Farage unravels on LBC.
Comments
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Yeah it is a fairly hypocritical stance isn't it. Hopefully if UK votes for leaving EU, they impose heavy visa restrictions on Brits as a big FU in return. (This is on condition that Scotland has extricated itself from the dumb mess of politics you have created down South by thenverylonglegs wrote:pinarello001 wrote:
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
I think Ryanair and Easyjet have debunked that statement, plenty of folk now expect to have cheap holidays in the sun whilst still having the right to decry all things foreign.
)
It is just brilliant how Scotland has remained largely unaffected by anything resembling Far Right politics. You are welcome to UKIP and your immigration 'debates' that you seem to want to have all the time.
Edit: by you, I do not mean verylonglegs0 -
madasahattersley wrote:In fact I find it disgusting the amount of anti-UKIP smears and propaganda that has suddenly flared up now that they have actually become a threat. Lots of it is just plain lies - claiming "Farage says xyz" even if he never did, and a lot of it comes from the fact that so many people think "immigration policy" equals "racism".
Yes, you're likely to disagree with some of UKIP's policies, same with every other party. Can you really have faith in any of the mainstream parties?
Oh and by the way I don't vote UKIP, I just hate the way they get treated by the media and by left wingers who don't vote for them.
Every party is fair game for that stuff. I call the UKIPs a bunch of swivel eyed loons (they are), and they call the Lib Dems a bunch of incompetent sandal wearing bearded commie hippies who are jealous of people having money.
The racist chat is an easy way handle the kind of anti-immigration chat you don't like. Objectively it often is rooted in some kind of xenophobia. Just turns out a lot of people agree with it. What happens is the UKIPs then become a vehicle for discussing what is otherwise a taboo in the UK - that quite a few people have views that are not PC. They want that to happen, and it's not necessarily the worst idea, since even here we're having that discussion.0 -
michael_roadie wrote:I voted UKIP. Not only because I agree with the main points they stand for (getting out of the EU and controlling immigration), but also because I hate what Labour stands for (socialism and big government), and the Conservatives are anything but, as they flip flop to whatever change in policy it is they think will win them votes. At least UKIP stand for something, and if you agree with them you can vote for them... the Conservatives seem to be just about retaining power, and will modify their policies as the wind blows.
It's also getting a bit tiring having UKIP constantly labelled as racist. Which of their policies are racist again?
In fairness, what policies do they have at all?
They deny the legitimacy of the previous referendum because they did not like the result, hardly democracy in action.0 -
Or... because I don't believe in being dictated to from a foreign land - the UK should be ruling itself, not kowtowing to decrees from bureaucrats who we have no control over. (I'm a foreigner/immigrant btw.) And having keenly watched the euro crisis unfold (being involved in the markets and all), it has been an absolute trainwreck and I've watched countries being dictated to by the EU, and I don't want us to be part of it. And I don't like where the EU is heading. Read "The Rotten Heart Of Europe" (written by a senior economist working in the EC at the time) for more reasons (of course you won't).nathancom wrote:
Because unsubstantiated hatred of anything foreign is trendy - stop making us have a reason for our hatred, ok?pinarello001 wrote:michael_roadie wrote:.?
Why get out of the EU?0 -
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Spot on (for oncepinarello001 wrote:nathancom wrote:pinarello001 wrote:I'll go back to this:
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.”
). From experience this is very true. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What's amazing is how the SNP has avoided the same labels as UKIP, despite having a separatist agenda and being xenophobic (against the English). Scotland has not avoided it, people just haven't recognised it yet.nathancom wrote:
It is just brilliant how Scotland has remained largely unaffected by anything resembling Far Right politics. You are welcome to UKIP and your immigration 'debates' that you seem to want to have all the time."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
michael_roadie wrote:
Or... because I don't believe in being dictated to from a foreign land .
