Nationals *spoiler*
Comments
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frenchfighter wrote:UK one of if not the biggest amount of starters at circa 160. (How much do you pay to enter?)
Finishers:
UK: 19 (9 mins back)
NED: 59 (8 mins back)
GER: 138 (14 mins back)
SPA: 79 (10 mins back)
FRA: 89 (15 mins back)
BEL: 104 (6 mins back)
ITA: 49 (16 mins back)
Perhaps the stupidest post among all your stupid posts. It's strange that you're so proud of your ignorance.0 -
IT'S
A
CHIPPER
:PFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
If they hadn't pulled out what was left of the peloton with a lap to go there would have been a similar amount of finishers to Italy with a similar time gap. I've never heard anyone say Italian cycling lacks strength in depth. UK cycling has more strength in depth than it has ever had at the very top level. It will have been closer until the last 5 years or so but that was because pretty much everyone was at a lower level and those few top pros we did have racing on the continent would get worked over by the home based riders.0
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frenchfighter wrote:UK one of if not the biggest amount of starters at circa 160. (How much do you pay to enter?)
Finishers:
UK: 19 (9 mins back)
NED: 59 (8 mins back)
GER: 138 (14 mins back)
SPA: 79 (10 mins back)
FRA: 89 (15 mins back)
BEL: 104 (6 mins back)
ITA: 49 (16 mins back)
The number of finishers was dictated by the finishing circuit and how the riders beyond a certain time were pulled out. Other events obviously had different circuit layouts. I thought this was all widely understood..??0 -
Imposter wrote:frenchfighter wrote:UK one of if not the biggest amount of starters at circa 160. (How much do you pay to enter?)
Finishers:
UK: 19 (9 mins back)
NED: 59 (8 mins back)
GER: 138 (14 mins back)
SPA: 79 (10 mins back)
FRA: 89 (15 mins back)
BEL: 104 (6 mins back)
ITA: 49 (16 mins back)
The number of finishers was dictated by the finishing circuit and how the riders beyond a certain time were pulled out. Other events obviously had different circuit layouts. I thought this was all widely understood..??
It is. FF doesn't even bother to understand things, he just trolls. In the other thread he's criticising races for having too many finishers.0 -
Imposter wrote:frenchfighter wrote:UK one of if not the biggest amount of starters at circa 160. (How much do you pay to enter?)
Finishers:
UK: 19 (9 mins back)
NED: 59 (8 mins back)
GER: 138 (14 mins back)
SPA: 79 (10 mins back)
FRA: 89 (15 mins back)
BEL: 104 (6 mins back)
ITA: 49 (16 mins back)
The number of finishers was dictated by the finishing circuit and how the riders beyond a certain time were pulled out. Other events obviously had different circuit layouts. I thought this was all widely understood..??
Hence the time added on there. All but 19 riders could finish within 9mins. Shocking.
Pross, there is a guy on this board who has raced with Italian amateurs and from what he says, they would be a very small distance away from the pro tour pros. They would certainly rip the legs off the majority of Brits.Contador is the Greatest0 -
Assume the difference between international pros and the domestic scene is indeed larger in the UK than in some other countries, wouldn't allowing those domestic riders to race against the international pros once a year be a good thing to help them close the gap?
(And organising more UCI races throughout the year so it's not just once a year would be even better)0 -
Well, I'm afraid I tend to agree with Frenchie's basic point, if not about the number of finishers.
I don't adhere to the course being the sole deciding factor, but also the speed raced, which the WT riders dictated.
It was simply too quick (44kph in the first 3 hours) for an organised chase. The effect being similar to echelon riding,
and much like le patron has intimated.
It's also worth noting that the 30km loop that the Italian race was staged on was significantly harder than our course.
It's also worth noting that almost the entire field consisted of WT and PC riders.
However, I would go along with what Pross has said about a number of domestic riders producing outstanding performances, in particular the U23s. Some talent there."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
No strength in depth is harsh - but fair. But the only context that that statement can be made is in relation to the top cycling nations - and Britain is still in the early days of having its World-beating cyclists and development process mean much in quality through the lower levels - but look how quickly that is changing The fact that Sky/BC have produced a Tour winning team (and dominated the track) when the Italians and French haven't produced one in donkey's shows that they have a phenomenal model. It's no good for Italy of their best-of-best can't even beat a 42 year old Yank; or for France that the best they can hope for in their national tour is some plucky stage wins...
