TDF Stage 13: St Etiennie - Chamrousse *spoiler*

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Comments

  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    RichN95 wrote:
    Pinot's time on the climb was the same as Menchov and Kloden. I expect 'Professor' Vayer to mention this in his next article.
    Of course not, new generation French riders dont mutate
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    the article don wrote:
    I must say, as a relative newcomer to watching pro cycling I couldn't really understand all the Valverde hate. Before today. What a bell end.

    Dodgy drug use apart, he put one over on a competitor. Every second counts; i fail to see how a feint is anything other than a legitimate tactic. Perhaps the preference is individual time trials up a series of hills.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    adamfo wrote:
    Coachb wrote:
    Good to see Nibs destroy Sky again. Someone mentioned Wiggins :lol: and again :lol: Nibs already beat him into submission at the Giro :lol:
    Was it only me who saw Valverde attack ...are you lot blind as well? Yes you are. At least Valverde was in a position to make a challenge. If that was ex doper Millar riding like that none of you would have a problem :roll:
    Bunch of haters.

    Contador was in such good form and it would have been exciting to see if he could have chased down Nibs.
    Froome lost time in a couple of stages last year. He would have got another beating just like the one Contador and Talansky gave him at the Dauphine.
    Brillaint stuff from Nibs and I hope Valverde gets a podium.

    Very enjoyable apart from no Bertie.

    Porte and Thomas were rubbish. Podium :lol:

    It's only last month Froome was handing out the beatings to Nibali

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_C-SoEqVLU

    He was falling off last month too. Perhaps thats what he needs to work on to become a complete rider :)
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Oh and he fell off so he isn't there so stop trying to diminish Enzo.

    Enzo has never been the diminutive of Vincenzo... so that you know... :wink:

    My boyfriend certainly thought it was.
  • powerbookboy
    powerbookboy Posts: 241
    RichN95 wrote:
    the article don wrote:
    I must say, as a relative newcomer to watching pro cycling I couldn't really understand all the Valverde hate. Before today. What a bell end.
    There are a few reasons.

    The main one is doping. But not really the doping itself. Many dopers get caught, come back and are appreciated. With Valverde it took four years to nail him. He used every legal loophole and trick to avoid justice for four years, while cycling in races and getting rich. That's mostly what annoys people. He's also a horrible wheelsucker - but that's racing isn't it. (But it would be nice if idiots recognised that and didn't make him out to be otherwise.)

    If you've got a weapon, use it. It might be unsporting, but compared to his pharmaceutical adventures...
  • overlord2
    overlord2 Posts: 339
    I'm waiting for September 2014 when Nibali gets caught for 'a blood abnormality'.

    And be given Valverde :lol:

    Yep the tdf is now clean folks

    :wink:
  • powerbookboy
    powerbookboy Posts: 241
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Chamrousse
    2014:18,3 km@7,3%---50:00---average speed 21.96 km/h(Vincenzo Nibali)
    2001:18,3 km@7,3%---47:46---average speed 22.99 km/h(Lance Armstrong)-RECORD
    ---48:07---average speed 22.82 km/h(Roberto Laiseka)
    ---48:35---average speed 22.60 km/h(Jan Ullrich)
    ---48:51---average speed 22.48 km/h(Joseba Beloki)
    ---49:14---average speed 22.30 km/h(Oscar Sevilla)

    NOTE: 2001 was a 34km MTT.

    I'm very glad that Bertie didn't take yellow today as you said he would in previous posts. It would have required a performance greater than Armstrong in 2001, which I think we can all agree would be... contentious at best.

    I'd like to think he'd have got 20-30secs at best and just chipped away. I'm a huge fan of Contador's super-human efforts, but not the extra-terrestrial ones...
  • RideOnTime
    RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    powerbookboy wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Chamrousse
    2014:18,3 km@7,3%---50:00---average speed 21.96 km/h(Vincenzo Nibali)
    2001:18,3 km@7,3%---47:46---average speed 22.99 km/h(Lance Armstrong)-RECORD
    ---48:07---average speed 22.82 km/h(Roberto Laiseka)
    ---48:35---average speed 22.60 km/h(Jan Ullrich)
    ---48:51---average speed 22.48 km/h(Joseba Beloki)
    ---49:14---average speed 22.30 km/h(Oscar Sevilla)

    NOTE: 2001 was a 34km MTT.