Is that the foreign land we just held elections for?0 -
michael_roadie wrote:
Or... because I don't believe in being dictated to from a foreign land - the UK should be ruling itself, not kowtowing to decrees from bureaucrats who we have no control over. (I'm a foreigner/immigrant btw.) And having keenly watched the euro crisis unfold (being involved in the markets and all), it has been an absolute trainwreck and I've watched countries being dictated to by the EU, and I don't want us to be part of it. And I don't like where the EU is heading. Read "The Rotten Heart Of Europe" (written by a senior economist working in the EC at the time) for more reasons (of course you won't).nathancom wrote:
Because unsubstantiated hatred of anything foreign is trendy - stop making us have a reason for our hatred, ok?pinarello001 wrote:michael_roadie wrote:.?
Why get out of the EU?
Bureaucrats that uphold human rights. Bureaucrats who uphold the employment rights eroded by Thatcher in the 80's. Bureaucrats who approved money so that 3 villages on the A75 ruined by continual traffic could get a bypass. Bureaucrats who approved the monies so that the Tin mines in Cornwall that overflowed with toxic leachate spewing into rivers and lakes could be cleaned up way ahead of expectations. Bureaucrats who allow us the freedom to travel freely in Europe. Bureaucrats who allow free trade within Europe that makes our goods much more affordable. Bureaucrats who support agriculture, set aside land and minimum standards of animal welfare. Bureaucrats who have allowed me to work in a European country and have free health care. Bureaucrats who allowed me to have 27 units of blood (all from France) that saved my life under a cross Europe exchange system. Bureaucrats who defend minimum standards of welfare and health care that the Tories are hell bent on dismantling. Bureaucrats who prevent the importing of genetically modified foodstuffs. Bureaucrats who bail out struggling economies for the benefit of all. Bureaucrats who expect that each country in Europe has a minimum wage...
Better than the Bureaucrats that run this sorry country.seanoconn - gruagach craic!0 -
pinarello001 wrote:michael_roadie wrote:
Or... because I don't believe in being dictated to from a foreign land - the UK should be ruling itself, not kowtowing to decrees from bureaucrats who we have no control over. (I'm a foreigner/immigrant btw.) And having keenly watched the euro crisis unfold (being involved in the markets and all), it has been an absolute trainwreck and I've watched countries being dictated to by the EU, and I don't want us to be part of it. And I don't like where the EU is heading. Read "The Rotten Heart Of Europe" (written by a senior economist working in the EC at the time) for more reasons (of course you won't).nathancom wrote:
Because unsubstantiated hatred of anything foreign is trendy - stop making us have a reason for our hatred, ok?pinarello001 wrote:michael_roadie wrote:.?
Why get out of the EU?
Bureaucrats that uphold human rights. Bureaucrats who uphold the employment rights eroded by Thatcher in the 80's. Bureaucrats who approved money so that 3 villages on the A75 ruined by continual traffic could get a bypass. Bureaucrats who approved the monies so that the Tin mines in Cornwall that overflowed with toxic leachate spewing into rivers and lakes could be cleaned up way ahead of expectations. Bureaucrats who allow us the freedom to travel freely in Europe. Bureaucrats who allow free trade within Europe that makes our goods much more affordable. Bureaucrats who support agriculture, set aside land and minimum standards of animal welfare. Bureaucrats who have allowed me to work in a European country and have free health care. Bureaucrats who allowed me to have 27 units of blood (all from France) that saved my life under a cross Europe exchange system. Bureaucrats who defend minimum standards of welfare and health care that the Tories are hell bent on dismantling. Bureaucrats who prevent the importing of genetically modified foodstuffs. Bureaucrats who bail out struggling economies for the benefit of all. Bureaucrats who expect that each country in Europe has a minimum wage...
Better than the Bureaucrats that run this sorry country.
Bloody hell!!! You are part French!!
Sacre bleu!!0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
Spot on (for oncepinarello001 wrote:nathancom wrote:pinarello001 wrote:I'll go back to this:
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” ). From experience this is very true.
So, what exactly did you learn in Abyssinia?