The National Champ RR is a perfect illustration of why so much emphasis has been made of Wattage in training for elite cyclists : there's very little racing in the UK where riders can compete at a regular enough level to match the sort of weekly efforts that the Pro Tour riders get to make.
My mate, who rode yesterday, said the pace was ludicrously fast - and then they hit the hill (same as in TT). The Pro Tour guys are on another level. What can you do?0 -
Worth noting also that the Ita, Ned, Bel and Fra races were 5.255-6 hrs long. The Ger and Spa races close to 5hrs. The UK race was less than 4.5hrs.Contador is the Greatest0
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Back before Sky there used to be more finishers and the domestic teams would be able to beat up the continental pros through sheer numerical advantage. I don't think that that was an indication of greater strength in depth though. Now you just have one dominant team so the continental pros are organised.Twitter: @RichN950
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frenchfighter wrote:Worth noting also that the Ita, Ned, Bel and Fra races were 5.255-6 hrs long. The Ger and Spa races close to 5hrs. The UK race was less than 4.5hrs.
So what are you suggesting, another 20-30k and more riders having to be pulled before they can finish so as to minimise disruption to the poor old motorist - get real.0 -
EDIT0
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OCDuPalais wrote:My mate, who rode yesterday, said the pace was ludicrously fast - and then they hit the hill (same as in TT). The Pro Tour guys are on another level. What can you do?
Ride faster, as I said up above the men and women both climbed out of Monmouth, the guys in the mens race climbed it the same speed as women who finished in the bunch. Okay the women had done less up until that point and it was the most important part, but if a domestic pro doesn't care enough about finishing to keep the gap low that they'll ride up the hill slower than domestic women rider pace then I'm not sure they can have much complaint.
The circuit length was well known and while I think much too short for a road race, you ride to the course you know, if finishing was so important ride to finish. I don't personally understand why you would enter when you don't have a hope and can't help those in your team who do have a hope.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Does anyone really doubt that the depth in UK cycling remains below that of Germany, Italy, Belgium, etc? Our scene is still dominated by crit racing. Looking at CQ rankings we have just 61 'scoring' riders of whom two thirds are outside the top 1000 riders. Italy, Beligium, Spain, Germany have 100+ riders - in the case of Italy and Belgium all or nearly all of the top 100 are in the top 1000. I know CQ is just one measure but it does give you a sense of how far teh UK scene has to go to match teh long established nations in terms of depth.0
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It's come as a shock to me that we don't have the depth of Italy, Spain, France, Belgium etc. A big shock.
Froome, Wiggo, Cav, Cummings, Fenn, Stannard, Dowsett (?) all not riding doesn't help. Nor does the Tour Series.0 -
Turfle wrote:It's come as a shock to me that we don't have the depth of Italy, Spain, France, Belgium etc. A big shock.
Froome, Wiggo, Cav, Cummings, Fenn, Stannard, Dowsett (?) all not riding doesn't help. Nor does the Tour Series.
Dowsett was riding albeit not very successfully. Hopefully things are improving as the UK talent is spreading away from just Sky. I agree that the domestic scene being so biased towards crit racing really doesn't help but when it is so difficult / expensive to run a road race safely at any level it's hardly a surprise. I'd like to see the UK domestic scene comprising 3 or 4 bigger, stronger teams racing regularly in France and Belgium and aiming for Pro Conti level. That said, I remember the 90s / early 00s well enough to realise that we should be grateful for what we've got in the UK these days.0 -
Short finishing laps and overly aggressive re-opening of roads, means that the British Nationals almost always has hardly any finishers. TBH since Sky came along I think the whole thing has been a bit of a joke to be honest.
The DNS list is pretty long, what's that all about?
I note Ben Swift managed again to fail to win :roll:0 -
mm1 wrote:frenchfighter wrote:Worth noting also that the Ita, Ned, Bel and Fra races were 5.255-6 hrs long. The Ger and Spa races close to 5hrs. The UK race was less than 4.5hrs.
