Oh what a surprise!

foy

Now now boys calm down, if any of you have a tandem i may come for a ride with you and i will be your stoker for the day around delamere forest ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Giraffoto

foy wrote:

Now now boys calm down, if any of you have a tandem i may come for a ride with you and i will be your stoker for the day around delamere forest ha ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A tempting offer, I'm sure, but I'm quite a way from Delamere Forest, and I maintain you'd be better off shopping around a bit. To give me some clues, how tall are you? What sort of bike do have now, and what size is your frame? Does it seem about right?

foy

kona kula 17 inch, i am 5ft 6ins and 28 inch inside leg with long upper body, the kona fits me like a glove but i just fancy something newer and a change. Trek do a 16 or 18 in the 26 inch range but the 16 is too short on the top tube and the 18 inch is no good on standover height. Even a 15.5 inch 29 er rockhopper is no good on standover height. Might be better to just do a brand new build as i love the standover height and length on the kona. Cheers anyway if you ever get up north anytime maybe we could meet up for a ride?

CitizenLee

Building your own bike from the ground up is almost as fun as riding the finished product. Do it

lbalony

foy wrote:

Mr or Mrs or Miss lot of balony, if you wish to comment on my thread then please take the time to read it thank you! Give leisure lakes a ring and they will confirm that the bike will be for sale at £1200 when the bike becomes available in around a months time. xxxxxxxxxx

Do you have a link to a spec sheet? The one I found looks pretty good comoared to other good frame 29ers at that price point. I.e trek, giant, scott, cannondale etc. not budget/kia equivelent bikes like your boardmans, carerras etc.

lbalony

Miss 'loy of balony'? Lol!!!!!!

foy

You are having a laugh, sunrace sprockets and tektro disc brakes on a £1200 hardtail. The boardman at £650 is a similar spec and the frames are made in the same factory in taiwan by merida. If you think that the boardmans are bad bikes you have very little knowledge of the bike industry as they win gold awards from the bike testers on a yearly basis.

supersonic

This is the Evo Pro spec:

FRAME
Specialized A1 SL Aluminum, EVO 650b geometry, fully butted tubesets, ORE downtube, tapered headtube, forged dropouts w/ disc mount, replaceable alloy derailleur hanger



FORK
RockShox XC32 TK, Solo Air spring, 32mm stanchions, tapered alloy steerer, TurnKey damping w/ lockout, external rebound adjust, 15mm thru-axle, size-specific 100/120mm travel



HEADSET
1-1/8" upper, 1-1/2" lower, Campy style, integrated sealed cartridge bearings



STEM
Specialized 3D forged alloy, 4-bolt, 6-degree rise, anti-corrosion hardware



HANDLEBARS
Specialized, low rise, double butted 6061 alloy, 9-degree backsweep, 5-degree upsweep, 15mm rise, 31.8mm



GRIPS
Specialized Body Geometry XC Contour, Kraton w/ gel, lock-on, closed end



FRONT BRAKE
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic disc, resin/metallic pads



REAR BRAKE
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic disc, resin/metallic pads



BRAKE LEVERS
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic, tooled reach adjust



FRONT DERAILLEUR
SRAM X5, 2x10, high mount



REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X9 Type 2, 10-speed, medium cage



SHIFT LEVERS
SRAM X5, 2x10, trigger



CASSETTE
Sunrace, 10-speed, 11-36



CHAIN
KMC X10, 10-speed, reusable Missing Link



CRANKSET
Specialized Stout XC, 2x10, 36/22, anti-corrosion hardware



BOTTOM BRACKET
GXP for 2 pc., 73mm



PEDALS
Composite platform, w/ reflectors, 9/16"



RIMS
Stout XC, 650b disc, alloy double-wall, pin joint, 26mm inner width, 32h



FRONT HUB
Specialized Hi Lo disc, alloy, sealed cartridge bearings, 15mm thru-axle, 32h



REAR HUB
Specialized Hi Lo disc, alloy, RCC bearing system, QR, 32h



SPOKES
Stainless, 14g



FRONT TIRE
Specialized Ground Control Sport, 60TPI, wire bead, 650bx2.3"



REAR TIRE
Specialized Ground Control Sport, 60TPI, wire bead, 650bx2.3"



INNER TUBES
Standard, presta valve



SADDLE
Body Geometry mountain, steel rails, 143mm



SEATPOST
Alloy, 2-bolt, micro-adjust, 12.5mm offset, 30.9mm



SEAT BINDER
Command Post, single bolt, 34.9mm

supersonic

not budget/kia equivelent bikes like your boardmans, carerras

Frames are all made by Merida - Specialized included (Merida part own Spesh). Infact the Boardmans are often lighter than the equivalent Rockhopper, as are top end Carreras.

lbalony

foy wrote:

You are having a laugh, sunrace sprockets and tektro disc brakes on a £1200 hardtail. The boardman at £650 is a similar spec and the frames are made in the same factory in taiwan by merida. If you think that the boardmans are bad bikes you have very little knowledge of the bike industry as they win gold awards from the bike testers on a yearly basis.