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Shows what a great job Thatch did when the lefties are still whining.0
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Yep, she did a great job. Torments lefties still from beyond the grave. I think we need another 'Up yours Delors' dayBallysmate wrote:Shows what a great job Thatch did when the lefties are still whining. "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
What's amazing is how the SNP has avoided the same labels as UKIP, despite having a separatist agenda and being xenophobic (against the English). Scotland has not avoided it, people just haven't recognised it yet.nathancom wrote:
It is just brilliant how Scotland has remained largely unaffected by anything resembling Far Right politics. You are welcome to UKIP and your immigration 'debates' that you seem to want to have all the time.
It's totally different, and you know it.
And wanting self determination isn't the same as xenophobia. The xenophobia chat stems not from Brussels having some powers over all nations in the EU, but the specific free movement of labour which makes immigration into the EU much easier (and of course, emigration to other EU members).0 -
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You have to wonder what the EU has done to attract so much hatred from little ingerlanders. Did they change the shape of your weetabix or fix the Eurovision contest against us? One minute your looney UKIPers are whining about Brussels then they are whining about their homegrown politicians. Makes you think they just want to have a bit of a moan and be a bit edgy by voting for racists instead of actually trying to make their country a better place. In the same way they moan about immigrants when the most contact most have had is at the corner shop or at hospital or the local plumber, and usually they come away saying how nice that Indian or Polish or German person was. You also have to wonder what great culture is being eroded by this influx, is it the traditional Saturday night of a take away dinner, x-factor on the tv and 6 cans of misery in the fridge? Now there is something we can be proud of.0
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No they're not different and you should know it.Rick Chasey wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
What's amazing is how the SNP has avoided the same labels as UKIP, despite having a separatist agenda and being xenophobic (against the English). Scotland has not avoided it, people just haven't recognised it yet.nathancom wrote:
It is just brilliant how Scotland has remained largely unaffected by anything resembling Far Right politics. You are welcome to UKIP and your immigration 'debates' that you seem to want to have all the time.
It's totally different, and you know it.
And wanting self determination isn't the same as xenophobia. The xenophobia chat stems not from Brussels having some powers over all nations in the EU, but the specific free movement of labour which makes immigration into the EU much easier (and of course, emigration to other EU members).
Both want self determination. Neither like foreigners. Maybe for different reasons but overall the fundamenatals are the same."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
When was the last time the left won a general election in the UK?johnfinch wrote: "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
No they're not different and you should know it.Rick Chasey wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
What's amazing is how the SNP has avoided the same labels as UKIP, despite having a separatist agenda and being xenophobic (against the English). Scotland has not avoided it, people just haven't recognised it yet.nathancom wrote:
It is just brilliant how Scotland has remained largely unaffected by anything resembling Far Right politics. You are welcome to UKIP and your immigration 'debates' that you seem to want to have all the time.
It's totally different, and you know it.
And wanting self determination isn't the same as xenophobia. The xenophobia chat stems not from Brussels having some powers over all nations in the EU, but the specific free movement of labour which makes immigration into the EU much easier (and of course, emigration to other EU members).
Both want self determination. Neither like foreigners. Maybe for different reasons but overall the fundamenatals are the same.
Not quite sure how the EU is the same as three centuries of imperial rule? That's fairly fundamental.
And suggesting the English within the EU are somehow foreigners is tenuous at best.
Britain already has self determination within the EU. It has full sovereignty and is recognised is a full blown state within the EU.
It's totally different.0 -
nathancom wrote:You have to wonder what the EU has done to attract so much hatred from little ingerlanders. Did they change the shape of your weetabix or fix the Eurovision contest against us? One minute your looney UKIPers are whining about Brussels then they are whining about their homegrown politicians. Makes you think they just want to have a bit of a moan and be a bit edgy by voting for racists instead of actually trying to make their country a better place. In the same way they moan about immigrants when the most contact most have had is at the corner shop or at hospital or the local plumber, and usually they come away saying how nice that Indian or Polish or German person was. You also have to wonder what great culture is being eroded by this influx, is it the traditional Saturday night of a take away dinner, x-factor on the tv and 6 cans of misery in the fridge? Now there is something we can be proud of.
