Farage unravels on LBC.

pdstsp

ukiboy wrote:

No great surprise that ukip did so well yesterday.. A large part of the electorate feel disillusioned, disenfranchised and plain pissed off with the mainstream morons..
Labour? Bunch of hypocritical champagne socialists led by a liberal, cosseted Islington elite. Millionaires the lot of them - Millibands, Blairs, Harman... And Diane Abbott and Emma Thompson privately educating their sprogs - height of hypocrisy..
Tories? No better.. Led by privileged, moneyed Eton posh boys.. And with policies and views that merge into one with the labour posh boys and girls..
Liberal Democrats? A joke.. Irrelevant, impotent and as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike..
The average man and woman in the street cannot relate in any way to Cameron, Clegg or Milliband and they cannot relate to us hence Nigel doing rather well..
Not a bad thing that the mainstream status quo is being upset a tad.

I take your point but why does anyone think Farage and his mates are any better - they're loons, peddling twaddle which is being lapped up by people.
It's a sad state of affairs that when we all get p1ssed off with the low rate mainstream politicians, we can't come up with anything better as an alternative than UKIP.

ukiboy

When the masses are pissed off with the status quo, they will make a pact with the devil to make their point/register their displeasure. It's the way of the world..
It's why Hitler got to power, it's why the democratic allies sided with the monster Stalin to defeat Hitler, it's why Clegg went into coalition with his avowed enemy... It's human nature to do weird and strange things just because they suit the situation at the given time...
The way of the world rightly or wrongly..

norvernrob

pdstsp wrote:

Heard a bloke interviewed on Radio 5 this morning about why he had voted UKIP. He explained that it was because they would stop all the immigrants coming over and claiming benefits. He then went on to complain that young people in Clacton couldn't get a job because all the immigrants have come over and taken all the jobs.

Those immigrants eh - all claiming dole and all doing all the work. B@stards.

Problem is that this party seems good at connecting with people and getting them to believe this twaddle.

I think it's pretty obvious he was saying a lot of immigrants claim benefits, and a lot take jobs that UK workers could do (whether they would or not is another matter).

I deliver to loads of immigrants/migrants, mainly Poles and Roma Slovaks but increasingly Africans too. Bit of a sweeping generalisation based on what I have seen over the last few years but the Poles and Africans tend to work, while a high percentage of the Roma hang around the streets all day.

A lot of a Eastern European migrants tend to do low paid jobs too, which means they're still a drain on the state as the household income needed to actually start contributing more than you take out is around £36k per year.

pinno

If UKIP make big inroads, then the whole Scottish referendum debate just may kick off again.

morstar

I think there is very little good to come out of this. Sure, it rattles a few cages which is highly amusing but it just forces a lurch to the right from the Conservatives.
Next general election will be fascinating and very hard to predict. Impossible to see Cons increasing their polling after a term in power, Labour just don't seem to be generating any sort of momentum whilst the Lib Dems will pay the price of taking a side in 2010. Amazing how 3 decades targeting a power sharing government backfired on them so badly.
All of that suggests the populist bollox of ukip will pick up a chunk of votes. But GE's are very different to protest votes in by elections. will lower income families really vote for a flat rate 30% tax? If they do, they're more stupid than I realised.
The best outcome is a completely hung parliament with no combination of two parties (other than Labour and Con) being able to form a majority government. That would obviously be very messy in the short term but the only outcome that would properly shake up parliament. That could force both politicians to up their game and voters to mobilise in 2020.

mamba80

I disagree, I think there is a great deal of good to come out of this, Cameron and Miliband are smug and too out of touch to be leaders of their once great parties, the sooner they both go the better for all and they can take Clegg with them.
Any short term change in policy will be seen for what it is, "say what the people want to hear and we ll go back to how we were, once back in power"
We need some real conviction politicians back in leadership roles, men and women who actually believe in something, rather than their own self importance, leaders who can lead, I fear we could be waiting a very long time.
As for ukip, they ve tapped into the real fears people can see in their lives, over crowded schools, immigrants working or not, claiming tax credits and/or benefits, housing shortages and Politicians who promise to reduce immigration but cant because of they have zero control over EU movement of people.

Labour made a huge mistake by allow unfettered access to the uk from the new east European states and voters wont forgive them nor Clegg for his tuition fee u turn and everyone hates Cameron

Personally ukip scares the hell out of me BUT I can easily see their attraction.

morstar

Oh I get the appeal. I have to listen to it a lot. I work in Blackpool which has the most incredible small town mindset possible for such a large town.
I still don't get how people can be so one dimensional. But hey ho. I don't agree with anything Ukip stand for but I do agree with them on one thing. Debate has been stifled but it's such a tricky issue. How do you allow open and honest debate that includes offensive ideas without exposing people to offensive ideas?
I think ukip should be allowed to share their true opinions openly. It's the only way the little englander mindset will properly unravel. They'll offend most people eventually. Give them a length of rope and let them hang themselves. Keeping them schtum perpetuates the silent majority myth that Al Murray captures so well.

ddraver

This is hilarious!

