Tour de France Stage 5 Ypres-Arenberg *Spoiler*

rick_chasey

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Pross

The_Boy wrote:

Do we have to do this Wiggins thing again? He isn't in the team for very good reason. The notion that he would make any marked difference to Froome staying upright, or be an unquestioning domestique to a man he clearly dislikes, or be a viable plan B is all a little bit silly, isn't it?

We'll never know will we but it looks like there's a fair chance a Plan B will be needed so let's see if Porte is up to the job.

rick_chasey

Lots of crosswinds apparently - says Peters.

adr82

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

I guess so, but now it sounds like they're feeling more and more that they'll need to rely on him - only 3 or 4 teammates came back to help pace Froome after his crash, the rest presumably stayed with Porte.

Give me more

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

joelsim

Molard, Pineau and Kristoff all crashed and off the back

above_the_cows

The_Boy wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I really don't get this attitude that the cobbles don't belong in a GT. They are as much a part of being an all round cyclist as being able to climb or TT, arguably more as the race probably went over cobbles before someone introduced the 'circus act' of sending bike riders over huge mountains. The big difference seems to be that in the last 20 years riders have decided to specialise rather than ride what gets thrown at them so virtually no GT contender has ridden cobbles. That's their choice and as a result they are less complete bike riders than in a previous era where cyclists won P-R or RVV as well as GTs. Who decided that GTs should be all about the person who can climb best whilst minimising their losses in a TT?

That said, the decision to remove sectors looks sensible if they are flooded. It's one thing to have the skills to spot hazards and negotiate them but sending riders over cobbles they can't see would be a step too far.

I agree with this to some extent, but I also don't think it necessary to see riders crashing and getting hurt in order to be entertained. You can say that riders should be able to ride everything but the reality is these days that they are specialists. To then make these specialists do things they are not prepared for and run the risk of injury in order to increase the entertainment factor and advertising revenue is a little perverse.

.

It's probably one for another thread, but if they're unprepared for the pave then they only have themselves to blame. The parcours has been known for a year, and every team in the pro peloton recces the stages these days. And nobody is stopping them riding in some of the minor cobbled races.

It's a bit like saying climbers shouldn't be expected to be able to TT or whatever (only a bit, mind).

But there is a difference between recceing the pave and making your entire cycling career about trying to win on cobbles. There's also a difference between recceing and racing and racing in the dry and racing in the wet. Between racing in a cobbled race with a bunch of specialists and racing on the pave with a GT peloton. There's also the way the sport is structured these days. You can say that the GT specialists can go and ride a cobbled race but will the teams and their sponsors want to run the risk of losing their GT thoroughbred in a crash on some cobbles? No.

I would love to see real all rounders like in yester year but I also recognise that that is not how the sport works anymore. It's the idea that we have to have these 'spectacular' stages that actually annoys me. I want to watch a whole GT with the best people, not for half of those people to disappear due to someone's desire to increase TV viewers. There's the normal attrition of a three week GT and then there's going out of your way to engineer some drama. Cycling is exciting enough as it is, you don't need to make it crazy golf.

jamie1012

I wish Kirby would stop comparing this race to the first World War.

adr82

letour ticker again:

Rudy Molard (Cofidis) and Alexander Kristoff (Katusha) are riding behind the peloton after crashing.

type:epyt

I thought it was getting a tow from your own car that was frowned upon. And they were handing out the fines left, right and centre during the Giro so I'd expect the same here.

RichN95.

curium wrote:

I'd like to see more GT stages that militate against specialists. Bring back the days of a rider capable of placing well in Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix and a GT. It would make for a more exciting season over all!

That's easy - just ban any rider from outside Belgium, France, Italy, Spain & Netherlands and cut their pay by 90%. Then you'll return to the p!ss poor talent pool that allowed such riders.

rick_chasey

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

Fair enough.

Porte high on GC is tactically useful.

above_the_cows

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

I thought he'd been a protected rider in every stage? If you read the team's comments that is what they've said.

joelsim

Rick Chasey wrote:

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

Fair enough.

Porte high on GC is tactically useful.

I had a cheeky fiver E/W on VdB last night at 66/1. The logic being that he usually comes fourth.

So if Froome is unable to continue, it stands to reason that VdB will finish, ahem, fourth.

RichN95.

Above The Cows wrote:

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

I thought he'd been a protected rider in every stage? If you read the team's comments that is what they've said.