Yes of course we have no culture worth speaking of but people coming here add, in your words, "cultural vibrancy". I'm not very nationalistic but your self loathing (I assume you are British) makes me want to have you thrown in the Tower for treason. I didn't vote UKIP but I don't brand everyone that did a racist. There are issues to do with overcrowding, infrastructure, culture, employment, the democratic deficit in the EU and so on that people have genuine concerns over.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
DeVlaeminck wrote:nathancom wrote:You have to wonder what the EU has done to attract so much hatred from little ingerlanders. Did they change the shape of your weetabix or fix the Eurovision contest against us? One minute your looney UKIPers are whining about Brussels then they are whining about their homegrown politicians. Makes you think they just want to have a bit of a moan and be a bit edgy by voting for racists instead of actually trying to make their country a better place. In the same way they moan about immigrants when the most contact most have had is at the corner shop or at hospital or the local plumber, and usually they come away saying how nice that Indian or Polish or German person was. You also have to wonder what great culture is being eroded by this influx, is it the traditional Saturday night of a take away dinner, x-factor on the tv and 6 cans of misery in the fridge? Now there is something we can be proud of.
Yes of course we have no culture worth speaking of but people coming here add, in your words, "cultural vibrancy". I'm not very nationalistic but your self loathing (I assume you are British) makes me want to have you thrown in the Tower for treason. I didn't vote UKIP but I don't brand everyone that did a racist. There are issues to do with overcrowding, infrastructure, culture, employment, the democratic deficit in the EU and so on that people have genuine concerns over.
It is your UKIPer who claims that British culture is under threat. Is British culture so weak that it will be destroyed by a relatively small influx of immigrants or will it be enhanced and renewed by them as it was by the Windrush Jamaicans, or the Russian Jews or the Ugandan Gujaratis or the Poles. Attempting to turn the clock back to this idealised 'white' Britain is an act of racial and cultural cleansing that would lessen our nation, that would enervate everything interesting in the country in favour of the sterile and self centred world that UKIP inhabits. They are the ones peddling fear, fear of Europe, fear of immigration, fear of the modern world, fear of economic change, fear of anyone who isn't them, and they attract the old, the poor and the downtrodden with this manipulative message of a nostalgic return to an immigrant free 'great' Britain. All this may not be explicitly stated, but it Is constantly implied in their message and it is why the BNP vote has shifted entirely across to UKIP.
I prefer a politics that upholds the old, the poor and the downtrodden and enables them instead of feeding off their worst impulses.0 -
I would assume that was Stevo's point.johnfinch wrote:If you count Labour as the left, 2005. When's the last time the Tories won an election all by themselves? 1992. Couldn't even get a majority when faced with Gordon Brown.
Labour have not been left for decades.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
The foreign land we just held elections for, for a few representatives whose wishes can easily be ignored by the foreign majority who should have no say whatsoever in UK matters, yes.florerider wrote:michael_roadie wrote:
Or... because I don't believe in being dictated to from a foreign land .
Is that the foreign land we just held elections for?pinarello001 wrote:Bureaucrats that uphold human rights. Bureaucrats who uphold the employment rights eroded by Thatcher in the 80's. Bureaucrats who approved money so that 3 villages on the A75 ruined by continual traffic could get a bypass. Bureaucrats who approved the monies so that the Tin mines in Cornwall that overflowed with toxic leachate spewing into rivers and lakes could be cleaned up way ahead of expectations. Bureaucrats who allow us the freedom to travel freely in Europe. Bureaucrats who allow free trade within Europe that makes our goods much more affordable. Bureaucrats who support agriculture, set aside land and minimum standards of animal welfare. Bureaucrats who have allowed me to work in a European country and have free health care. Bureaucrats who allowed me to have 27 units of blood (all from France) that saved my life under a cross Europe exchange system. Bureaucrats who defend minimum standards of welfare and health care that the Tories are hell bent on dismantling. Bureaucrats who prevent the importing of genetically modified foodstuffs. Bureaucrats who bail out struggling economies for the benefit of all. Bureaucrats who expect that each country in Europe has a minimum wage...