So what are you suggesting, another 20-30k and more riders having to be pulled before they can finish so as to minimise disruption to the poor old motorist - get real.
Er no. That on top of everything else, it wasn't as long as the other events. Had it been then maybe there would have been 10 finishers only. Which obviously is even worse.Contador is the Greatest0 -
jibberjim wrote:Ride faster, as I said up above the men and women both climbed out of Monmouth, the guys in the mens race climbed it the same speed as women who finished in the bunch. Okay the women had done less up until that point and it was the most important part, but if a domestic pro doesn't care enough about finishing to keep the gap low that they'll ride up the hill slower than domestic women rider pace then I'm not sure they can have much complaint.
To compare the pace of one road race with another on a certain part of the course is meaningless. With a TT over the entire course - maybe (Emma Pooley - arguably one of the best climbers and TT-ers in the women's peloton - would have placed 22nd with her time in the Mens U23 TT on Thursday. Laura Trott, 28th).0 -
Pross wrote:Turfle wrote:It's come as a shock to me that we don't have the depth of Italy, Spain, France, Belgium etc. A big shock.
Froome, Wiggo, Cav, Cummings, Fenn, Stannard, Dowsett (?) all not riding doesn't help. Nor does the Tour Series.
Dowsett was riding albeit not very successfully. Hopefully things are improving as the UK talent is spreading away from just Sky. I agree that the domestic scene being so biased towards crit racing really doesn't help but when it is so difficult / expensive to run a road race safely at any level it's hardly a surprise. I'd like to see the UK domestic scene comprising 3 or 4 bigger, stronger teams racing regularly in France and Belgium and aiming for Pro Conti level. That said, I remember the 90s / early 00s well enough to realise that we should be grateful for what we've got in the UK these days.
The team strength is definitely a big issue. Some teams have a rider or two that can go with some of the moves, but outside of Sky there is no team strong enough to chase down a break featuring WT riders. We had the one year where Endura put up a chase (2012 was it?), but that didn't work out too well either!
I think no matter what the course WT riders can make it selective if they want, and Sky have realised they can make it selective very early and minimise their chances of not winning.
It's always worth remembering it's the same, or worse in other countries too. FDJ uttely dominated their race, OPQS and Belkin did too (even if they didn't get the result), and then this:
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Sky riders (and now Orica, Movistar and, er…Garmin) in the National Champs will always tend to "queer the pitch" when talking of "strength in depth" in much the same way as you could argue that there's no strength in depth with the GC contenders at this year's Tour de France. Other than Astana's PR dept., who can realistically see anyone challenging Froome or Contador?
Just got to give things time to develop in the British scene.
Jon Mould has dominated a lot of domestic races this season (admittedly mostly crits) - and he looked broken by the time the race reached the finishing circuit: let's see how he develops over the next couple of years. I'd be surprised if either of the Yates bro's could have held onto that lead group yesterday if they were riding it a year ago...0 -
Turfle wrote:
What would be good is if those who respond to Frenchfighter telling him he is talking sh!t actually elaborated on why that's the case not least because we get a stream of posts telling him he's an idiot which are no more informative than his posts are.0 -
Is it just my bias or is the British national champ jersey one of the best out there? It just looks so retro and understated. I like it.0
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Yes, but the crucial difference is those teams aren't Sky, which is what is giving Frenchie his excuse to whine about everything in the UK race, as if he actually cares and isn't just trolling yet again.Turfle wrote:It's always worth remembering it's the same, or worse in other countries too. FDJ uttely dominated their race, OPQS and Belkin did too (even if they didn't get the result), and then this:0 -
That's different, adr82 - Movistar are true racers, which is why their 15th rider in their squad is leaving a gap so that the whole of the Caja Rural squad has to close it. That's the same Spanish Cunning what won them the World Champs last year...0
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Svein Tuft - massive kudos for his win at the Canadian nationals. 120km solo break!
http://www.ctvnews.ca/sports/svein-tuft ... -1.18913840 -
George Wood from Richardson's Trek ended up in 5th in the U23's in the end, very pleased for him :-)0
