Wiggo broken hearted???
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True as Iban Mayo in 2004 found out.RichN95 wrote:Anyone who has been watching cycling for any reasonable length of time knows that drawing conclusions about Tour from the Dauphine is a largely futile exercise?
I was there as he rubbished Armstrong up the Ventoux TT and I got excited for the Tour.
Problem happened in the Tour with a puncture just before the "Pave" sections as Hincapie & Ekimov led Armstrong (and the peloton) through those sections and Mayo wasn't seen again.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
The irony amused me, is all. I wouldn't expect you to recognise it. I'm not trying to imply there was anything 'suspicious' about anyone's performances...frenchfighter wrote:Tom Dean wrote:Remarkable wrote:Janez Brajkovic won the Dauphiné ahead of Contador in 2010.frenchfighter wrote:You dont go from sub-par to hero in a few weeks unassisted.
You need to try harder than this.
FYI coming second is not sub-par. Neither is winning the overall in: Volta ao Algarve, Paris - Nice, Vuelta a Castilla y Leon and five stages (not to mention the multiple of podiums).0 -
Wiggo is mentally WEAK!morstar wrote:speshsteve wrote:self inflicted
He has definitely contributed to the situation but not sure you can lay the blame entirely at his feet. Takes two to tango and maybe he has been treated shoddily.
Were Froome not around, His career, value to and treatment by the team would probably be very different. He does need to move on asap. Fresh start needed methinks but age is against him.
We saw this side of him in the Giro before. Froome crushed him mentally and has now chased him out of the team with barely any fight back.0 -
deejay wrote:
True as Iban Mayo in 2004 found out.RichN95 wrote:Anyone who has been watching cycling for any reasonable length of time knows that drawing conclusions about Tour from the Dauphine is a largely futile exercise?
I was there as he rubbished Armstrong up the Ventoux TT and I got excited for the Tour.
Problem happened in the Tour with a puncture just before the "Pave" sections as Hincapie & Ekimov led Armstrong (and the peloton) through those sections and Mayo wasn't seen again.
I was there as well. I was staying at Avignon for a few days. It was very hot so I watched from the wooded part near the top to stay in the shade. You didn't happen to see that fat guy on a bike who just fell over sideways about an hour before the race came up. He was in serious trouble but refused all help apart from some water and got back on his bike again. We saw the ambulance go flying past shortly after. It was like watching a fat Tommy Simpson. People are crazy ....I always wondered if he made it to the top.0 -
I'd hate to cast aspersions but has anybody ever stopped to think he may geniunely have mental health or stress related issues.
Slating him for sulking, cant be arsed, hiding, not performing to his salary, mentally weak is a bit harsh.0 -
tom3 wrote:I'd hate to cast aspersions but has anybody ever stopped to think he may geniunely have mental health or stress related issues.
Slating him for sulking, cant be arsed, hiding, not performing to his salary, mentally weak is a bit harsh.
Then the people advising/exploiting him deserve even more condemnation. The last place he should be is fronting a campaign in the US, or the BBC studios talking TdF headaches. This is his main problem, not the performances on the road. Without the Tour crap he could be having a decent, if unambitious season, with big targets to come....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
tom3 wrote:I'd hate to cast aspersions but has anybody ever stopped to think he may geniunely have mental health or stress related issues.
Slating him for sulking, cant be arsed, hiding, not performing to his salary, mentally weak is a bit harsh.
Harsh but true.
(strikethrough didn't work but you get the point)Life is unfair, kill yourself or get over it.0 -
He's quoted today saying he could have continued in TdS after his crash but is now focused on the British TT champs on Thursday in Wales. I'd have thought hanging in for the TT in Switzerland might have been good prep for that.0
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iainf72 wrote:Ginsterdrz wrote:Froomy seems delicate both physically and mentally at the moment. I'm not betting on him to win in France.
I think $ky are gambling without Wiggo as backup at the TdF.
Does that mean you honestly think Wiggins could perform in the TdF? Seriously?
Are you seriously saying a fit Wiggins can't? :?0 -
iainf72 wrote:Yep, with Rich on this one. I'd even say Froome came out mentally ahead of Contador.