When he crashed in Yorkshire they sent half the team back for him. So yes.

salsiccia1

Above The Cows wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I really don't get this attitude that the cobbles don't belong in a GT. They are as much a part of being an all round cyclist as being able to climb or TT, arguably more as the race probably went over cobbles before someone introduced the 'circus act' of sending bike riders over huge mountains. The big difference seems to be that in the last 20 years riders have decided to specialise rather than ride what gets thrown at them so virtually no GT contender has ridden cobbles. That's their choice and as a result they are less complete bike riders than in a previous era where cyclists won P-R or RVV as well as GTs. Who decided that GTs should be all about the person who can climb best whilst minimising their losses in a TT?

That said, the decision to remove sectors looks sensible if they are flooded. It's one thing to have the skills to spot hazards and negotiate them but sending riders over cobbles they can't see would be a step too far.

I agree with this to some extent, but I also don't think it necessary to see riders crashing and getting hurt in order to be entertained. You can say that riders should be able to ride everything but the reality is these days that they are specialists. To then make these specialists do things they are not prepared for and run the risk of injury in order to increase the entertainment factor and advertising revenue is a little perverse.

.

It's probably one for another thread, but if they're unprepared for the pave then they only have themselves to blame. The parcours has been known for a year, and every team in the pro peloton recces the stages these days. And nobody is stopping them riding in some of the minor cobbled races.

It's a bit like saying climbers shouldn't be expected to be able to TT or whatever (only a bit, mind).

But there is a difference between recceing the pave and making your entire cycling career about trying to win on cobbles. There's also a difference between recceing and racing and racing in the dry and racing in the wet. Between racing in a cobbled race with a bunch of specialists and racing on the pave with a GT peloton. There's also the way the sport is structured these days. You can say that the GT specialists can go and ride a cobbled race but will the teams and their sponsors want to run the risk of losing their GT thoroughbred in a crash on some cobbles? No.

I would love to see real all rounders like in yester year but I also recognise that that is not how the sport works anymore. It's the idea that we have to have these 'spectacular' stages that actually annoys me. I want to watch a whole GT with the best people, not for half of those people to disappear due to someone's desire to increase TV viewers. There's the normal attrition of a three week GT and then there's going out of your way to engineer some drama. Cycling is exciting enough as it is, you don't need to make it crazy golf.

I think it's you and me against the world, ATC

rick_chasey

So cobbled sections taken out means there's a lot of time to regroup after the cobbles.

Pross

adr82 wrote:

Pross wrote:

One bad race in the wet and suddenly he's 'no use'. By that rationale Froome is equally useless based on T-A 2013.

Actually that's what a lot of people seem to think (about both of them).

Yep, and it's nonsense in both cases. Wiggins didn't struggle in the rain in the Lake District on the ToB last year either. It's like the whole 'Geraint is a crap bike handler' thing. The closer to the edge you push things the more likely they are to go wrong and sometimes hurting yourself affects you for a while until you forget about how painful it was. Nibs has crashed a few times in the last 12 months and yet people still insist on saying how great a descender he is.

salsiccia1

RichN95 wrote:

curium wrote:

I'd like to see more GT stages that militate against specialists. Bring back the days of a rider capable of placing well in Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix and a GT. It would make for a more exciting season over all!

That's easy - just ban any rider from outside Belgium, France, Italy, Spain & Netherlands and cut their pay by 90%. Then you'll return to the p!ss poor talent pool that allowed such riders.

*and the crowd roared*

frenchfighter

The_Boy wrote:

Just been doing the dishes so apolgies for silly question, but has there been a loo break recently? Peloton looking a little thin.

They took one about the time you posted as Nibali pulled off. Added over a minute to the break's advantage.

mooro

Cheers for the replies, missed the Martin crash on the TV.

?30 minutes until the cobbles, more nerves as people start to get into position. Bmc / garmin looking good.

Pross

RichN95 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

I thought he'd been a protected rider in every stage? If you read the team's comments that is what they've said.

When he crashed in Yorkshire they sent half the team back for him. So yes.

Only Pate and Eisel (who was probably on his way back to the laughing group that was about to form in any case).

salsiccia1

Shamelessly stolen from the BBC ticker:

frenchfighter

Mooro wrote:

Cheers for the replies, missed the Martin crash on the TV.

?30 minutes until the cobbles, more nerves as people start to get into position. Bmc / garmin looking good.

No, they start right about now.

