Oh what a surprise!

lbalony

foy wrote:

Specialized have released the 2015 rockhopper with 650B wheels and the new frame design is ugly. £1000 and suntour fork, tektro discs, and sunrace cassette, think these guys have totally lost the plot the specification is rubbish. They must be just selling bikes on reputation. Any opinions guys and girls.

Do you have a link to where it is listed at 1000?

lbalony

The pro is only 1200 euros

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/specialized-20 ... and-parts/

Looks pretty good.

rockmonkeysc

Angus Young wrote:

RockmonkeySC wrote:

650b just feels like 26"...

... friends who have 650b downhill bikes wish they hadn't bothered, three have gone back to 26" already.

So why do they wish they hadn't bothered and why are they switching back if they feel just the same? And why does it always sound like you're making stuff up?

Only those with downhill bikes are switching back. They are seriously fast lads who will notice differences most riders won't. Their main complaint is that the bigger wheels combined with 63 degree head angles make high speed quick direction changes difficult and acceleration is harder. They are sponsored so pay cost price for their bikes so I guess they have less to loose by switching back to last years bike.
Friends who don't race don't notice the difference but they rarely push their abilities that far.

Lewis A

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Are they 20p now? And the same size?

22p I think.

foy

Ibalony you are having a laugh £1200 for a hardtail with tektro disc brakes and a sun race cassette and the same A1 aluminium they were using in 1994. The specification is a joke, you can get a rockrider with a better spec than that for £550. This must be one of the worst bikes in the country for £1200.

paul.skibum

foy wrote:

Ibalony you are having a laugh £1200 for a hardtail with tektro disc brakes and a sun race cassette and the same A1 aluminium they were using in 1994. The specification is a joke, you can get a rockrider with a better spec than that for £550. This must be one of the worst bikes in the country for £1200.

My top tip would be......don't buy it then.

I suggest that instead of this being in mtb general it should be in buying advice. Because I cant see the point aside from advising people not to buy the bike. Has to be said the worst thing about all this is that Specialized's website doesn't even list a 27.5 version.

Giraffoto

paul.skibum wrote:

My top tip would be......don't buy it then.

Excellent suggestion. Also continue riding a bike with 26" wheels if you want to, the tyres will still be available for some time.

The Rookie

If people stopped buying the overpriced tat, then they would sort it, Spesh are a business, if people are stupid enough to buy it, then why shouldn't they sell it, it's not like they are lying about the specs!

CitizenLee

Exactly, they're not tricking anyone.

Dunno why the OP seems to have a vendetta against this particular bike. Maybe he's been saving up since 2008

njee20

Ibalony you are having a laugh £1200 for a hardtail with tektro disc brakes and a sun race cassette and the same A1 aluminium they were using in 1994

1) he said €1200, I'm guessing he's not in the UK, where have you seen that it'll cost £1200 for the same bike?
2) what's the specific issue with Tektro brakes and a Sunrace cassette?
3) it's the same material, that doesn't mean it's the same frame. They only changed to M4 in about 2005.

Chunkers1980

CitizenLee wrote:

Exactly, they're not tricking anyone.

Well, actually, they are. Branding and marketing are, if people buy them.

njee20

No, they're not. They're not saying "this is the best value bike out there". That would be tricking people. They are selling a product at a price the market will take. That's very very basic economics, not trickery, sorcery or witchcraft :roll:

CitizenLee

Chunkers1980 wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

Exactly, they're not tricking anyone.

Well, actually, they are. Branding and marketing are, if people buy them.

The spec sheet isn't a lie, so please explain how it's a trick if people know what they're getting before they part with any cash? It's not like they're advertised as coming with full XT, and then when you take delivery / unpack the bike you find out they've secretly downgraded it all.

Chunkers1980

Not so basic economics says that with perfect information, consumers will choose the best products, and the market will reward those who make the best products with higher sales - although information given by Specialised is almost perfect is doesn't mean the buyers of the bike know how to use this information to their advantage. They are blinded by the brand and the general marketing and knowing the full extent of what's on the market. I see this as where this forum can help give people 'perfect information' to help with their buying decisions.

CitizenLee

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not so basic economics says that with perfect information, consumers will choose the best products, and the market will reward those who make the best products with higher sales - although information given by Specialised is almost perfect is doesn't mean the buyers of the bike know how to use this information to their advantage. They are blinded by the brand and the general marketing.

Still doesn't sound like a trick or a lie

Plus you could say that about most markets... audio visual, technology, computing, cars, food etc etc.

You're also assuming everyone who buys a new bike doesn't do their research of know anything about what they're purchasing.

Chunkers1980

It's not a trick and a lie in the factual sense. It's about how companies manipulate the market to their advantage, large companies don't want perfect information - that way they'd only earn normal profit, they want supernormal profit.