Made in the same factory by the same maker does not mean that the same r&d, materials and design have brought about the 2 frames to the same spec. Irrelevant of bike industry its the manufacturing industry what dictates this. Boardmans, canyons, voodoos etc do win awards and get good reviews, but this is based on how it rides, the package and price etc. but if the frames was purely reviewed not just by ride, but by science and build quality I don't think the same frames would win. Its no secret that Canyons, boardmans etc are poorer frames but with high spec to temp customers. In car terms, corsas and kias win awards but are they better than an Audi or Bmw? The worst choice I ever made in biking was buy a mid range canyon based on spec.

Each to there own. My opinion probably isn't everyones just as your isn't too. To me buying a bike isnt because of reviews (something I pay no attention too for good reason) but if it comes with xt mech and slx brakes it doesnt make it a quality purchase. Things like the bottom bracket, the headset and the frame are often overlooked.

Tektro brakes are not bad. Ive seen the 2015 ones, the look alot like saints levers and probably copied of them. They look good and feel good. Whats wrong with suntace? Everyone used to slate suntour but there epicon air forks are great.

When your a biker your not bothered about spec but the ride & full package in my opinion!

lbalony

supersonic wrote:

This is the Evo Pro spec:

FRAME
Specialized A1 SL Aluminum, EVO 650b geometry, fully butted tubesets, ORE downtube, tapered headtube, forged dropouts w/ disc mount, replaceable alloy derailleur hanger



FORK
RockShox XC32 TK, Solo Air spring, 32mm stanchions, tapered alloy steerer, TurnKey damping w/ lockout, external rebound adjust, 15mm thru-axle, size-specific 100/120mm travel



HEADSET
1-1/8" upper, 1-1/2" lower, Campy style, integrated sealed cartridge bearings



STEM
Specialized 3D forged alloy, 4-bolt, 6-degree rise, anti-corrosion hardware



HANDLEBARS
Specialized, low rise, double butted 6061 alloy, 9-degree backsweep, 5-degree upsweep, 15mm rise, 31.8mm



GRIPS
Specialized Body Geometry XC Contour, Kraton w/ gel, lock-on, closed end



FRONT BRAKE
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic disc, resin/metallic pads



REAR BRAKE
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic disc, resin/metallic pads



BRAKE LEVERS
Tektro Gemini Comp, hydraulic, tooled reach adjust



FRONT DERAILLEUR
SRAM X5, 2x10, high mount



REAR DERAILLEUR
SRAM X9 Type 2, 10-speed, medium cage



SHIFT LEVERS
SRAM X5, 2x10, trigger



CASSETTE
Sunrace, 10-speed, 11-36



CHAIN
KMC X10, 10-speed, reusable Missing Link



CRANKSET
Specialized Stout XC, 2x10, 36/22, anti-corrosion hardware



BOTTOM BRACKET
GXP for 2 pc., 73mm



PEDALS
Composite platform, w/ reflectors, 9/16"



RIMS
Stout XC, 650b disc, alloy double-wall, pin joint, 26mm inner width, 32h



FRONT HUB
Specialized Hi Lo disc, alloy, sealed cartridge bearings, 15mm thru-axle, 32h



REAR HUB
Specialized Hi Lo disc, alloy, RCC bearing system, QR, 32h



SPOKES
Stainless, 14g



FRONT TIRE
Specialized Ground Control Sport, 60TPI, wire bead, 650bx2.3"



REAR TIRE
Specialized Ground Control Sport, 60TPI, wire bead, 650bx2.3"



INNER TUBES
Standard, presta valve



SADDLE
Body Geometry mountain, steel rails, 143mm



SEATPOST
Alloy, 2-bolt, micro-adjust, 12.5mm offset, 30.9mm



SEAT BINDER
Command Post, single bolt, 34.9mm

What price GBP is this?

lbalony

supersonic wrote:

not budget/kia equivelent bikes like your boardmans, carerras

Frames are all made by Merida - Specialized included (Merida part own Spesh). Infact the Boardmans are often lighter than the equivalent Rockhopper, as are top end Carreras.