Don't know what race you were watching but Contador laid the gauntlet down to Froome and Froome couldnt respond. Contador even stayed on his wheel even when Froome tried his usual sprint bursts up hill, he never distanced him.
And when Contador wanted to put the hammer down he did and went ahead on 2 stages, Froome had no answer.
Ironically enough, Froome only made time on Contador in the TT prologue. Reminds me of Wiggins.
I think you need to watch the highlights of the Dauphine again.0 -
kissmyassmofo wrote:iainf72 wrote:Ginsterdrz wrote:Froomy seems delicate both physically and mentally at the moment. I'm not betting on him to win in France.
I think $ky are gambling without Wiggo as backup at the TdF.
Does that mean you honestly think Wiggins could perform in the TdF? Seriously?
Are you seriously saying a fit Wiggins can't? :?
How do you define 'perform'?
1. Finish
2. Excel in the TT(s)
3. Be a lowly domestique
4. Be a super domestique for someone he likes
5. Be a super domestique for someone he immensely dislikes
6. Compete for GC
As it's '5' in this case, I'd say a big NO.0 -
kissmyassmofo wrote:iainf72 wrote:Yep, with Rich on this one. I'd even say Froome came out mentally ahead of Contador.
Don't know what race you were watching but Contador laid the gauntlet down to Froome and Froome couldnt respond. Contador even stayed on his wheel even when Froome tried his usual sprint bursts up hill, he never distanced him.
And when Contador wanted to put the hammer down he did and went ahead on 2 stages, Froome had no answer.
Ironically enough, Froome only made time on Contador in the TT prologue. Reminds me of Wiggins.
I think you need to watch the highlights of the Dauphine again.
Agree 100%.0 -
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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The problem for Wiggins is that anything he does is going to be compared against vintage 2012 rather than any other year's results. He's stuck in that groove, like it or not. His decent results so far (Paris-Roubaix, California) plus disappointment of non-selection for the Tour, puts him in the shop window for the networking season between July and October. The question is, what's he worth to a road racing team when he's looking to build up to the next Olympics on the track as a career finale?0
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RichN95 wrote:Anyone who has been watching cycling for any reasonable length of time knows that drawing conclusions about Tour from the Dauphine is a largely futile exercise?
An interesting piece about the Dauphine on the TWICH podcast. It was actually created as a TdF preparation race (for all of us who critise the riders for using it that way.....). They mentioned that 9 riders have won it and the tour in the same year (in its 66 or thereabouts history) and all the 5 times winners have won it.0 -
argyllflyer wrote:kissmyassmofo wrote:iainf72 wrote:Ginsterdrz wrote:Froomy seems delicate both physically and mentally at the moment. I'm not betting on him to win in France.
I think $ky are gambling without Wiggo as backup at the TdF.
Does that mean you honestly think Wiggins could perform in the TdF? Seriously?
Are you seriously saying a fit Wiggins can't? :?
How do you define 'perform'?
1. Finish
2. Excel in the TT(s)
3. Be a lowly domestique
4. Be a super domestique for someone he likes
5. Be a super domestique for someone he immensely dislikes
6. Compete for GC
As it's '5' in this case, I'd say a big NO.
I would suggest he was saying 6. If you're a back up plan it implies going for the GC. And I stand by what I said, he cannot perform at that level this year.
Physically he could've done all of those other things. But if he's not at the Tour, it wouldn't be because of his form,Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
iainf72 wrote:
I would suggest he was saying 6. If you're a back up plan it implies going for the GC. And I stand by what I said, he cannot perform at that level this year.
Physically he could've done all of those other things. But if he's not at the Tour, it wouldn't be because of his form,
More than half the battle is mental though - most top level footballers for example have the ability to hit a penalty well in training but there will be those that crumple under the pressure of having to do it when it counts. As we'll see in the next week or two... Wiggo, as Froome has said, is mentally weak. I genuinely think he would be unable to commit to ride for Froome in July. He has failed in previous attempts to. Last thing CF (or the team for that matter) would want is him climbing off just before the ferry leaves Dover, leaving them a man down for the following 18 stages.0 -
Should stick wiggo in. The headlines for cycling and the tdf would be huge. I also think it would possibly mean twice the threat to contador as he looks as though it could be his year?0
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skeff10 wrote:Should stick wiggo in. The headlines for cycling and the tdf would be huge. I also think it would possibly mean twice the threat to contador as he looks as though it could be his year?