    I'm very glad that Bertie didn't take yellow today as you said he would in previous posts. It would have required a performance greater than Armstrong in 2001, which I think we can all agree would be... contentious at best.

    I'd like to think he'd have got 20-30secs at best and just chipped away. I'm a huge fan of Contador's super-human efforts, but not the extra-terrestrial ones...

    I just can't help thinking that may be Armstrong was taking summat, you know :cry:
  • curium
    curium Posts: 815
    Coriander wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Oh and he fell off so he isn't there so stop trying to diminish Enzo.

    Enzo has never been the diminutive of Vincenzo... so that you know... :wink:

    My boyfriend certainly thought it was.
    Ciro Scognamiglio from Gazzetta says that Vincenzo is known as Enzo at home.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    As someone points out, Nibali's performance has to be put in perspective. His strongest opponent, Valverde, is someone who was at his best around 9 years go (remember when he pipped Armstrong to claim a stage in Courchevel?)... Porte is a domestique, third in line in his team in the mountains and Pineau is a promising young rider that nobody would have put on the podium in June.

    He is doing what he did last year at the Giro, where again he didn't have real opposition. In his current form he can match Contador and would probably still be be dropped by last year's Froome and possibly even Quintana.
    left the forum March 2023
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Is this more 'man wins TdF convincingly ergo definitely doping' chat?

    Either come up with some evidence beyond the favourite riding faster than his competitors in a race, or shuttup.
    _
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    curium wrote:
    Coriander wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    ContrelaMontre wrote:
    Oh and he fell off so he isn't there so stop trying to diminish Enzo.

    Enzo has never been the diminutive of Vincenzo... so that you know... :wink:

    My boyfriend certainly thought it was.
    Ciro Scognamiglio from Gazzetta says that Vincenzo is known as Enzo at home.

    That was my point, my Calabrian boyfriend was known as Enzo, short for his full name of Vincenzo. It's an utterly normal and commonly used diminutive of Vincenzo.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    As someone points out, Nibali's performance has to be put in perspective. His strongest opponent, Valverde, is someone who was at his best around 9 years go (remember when he pipped Armstrong to claim a stage in Courchevel?)... Porte is a domestique, third in line in his team in the mountains and Pineau is a promising young rider that nobody would have put on the podium in June.

    He is doing what he did last year at the Giro, where again he didn't have real opposition. In his current form he can match Contador and would probably still be be dropped by last year's Froome and possibly even Quintana.

    Perhaps Enzo's most underestimated skill is making people underestimate him; 'Sussurrando Cerchi'. Dominant in all terrains, yet you need to see him take the TT to be convinced?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    All the Southerners called Vincenzo I know of, use Vince' as a diminutive (with an accent at the end, french way)... Enzo is a full name in his own right...

    http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Biagi
    left the forum March 2023
  • Coriander
    Coriander Posts: 1,326
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    All the Southerners called Vincenzo I know of, use Vince' as a diminutive (with an accent at the end, french way)... Enzo is a full name in his own right...

    http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enzo_Biagi

    That it's a full name in its own right doesn't prohibit it from also being used as a diminutive. See also Polly, Maggie, Sam ad finitum in English.
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    the article don wrote:
    I must say, as a relative newcomer to watching pro cycling I couldn't really understand all the Valverde hate. Before today. What a bell end.

    Dodgy drug use apart, he put one over on a competitor. Every second counts; i fail to see how a feint is anything other than a legitimate tactic. Perhaps the preference is individual time trials up a series of hills.
    Of course it is a legitimate tactic as is taking the ball into the corner at the end of a football match in order to waste time. Just because a tactic is legitimate doesn't make it admirable. And how does one reconcile the use of this particular tactic by someone who had been spouting off about how he wasn't going to settle for second place but would go all out for the win?
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,710
    I watched Kittel finishing on Avondetappe last night.
    He looked totally cooked. Be lucky to finish inside hors delay, today.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    the article don wrote:
    I must say, as a relative newcomer to watching pro cycling I couldn't really understand all the Valverde hate. Before today. What a bell end.

    Dodgy drug use apart, he put one over on a competitor. Every second counts; i fail to see how a feint is anything other than a legitimate tactic. Perhaps the preference is individual time trials up a series of hills.