Yeah I know and then boardman frames are super light for Aluminium. But I bet thats exactly why they fail more. I couldn't personally put a Boardman frame in the same category as a specialised frame. Theres alot of hidden stuff and design that we wont know about. Basically Boardman will look at whats working and try to emulate that. Specialized will try to move things forward with design and ideas. The big 3 have always been expensive its nothing new.

In the 90s everyone wanted a marin as for 300 quid you got nothing bit you got an all singing dancing carrera, nothings changed!

Angus Young

lbalony wrote:

foy wrote:

To me buying a bike isnt because of reviews (something I pay no attention too for good reason)...

What "good reason" would there be for completely dismissing the opinions of people who ride more bikes (often back to back) than the rest of us put together?

lbalony

Angus Young wrote:

lbalony wrote:

foy wrote:

To me buying a bike isnt because of reviews (something I pay no attention too for good reason)...

What "good reason" would there be for completely dismissing the opinions of people who ride more bikes (often back to back) than the rest of us put together?

Quite a few reasons. I used to love them and listen to them when I was getting back into the sport. Don't get me wrong I still read them but make my own decision based on their facts. At the moment I run tyres that only score a 3/5. But I've tried there 5 star rated tyres and I really disliked them. I went back to my personal best and it helped my riding. Hence my opinion isnt the reviews opinion because id of rated them the opposite way round. My Canyon, i ordered it based on trail bike of the year. But it had a badly welded and poor quality frame. I learnt then that cost was factored into the review. It was a downgrade from my 700 quid Trek. I have bought other stuff based on reviews but found it wasn't for me and there reasons are not the be all and end all. I ride a fair bit but I expect they ride harder than faster than me but how can that be an even measure of whats good for me? These tests take place and do you think alit of manufacturers even send them a bike for testing? Ever wondered why there not in the line up? The reviews are about getting best for a price point and getting more into biking to generate sales, which in turn effects there advertising revenue and subscriptions. If a bikes fun cheap and well specced, the chances are it has won. But can you honestly say thats the best bike. If they was all sprayed black and cost was removed would you say the winners would still win? Reviews are good for beginners but after a while its time to use your knowledge and make your own mind up. In my opinion. I work in engineering and see a lot of reviews about certain products and we wonder how its ended up rated as such. But you look a bit deeper and theres a conflict of interest and some mutual achievement from the review. Test ride bikes and do your homework. Don't relay on well paid easily swayed journalists with agendas.

rockmonkeysc

Reviews can only be taken as a rough guide. What one person thinks is a great ride another might really dislike. There's a lot of personal preference, thats where demo rides come in.

Angus Young

Not suggesting their word is gospel. But to completely dismiss the reviews (especially with the old "They're all on the take..." lazy B.S.) rather than using them as one source of information amongst many that you bring to bear when making a buying decision is not only daft but rather arrogant, too. And to blame the reviews because you didn't have your eyes open when you read them is no better, either.

batmo

I think reviews are more helpful if you know a bit about the reviewer and their tastes, you don't necessarily have to agree with them. For example, I knew if Barry Norman hated a film it would likely turn out to be one of my favourites...

Angus Young

Batmo wrote:

I think reviews are more helpful if you know a bit about the reviewer and their tastes, you don't necessarily have to agree with them. For example, I knew if Barry Norman hated a film it would likely turn out to be one of my favourites...

On that note, I really like Mark Kermode as a film reviewer yet I disagree with what he considers a good film on many, many occasions. He actually thinks Skyfall is a well written film, yet what I saw was one of the worst written films I've had the displeasure to have sat through. Abysmal! Still want to hear what he's got to say, though.

supersonic

Its no secret that Canyons, boardmans etc are poorer frames

What are you basing this on?

I couldn't personally put a Boardman frame in the same category as a specialised frame.