Better than the Bureaucrats that run this sorry country.
You can paint whatever rosy picture of them you like (you think we wouldn't be capable of most of that on our own? - and I happen to disagree with your/their stance on a lot of the things you posted, for example human rights/minimum wage/state welfare/preventing importing genetically modified foods/etc.), it doesn't change the fact that we're being dictated to - even if you think they're benevolent dictators. And that is what I object to.0 -
PBlakeney wrote:
I would assume that was Stevo's point.johnfinch wrote:If you count Labour as the left, 2005. When's the last time the Tories won an election all by themselves? 1992. Couldn't even get a majority when faced with Gordon Brown.
Labour have not been left for decades.
I think Benito would count Labour as being dangerous Marxist revolutionaries.0 -
johnfinch wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
I would assume that was Stevo's point.johnfinch wrote:If you count Labour as the left, 2005. When's the last time the Tories won an election all by themselves? 1992. Couldn't even get a majority when faced with Gordon Brown.
Labour have not been left for decades.
I think Benito would count Labour as being dangerous Marxist revolutionaries.
Strange. I think that about the Tories. 0 -
Ballysmate wrote:johnfinch wrote:PBlakeney wrote:
I would assume that was Stevo's point.johnfinch wrote:If you count Labour as the left, 2005. When's the last time the Tories won an election all by themselves? 1992. Couldn't even get a majority when faced with Gordon Brown.
Labour have not been left for decades.
I think Benito would count Labour as being dangerous Marxist revolutionaries.
Strange. I think that about the Tories.
C'mon Adolf, where've you been hiding this past 69 years? 0 -
nathancom wrote:
It is your UKIPer who claims that British culture is under threat. Is British culture so weak that it will be destroyed by a relatively small influx of immigrants or will it be enhanced and renewed by them as it was by the Windrush Jamaicans, or the Russian Jews or the Ugandan Gujaratis or the Poles. Attempting to turn the clock back to this idealised 'white' Britain is an act of racial and cultural cleansing that would lessen our nation, that would enervate everything interesting in the country in favour of the sterile and self centred world that UKIP inhabits. They are the ones peddling fear, fear of Europe, fear of immigration, fear of the modern world, fear of economic change, fear of anyone who isn't them, and they attract the old, the poor and the downtrodden with this manipulative message of a nostalgic return to an immigrant free 'great' Britain. All this may not be explicitly stated, but it Is constantly implied in their message and it is why the BNP vote has shifted entirely across to UKIP.
I prefer a politics that upholds the old, the poor and the downtrodden and enables them instead of feeding off their worst impulses.
Just as a point of fact it isn't a relatively small influx of immigrants, it is a huge influx unparalleled in history which is changing the nature of many cities and building distinct ethnic/ religious communities within our country because the rate of immigration and the nature of some of the groups coming here is higher than that which can be assimilated within the broader British culture. It is the poor and downtrodden who pay the price because they are the ones who can't afford to leave the areas most affected. You should be aware that many many second and third generation immigrants feel immigration is out of control because again they are disproportionately in the areas suffering the most upheaval from it.
Very few have a problem with some level of immigration but your argument seems to be opposing totally free movement ofpeople makes you a racist. Taken to its logical conclusion do you really think we should have totally open doors ? If not for all your talk the only difference between your opinion and that of those you condemn is a matter of degree.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
We don't have totally free movement of people, so what are you complaining at exactly? How has your life been affected? Or are you just another person who blames the difficulties of life on this unnamed mass of immigrants.
And finally, who is going to pay the taxes to keep this country running?0 -
You seem happy to call people racist simply for wanting a limit on immigration, so I am asking you whether you want no limit at all.
As for what affect it has had, I listed a number of areas that it impacted on, try reading that. As for how it has impacted on me, I wasn't aware our views had to be shaped on a purely selfish basis so why is that relevant?
Finally there are mixed conclusions on the economic costs and benefits of mass immigration and of EU membership so your tax point isn't one that supports whatever argument you are failing to make.[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0