    It's dishonest, that's what (some) people object to. Don't sit on the wheel and lie that you're too tired to pull then sprint off like a donkey with a hot poker up it's bottom (poor donkey :( ). If he had taken his turn, then attacked from behind then that's a completely different matter.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    OPQS wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    the article don wrote:
    I must say, as a relative newcomer to watching pro cycling I couldn't really understand all the Valverde hate. Before today. What a bell end.

    Dodgy drug use apart, he put one over on a competitor. Every second counts; i fail to see how a feint is anything other than a legitimate tactic. Perhaps the preference is individual time trials up a series of hills.

    It's dishonest, that's what (some) people object to. Don't sit on the wheel and lie that you're too tired to pull then sprint off like a donkey with a hot poker up it's bottom (poor donkey :( ). If he had taken his turn, then attacked from behind then that's a completely different matter.

    Pineau's point was that it was stupid, not sneaky. If they'd worked together Valv might have got 30s over everyone else, rather than 3 on Pineau.
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,031
    Yes but Valverde is maybe more concerned about Pineau than most of those behind them. If he works with Pineau then Pineau puts 30 seconds into him in the last 3-4k that's not a good day for Valverde. I think Pineau probably was slightly stronger if you'd put them both in a solo time trial up that mountain.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    Is Pineau a diluted Pinot?
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    Valverde can't work with another rider... he showed it last year at the worlds... where he ended up looking like an idiot for not chasing down Rui Costa... he is a selfish rider, he's always been and built a career out of doing little work and pipping people on the line.... there you go, I said it.... :mrgreen:
    left the forum March 2023
  • inseine
    inseine Posts: 5,788
    OnYourRight wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    Dodgy drug use apart, he put one over on a competitor. Every second counts; i fail to see how a feint is anything other than a legitimate tactic. Perhaps the preference is individual time trials up a series of hills.
    Agreed. If Pinot doesn’t like towing Valverde up a mountain all he has to do is stop or drop him. Not that towing Valverde anywhere should overly bother Pinot. His irritation was misplaced. He should have concentrated on his own race. The idea that Valverde had lots of spare power to contribute anyway is hard to countenance.

    Pinot 24, Velverde 34. He has a bit to learn and his time will come. He probably put a bit too much into the break when there was just four of them.
    http://cyclinganddesign.blogspot.fr/
  • DeadCalm
    DeadCalm Posts: 4,235
    Pinot's Strava from the stage:

    http://www.strava.com/activities/167613567

    Max speed of 97.2km/h. Presumably he's managed to get over his descending issues then.
  • RideOnTime
    RideOnTime Posts: 4,712
    Macaloon wrote:
    Is Pineau a diluted Pinot?

    Bit of grigio in the Pinot.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    DeadCalm wrote:
    Pinot's Strava from the stage:

    http://www.strava.com/activities/167613567

    Max speed of 97.2km/h. Presumably he's managed to get over his descending issues then.

    The Team took him out in a car to show him how to get around the corners quickly and safely. He's a different rider on descents now.
  • OPQS
    OPQS Posts: 187
    Macaloon wrote:
    Is Pineau a diluted Pinot?

    Pineau is a regional French aperitif, made in the départements of Charente, Charente-Maritime and, to a much lesser extent, Dordogne in western France. While popular within the region of production, it is less well known in other regions of France and somewhat uncommon abroad.

    It is a fortified wine (mistelle or vin de liqueur), made from a blend of lightly fermented grape must and Cognac eau-de-vie.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pineau_des_Charentes

    We brought about 20 bottles home from our list visit to the region. It's best drank well chilled. Lovely!
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    I think Valverde sitting in was more him just reverting to type rather than a thought out tactic. He would've been better working with Pinot and putting time into the other riders around him (and, you know, restricting the advantages of the yellow jersey...) but instead he just did what he always does. Piti - you gained 3 seconds on Pinot, score!
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Pinot:
    "I rode a good stage but I didn't take enough time off the rest," he said. "We didn't get on very well with Valverde, it's a shame. He kept in my wheel, he said he was full gas and he attacked me. It was his tactics. He wanted to take time off me."

    Madiot:
    "He rode a great last climb. He had the legs to do it because he attacked early, too early maybe. But if everybody keeps patient, nothing will ever happen. Valverde rode cunningly, he pretended he was dead and then shot back. Vice is part of the game."
    Contador is the Greatest
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    By contrast, Bardet thanked TJ at the finish:
    SPTDW7153-660x440.jpg

    Here is a photo leading Pinot:
    SPTDW7421.jpg
    Contador is the Greatest

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