CitizenLee

I hear you, but it's just business though isn't. Fact of modern life.

Angus Young

CitizenLee wrote:

You're also assuming everyone who buys a new bike doesn't do their research of know anything about what they're purchasing.

The vast majority of people don't.

Angus Young

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Not so basic economics says that with perfect information, consumers will choose the best products, and the market will reward those who make the best products with higher sales - although information given by Specialised is almost perfect is doesn't mean the buyers of the bike know how to use this information to their advantage. They are blinded by the brand and the general marketing and knowing the full extent of what's on the market. I see this as where this forum can help give people 'perfect information' to help with their buying decisions.

You're absolutely right with what you say here. Big companies do put out deliberately manky product knowing that their name will win the day with the uninformed (particularly when product cycles are only one year so the slight of hand is soon forgotten). I would dispute, though, whether you could accurately categorise this as a lie.

Chunkers1980

'lie' was interjected by someone else and I just used it in response. I suppose (you could categorise the 'lie' as) part of the branding is that Spec have put a lot of time, effort and $$ into making their brand seem rad, knarly and epic to name a few buzz words and that you, if you buy one of their products too, will be all those words. Which is the 'lie', you've got what you were given, and is created by the (effective) marketing if people buy the shite at the inflated price.

pesky_jones

I dont think they've "lied" or been decietfull in any way. If they released their bikes with "the top spec" or the "best gear around" than yeh, fair enough. If people just assume that it is then that is their own fault. Specialised should almost be commended (as a business) to be able to achieve this...false trust?

Chunkers1980

Pesky - no-one said they did!

pesky_jones

My bad I jumped the gun :oops:

CitizenLee

Most companies hype their products, use buzz words and try to portray some kind of image. Again, Specialized are from alone in this.

I also agree with Pesky that if people fall for marketing hype or make assumptions then it's their own fault.

njee20

Angus Young wrote:

CitizenLee wrote:

You're also assuming everyone who buys a new bike doesn't do their research of know anything about what they're purchasing.

The vast majority of people don't.

Correct, particularly those buying Rockhopper level bikes. They walk into the LBS and ask for advice, they may look at the bikes that are available and make an informed decision based on that.

Most people are not wooed by marketing or any such bollocks, they're presented with limited options and they choose based on this. It's not different to going into Homebase to buy a drill, it's not an infinite stock, there is every chance that if you take what you see at face value you will not get the best value for money. That's not to say you won't get an excellent product though. It certainly doesn't make Black & Decker deceitful!

rockmonkeysc

I expect they will sell thousands of these Rockhoppers to people buying on C2W who have no idea what's good and what's not but think Specialized is a good brand and if the Rockhopper is the best Specialized they can buy on C2W then what could be better.
Most of them probably won't even get used off road.

welshkev

RockmonkeySC wrote:

I expect they will sell thousands of these Rockhoppers to people buying on C2W who have no idea what's good and what's not but think Specialized is a good brand and if the Rockhopper is the best Specialized they can buy on C2W then what could be better.
Most of them probably won't even get used off road.

very true, my LBS sells loads of GT's (avalanche or aggressor I'm not sure) on C2W and they're poo really, but fine for someone who wants to cycle to work and have the odd ride along a canal tow path.

Ferrals

njee20 wrote:

It's not different to going into Homebase to buy a drill, it's not an infinite stock, there is every chance that if you take what you see at face value you will not get the best value for money. That's not to say you won't get an excellent product though. It certainly doesn't make Black & Decker deceitful!

Completely off topic, but the mark up at homebase is nuts. We were looking at some tiles, homebase had them for £48 per sq. m, the local independent tile merchant had them for £30!

Like pesky says Spesh (or their marketing guys) should be commended if they can increase their profit margins. Funnily enough I was reading wideopenmag last night which had a piece on the bike industry - as they point out, the clue is in the second word!!

supersonic

Most people are not wooed by marketing or any such

I see the opposite. Even with relative beginners, I get asked a lot about wheel sizes, especially 'isn't bigger better'?

Specialized's foray into 650b can be seen as giving the consumer choice. But the real reason is that their eggs in one basket approach to 29ers is petering out and they want a second bite of the cherry. Same with Giant. Same with Boardman, and even Chris himself scoffed at 650b two years ago saying it was for people who couldn't make their minds up and they wouldn't eb doing them. But as soon as one starts and they sell, the rest follow.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of choice, I have said this all along. Each wheel size has pros and cons. But the way 650b is now being pushed is not about choice, is about money.

foy

Supersonic you are spot on as always, i was in leisure lakes yesterday and was talking to one of the staff and he showed me the specification and the price of £1200 that is where i got my information from. They still offer them in a 29er for 2015 but only up to the £1000 rockhopper and i think within two years you wont be able to buy the 29ers in the rockhopper range.