The_Boy

Above The Cows wrote:

The_Boy wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Pross wrote:

I really don't get this attitude that the cobbles don't belong in a GT. They are as much a part of being an all round cyclist as being able to climb or TT, arguably more as the race probably went over cobbles before someone introduced the 'circus act' of sending bike riders over huge mountains. The big difference seems to be that in the last 20 years riders have decided to specialise rather than ride what gets thrown at them so virtually no GT contender has ridden cobbles. That's their choice and as a result they are less complete bike riders than in a previous era where cyclists won P-R or RVV as well as GTs. Who decided that GTs should be all about the person who can climb best whilst minimising their losses in a TT?

That said, the decision to remove sectors looks sensible if they are flooded. It's one thing to have the skills to spot hazards and negotiate them but sending riders over cobbles they can't see would be a step too far.

I agree with this to some extent, but I also don't think it necessary to see riders crashing and getting hurt in order to be entertained. You can say that riders should be able to ride everything but the reality is these days that they are specialists. To then make these specialists do things they are not prepared for and run the risk of injury in order to increase the entertainment factor and advertising revenue is a little perverse.

.

It's probably one for another thread, but if they're unprepared for the pave then they only have themselves to blame. The parcours has been known for a year, and every team in the pro peloton recces the stages these days. And nobody is stopping them riding in some of the minor cobbled races.

It's a bit like saying climbers shouldn't be expected to be able to TT or whatever (only a bit, mind).

But there is a difference between recceing the pave and making your entire cycling career about trying to win on cobbles. There's also a difference between recceing and racing and racing in the dry and racing in the wet. Between racing in a cobbled race with a bunch of specialists and racing on the pave with a GT peloton. There's also the way the sport is structured these days. You can say that the GT specialists can go and ride a cobbled race but will the teams and their sponsors want to run the risk of losing their GT thoroughbred in a crash on some cobbles? No.

I would love to see real all rounders like in yester year but I also recognise that that is not how the sport works anymore. It's the idea that we have to have these 'spectacular' stages that actually annoys me. I want to watch a whole GT with the best people, not for half of those people to disappear due to someone's desire to increase TV viewers. There's the normal attrition of a three week GT and then there's going out of your way to engineer some drama. Cycling is exciting enough as it is, you don't need to make it crazy golf.

I'm not that bothered about a return to all-rounders of yesteryear tbh. But the fact is that Andy Schleck managed to gain time on his rivals the last time the Tour used the cobbles. Andy fucking Schleck. Cobbled races are no more of a lottery than any other stage, and GC contenders can crash out on any other stage, or any "shit, small race".

Did Frank break his collarbone because of the cobbles, or did he break in a racing incident same as any other broken collarbone? And speaking of the Schlecks, did you also agree with when they said that we shouldn't have races decided by descents?

The_Boy

Thought that twon square was flooded for a second.

above_the_cows

Pross wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Above The Cows wrote:

Give me more wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

adr82 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Just tuned in.

What's the situation? Is a sky favourite behind? Lots of work by Astana & tinkof?

Froome fell off again, was a minute down after a bike change, but is back on now. Porte is plan B for Sky apparently.

Cheers.

Porte was always plan b no?

Yes, but they are making a point of protecting him today apparently.

I thought he'd been a protected rider in every stage? If you read the team's comments that is what they've said.

When he crashed in Yorkshire they sent half the team back for him. So yes.

Only Pate and Eisel (who was probably on his way back to the laughing group that was about to form in any case).

The team has said for the last two weeks that Porte is Plan B, Porte has said he is Plan B. Porte being Plan B is not new.

mooro

frenchfighter wrote:

Mooro wrote:

Cheers for the replies, missed the Martin crash on the TV.

?30 minutes until the cobbles, more nerves as people start to get into position. Bmc / garmin looking good.

No, they start right about now.

Cool, Game on.

By the way nice sign the other day

curium

RichN95 wrote:

curium wrote:

I'd like to see more GT stages that militate against specialists. Bring back the days of a rider capable of placing well in Milan-San Remo, Paris-Roubaix and a GT. It would make for a more exciting season over all!

That's easy - just ban any rider from outside Belgium, France, Italy, Spain & Netherlands and cut their pay by 90%. Then you'll return to the p!ss poor talent pool that allowed such riders.

Actually I think Geraint Thomas (from Wales!) would benefit and the talent pool would not necessarily be any less deep. The racing would be more competitive because there are more riders suddenly able to compete.

frenchfighter

Edit to all my comments re where the cobbles are...they start at 15/20km time.