Err... have you seen much of him recently, i.e. Tour de Suisse? He's no threat to Contador and would be more of a threat to his own team leader and 'group harmony' as Brailsford puts it here this week...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcW9NqbWkhs0 -
Wiggins is a 2nd rate climber. Unless all the main contenders go down with a case of death he would not make the top 10000000000000000 infinity. Go back to the track or find some climbing drugs.0
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Is winning the TdF, several stage races and multiple Olympic medals really a sign of mental weakness?
<In best John McEnroe voice> You cannot be serious!!0 -
Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.Top_Bhoy wrote:Is winning the TdF, several stage races and multiple Olympic medals really a sign of mental weakness?
<In best John McEnroe voice> You cannot be serious!!0 -
adr82 wrote:Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.
When did BW say he wanted to go home? He didn't did he? CF said that AFAIK.0 -
Only if you take it seriously...he won it. Do the mentally weak win the TdF? No. It's a 3 week race of survival where I suggest that if you are not at the top of your game both physically or mentally, you won't win. He was able to overcome a split and acrimony within the team and still win the race; that's a sign of mental toughness in itself.adr82 wrote:
Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.Top_Bhoy wrote:Is winning the TdF, several stage races and multiple Olympic medals really a sign of mental weakness?
<In best John McEnroe voice> You cannot be serious!!
Cite a lack of enthusiasm to support Froome, a loathing of Froome, lack of form or whatever. There are many reasons why Wiggins may not be suitable for the TdF team this year but I'd politely suggest that with his palmares, lacking mental toughness isn't one.0 -
TMR wrote:adr82 wrote:Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.
When did BW say he wanted to go home? He didn't did he? CF said that AFAIK.
No, Wiggins did. Before Froome's attack too I think.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Nope, definitely Wiggins, eg http://road.cc/content/news/93418-sean- ... ris-froomeTMR wrote:adr82 wrote:Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.
When did BW say he wanted to go home? He didn't did he? CF said that AFAIK.
My point was more that while there is evidence that he can be mentally tough, there is also a lot of evidence that it's a brittle sort of toughness, and if things start going wrong he seems to find it hard to retain that mental state. Also he obviously just can't be arsed sometimes.Top_Bhoy wrote:Only if you take it seriously...he won it. Do the mentally weak win the TdF? No. It's a 3 week race of survival where I suggest that if you are not at the top of your game both physically or mentally, you won't win. He was able to overcome a split and acrimony within the team and still win the race; that's a sign of mental toughness in itself.
Cite a lack of enthusiasm to support Froome, a loathing of Froome, lack of form or whatever. There are many reasons why Wiggins may not be suitable for the TdF team this year but I'd politely suggest that with his palmares, lacking mental toughness isn't one.0 -
For Wiggins, if things are going his way, he can keep the demons at bay. He went all out to prepare for the Tour in 2012. But the wankers speech, the threat to walk out - both during 2012 TdF and the spate of abandons since (Giro, Worlds '13, TdS) then would suggest that there is fragility there when things don't go his way or he isn't interested. Even his boozing post Beijing and Tdf/Olympic Gold in 2012 shows the lack of discipline that lurks not too far beneath the surface.0
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Top_Bhoy wrote:Is winning the TdF, several stage races and multiple Olympic medals really a sign of mental weakness?
<In best John McEnroe voice> You cannot be serious!!
Yes0 -
adr82 wrote:
Is saying you want to go home in the middle of winning said TdF because a teammate did something a little silly that mildly inconvenienced you for a few seconds a sign of mental strength? He's obviously got issues.Top_Bhoy wrote:Is winning the TdF, several stage races and multiple Olympic medals really a sign of mental weakness?
<In best John McEnroe voice> You cannot be serious!!
A little bit silly? It was a pre planned attack not just in the race but also of his leadership of his team. Imagine Porte did it to Froome.0
Such cynicism, young man, such cynicism. 