I'd take the Boardman on any bike less than 2 grand. The hardtails especially, lighter, more extensively butted.

neilus

Im far from an expert but ive always believed that with Specialized - more than other brands - youre paying for the name meaning the spec leaves a lot to be desired, as appears to be the case with this model.
But im curious, does this pay-for-the-name/crappy spec apply accross the range, the Enduro/Stuntjumper bikes? Where I live in Austria and im out in the woods I swear every second bike i see is a Stuntjumper. Is it just a bit of a "punter" brand?

felix.london

over here too (French Alps) - Spesh is by far the most popular brand, at least half the bikes you see are Spesh and most of those are Stumpy's...just very good marketing I'm guessing (is an awesome bike though)

neilus

Hmm could it be that they have a strategy of under-speccing the entry level models? This would make sense, as those in the market for "a first decent MTB" in all probability lack to product knowledge to know whats what and this, in combination with the buzz from having a "proper" mountain bike means they can shift them to rookies by the truckload. Different to people spending 2.5k who would smell a rat a mile off in terms of crappy specs. Which brings me back to my original question, do the the mid- top range Speshs represent better value for money? As I and Felix have observed theyre everywhere here "in Europe", and i cant believe so many people have been duped when theres cheaper/better choices from Ghost, Cube, Giant, Canyon etc...

njee20

Angus Young wrote:

Not suggesting their word is gospel. But to completely dismiss the reviews (especially with the old "They're all on the take..." lazy B.S.) rather than using them as one source of information amongst many that you bring to bear when making a buying decision is not only daft but rather arrogant, too. And to blame the reviews because you didn't have your eyes open when you read them is no better, either.

I wholly ignore bike reviews.

Angus Young

njee20 wrote:

Angus Young wrote:

Not suggesting their word is gospel. But to completely dismiss the reviews (especially with the old "They're all on the take..." lazy B.S.) rather than using them as one source of information amongst many that you bring to bear when making a buying decision is not only daft but rather arrogant, too. And to blame the reviews because you didn't have your eyes open when you read them is no better, either.

I wholly ignore bike reviews.

How arrogant.

rockmonkeysc

I don't think Specialized are better value for the higher priced bikes either. The Demo is about £2500 more than a similarly specced carbon Devinci Wilson. The Enduro is far too expensive when compared to it's nearest competition.

batmo

Having initially dismissed Specialized, Trek and Giant from my wishlist because other brands offered better components for the money (and also a desire for something "different"), I bought a Spesh (Camber) in the end because of all the bikes I tried, it fitted me the best.

Components can and almost certainly will be upgraded as they're replaced. My last bike lasted me 15 years, after which the frame was the only original part.

lbalony

supersonic wrote:

Its no secret that Canyons, boardmans etc are poorer frames

What are you basing this on?

I couldn't personally put a Boardman frame in the same category as a specialised frame.

I'd take the Boardman on any bike less than 2 grand. The hardtails especially, lighter, more extensively butted.

On experience and few other things. Ive seen a good few cracked Boardmans. 1 cracked Canyon. No cracked Specialized yet. From an engineering point of view the frames on spesh, giant, trek, scott etc ate better I bet if you put a boardman frame against a Specialized frame through the same fatigue and other tests in a lab the specialized would win hands down. My preference and opinion though.

lbalony

Angus Young wrote:

Not suggesting their word is gospel. But to completely dismiss the reviews (especially with the old "They're all on the take..." lazy B.S.) rather than using them as one source of information amongst many that you bring to bear when making a buying decision is not only daft but rather arrogant, too. And to blame the reviews because you didn't have your eyes open when you read them is no better, either.

Arrogant???haha. Have a read back through and try and make less assumptions.

lbalony

Why is it some threads just blow up like this? Getting back to the original post, is there a link any one has to this joke of a Specialized? Would like to see how it compares to other bikes of the same class.

rockmonkeysc

lbalony wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Its no secret that Canyons, boardmans etc are poorer frames

What are you basing this on?

I couldn't personally put a Boardman frame in the same category as a specialised frame.

I'd take the Boardman on any bike less than 2 grand. The hardtails especially, lighter, more extensively butted.

On experience and few other things. Ive seen a good few cracked Boardmans. 1 cracked Canyon. No cracked Specialized yet. From an engineering point of view the frames on spesh, giant, trek, scott etc ate better I bet if you put a boardman frame against a Specialized frame through the same fatigue and other tests in a lab the specialized would win hands down. My preference and opinion though.

I have cracked a Giant Glory, snapped the chain stay on a Giant XTC, snapped a few bottom linkages on a Giant Reign X. I have seen friends snap a linkage on a Specialized Stmpjumper and a Specialized Demo 8, I also know of three Demos which have snapped shocks. I know of various snapped chain stays on various Treks. I have never seen a session without a big dent in the ultra thin down tube.
Boardmans, Canyons etc break but so do the premium brand frames. Every frame has a weakness somewhere.