the Glandon and up the Alpe.
May be 15-20km shorter than the usual but about 5,300m of vertical gain
Do I win a prize ?? 0 -
Much harder route than the normal one in my opinion. There is a greater number of climbs with more gradient variations that will zap the legs.0
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Croix De Fer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqK9s1epBqw
Glandon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDU69B5Iw3o&list=PLrvATbUmwCQSaSxFYq45_tiMWb-JYEEqK&index=8
Montvernier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=160qwlWGyWU
Mollard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SWkBA8w8U8
Are these some of the same climbs we will be doing?0 -
This morning's Dauphine, I'd say the chances of it being open for the Tour stage are zero!
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Much harder route than the normal one in my opinion. There is a greater number of climbs with more gradient variations that will zap the legs.
I don't know the entire route - I haven't done the Mollard or the Lacets DV but from what I do know I agree it looks a fair bit harder. Had a look at the route someone had stuck up on one of the mapping sites and contrary to what sport communication have on their website it is closer to 5.5k metres of climbing not 5000 compared to well under 5000 for the old route - they might not be accurate figures but taken from the same mapping site so a good chance they are at least consistent. Add in that the roads look a bit narrower and less consistent in gradient and I can see it adding a decent chunk to the finishing times.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
I think it is a bit easier as a course but more attractive.
The SC figures look about right to me. There is less flat and more climbing but the climbing is gentler and the overall altitude of the Croix de Fer is 600 meters less than the Galibier, which makes a difference. The Mollard is a shaded climb, which will help on a hot day. The lacets de Montvernier road is narrow and could cause some gridlock but hopefully the field will have thinned out a bit by then. I would assume both the Montvernier and Mollard climb will have to be closed to any road traffic.
The climbs are:
Glandon: 1300m
Montvernier/Ventour: 325m
Mollard: 1125m
XdeFer: 850m
ADH: 1100m
And just to confirm I road the Glandon, Lacets, Mollard, Croix de Fer loop a bit earlier this season and it was about 2350m on my computer (barometric readings).
These are my thoughts having ridden all the climbs on the route
http://www.trainingloops.com/marmotte-route-change.htm
and the climb profiles
http://www.trainingloops.com/marmotte-2015-revised-route.htm
I'm not doing the Marmotte, I will be riding the Italian lakes that week.BASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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I notice that tomorrow's (Sunday's) stage of the Dauphine takes in the Lacets de Montvernier. There's every chance the start of ITV 4's live coverage might catch that if Imlach pulls his finger out.0
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This morning's Dauphine, I'd say the chances of it being open for the Tour stage are zero!
does it say when that picture was taken?
I have to say I would tend to agree with you re the Tour...
I see there was also a landslide on the Lautaret road last night0 -
And there's video... http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2015/06/13/sous-le-tunnel-du-chambon-un-chantier-titanesqueThis morning's Dauphine, I'd say the chances of it being open for the Tour stage are zero!
does it say when that picture was taken?
I have to say I would tend to agree with you re the Tour...
I see there was also a landslide on the Lautaret road last night
And from the Isère Département:
"Démolition de la portion de voûte réussie
Les opérations de démolition par micro-minage ont eu lieu ce 10 juin après-midi. Les premières observations à l’intérieur du tunnel indiquent que cette démolition est réussie." (The demolition by mini digger took place on the afternoon of 10 June. First indications in the interior of the tunnel are that the demolition was successful.)0 -
There seem to be six people in the tunnel watching one man working in that video. Reminds me of Bernard Cribbins: https://youtu.be/yShvgXZQBTsBASI Nordic Ski Instructor
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There seem to be six people in the tunnel watching one man working in that video. Reminds me of Bernard Cribbins: https://youtu.be/yShvgXZQBTs
I don't think there is anyone in that digger. You'd have to be nuts to operate machinery under that. :shock: I reckon those guys with the hard hats are taking a big enough risk as it is.0 -
I think it is a bit easier as a course but more attractive.
The SC figures look about right to me. There is less flat and more climbing but the climbing is gentler and the overall altitude of the Croix de Fer is 600 meters less than the Galibier, which makes a difference. The Mollard is a shaded climb, which will help on a hot day. The lacets de Montvernier road is narrow and could cause some gridlock but hopefully the field will have thinned out a bit by then. I would assume both the Montvernier and Mollard climb will have to be closed to any road traffic.
The climbs are:
Glandon: 1300m
Montvernier/Ventour: 325m
Mollard: 1125m
XdeFer: 850m
ADH: 1100m
And just to confirm I road the Glandon, Lacets, Mollard, Croix de Fer loop a bit earlier this season and it was about 2350m on my computer (barometric readings).
These are my thoughts having ridden all the climbs on the route
http://www.trainingloops.com/marmotte-route-change.htm
and the climb profiles
http://www.trainingloops.com/marmotte-2015-revised-route.htm
I'm not doing the Marmotte, I will be riding the Italian lakes that week.
Just like to say thank you for putting that together. Very informative and gives a real insight on what to expect. Cheers.0 -
+1Just like to say thank you for putting that together. Very informative and gives a real insight on what to expect. Cheers.If you still don't know what recursion is, read this sentence.0