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/u ... gkGeRNjyLg

Utterly irrelevant but I love that. Sums up 99% of UKIP voters.

rick_chasey

ddraver wrote:

This is hilarious!

http://i100.independent.co.uk/article/u ... gkGeRNjyLg

Utterly irrelevant but I love that. Sums up 99% of UKIP voters.

More worrying than hilarious.


This chap seems to deep down be unhappy with the current situation, which he's more than entitled to do, and it seems that he puts the blame, in a very inarticulate way, at the 'elite' which, and I'm presuming here, he means people in Westminster.


To me, this sounds like a guy who can't find any rhetoric in the current political environment to articulate that unhappiness, so he goes for a protest vote from a party which at least pretends to not be Westminster elite and speaks a language a little more familiar to him.


I'm not a fan of mocking people when they have strong political opinions but haven't necessarily decided to articulate them. Every vote matters as much as everyone else's, and so does everyone's opinion (ignoring issues with the FPTP for a minute).

The presenter knew what he was doing there and it's a bit of a sneery middle class response which only serves to alienate people from the political discourse. He could have decided to help the chap articulate his concerns on immigration and everything else, but instead he made him feel hostile.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think UKIP is more dangerous to the UK than a deregulated financial system (i.e. very), and it will be an unmitigated disaster if their rise leads to the Tories conceded to the rabid anti-EU sect and pull out - and I think they're still largely a bunch of swivel eyed loons who I believe would be broadly incapable of any good governance whatsoever, but even my own rhetoric there doesn't serve to solve the issue.

You've got to engage and understand the guy's issue, and then give him the appropriate solution that aligns with your political persuasion. He matters as much as you do.

mamba80

i listened to this interview and the only thing the guy did wrong was ring in.
How many on here could state a labour or tory policy? I couldn't (from what I see, their policies will change according to the latest by election result or opinion poll) this guy was used by a well educated articulate presenter and made to look an idiot.
the concerns and worries I hear about immigration, housing, nhs and education are v real and the rise of ukip is because the main parties are seen to be immune from these issues and therefore couldn't careless, "they" are seen as v wealthy and able to buy their way to private health and education and live in areas where the only east European is likely as not to be the serving wench or butler.

ddraver

Hmm, I dunno mamba. I have zero interest in polotics (and now live abroad again) but just by being reasonably interested in the world around me I can think of a couple for each. I can't remember the details. e.g. Osbourne said something about raising Personal Allowance (which I like) and removing the Death Tax, however I can't remember to what level or what the death tax is exactly.

I would expect someone who is enough of a supporter of a party to ring in to a radio station to be able to do a few more...

ballysmate

Mamba is right in that there are swathes of the electorate who will vote for a particular party and not have any clear idea of the policies they are voting for.
My in laws always vote Labour. Nowt wrong with that. Misguided, but there you go. When I ask my mother in law why she votes for them, she says,"They are for us, the working man. We've always been Labour" She can't however point to specific policies that are 'For the working man'
There will be those out there who no doubt vote Tory because they are 'Tough on crime/immigration/ the workshy etc' without knowing specific policies.
But it appears that people from both sides are realising that they have been had and identify with the seemingly straight talking bloke with a pint in his hand.
Oh no! Another 'Pretty straight kind of guy' Arghhh We all know what happened with his hand at the helm.

rick_chasey

If it were up to me there'd be a lot less focus on specific policies anyway.

Over a 5 year period circumstances change, so what was appropriate just before the election might not be 3 years later.

What you should be voting for is 2 things:

1) Ability to be a good governor. Within reason, across any non-extreme political party there are people who can govern and who can't. That's irrespective of political alignment. Sometimes, as much as you agree with the politics of your party, you can't trust them govern well.

2) their natural response to issues - which you can roughly plot on a political spectrum. A basic example would be in an attempt to boost growth a party on the right would, say, cut tax, whereas those on the left may increase gov't spending.

That way you don't get this 'broken promises' malarky, and there'd be more focus on politicians as governors.

ballysmate

Demographically, UKIP voters attract men slightly more than women – and the party draws its support disproportionately from older people with fewer qualifications. Whereas 46% of all voters are over 50, and 38% under 40, the figures for UKIP are 71% and 15% respectively. And just 13% of UKIP supporters have university degrees – half the national average (though this partly reflects the age profile: older people generally were less likely to attend university when they were young).

http://yougov.co.uk/news/2013/03/05/ana ... ip-voters/


http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/pop-estim ... anges.html

If you look at the graph it shows that the UK population has increased by nearly 20% in less than my lifetime. As the article says, half of this increase was during the Blair years. It may in some way help to explain the UKIP demographics.

symo

I know enough about all parties energy policies to know that UKIP would be a disaster. Basically its, "screw the water table lets frack" and "Dear Mr Putin how would you like to be fellated today?"

Like I said elsewhere, they are not actually any change, just the same public school ex-city rich boys deciding what is the best for the rest of us. My only problem with all the parties is that

a) no real long term 20 year vision
b) obsessed with quick patch fixes to appeal to largest voter base (baby boomers).
c) not willing to fix the tax system - ie simplify it to the point where I didn't have to go on an accountancy course to understand our tax laws.
d) public schools to become charitable institutions - with at least 50% intake being from poor incomes / scholarship placements. Or lose their charity status and reflect what they really are; businesses.
e) energy policy to make truly independent of any outside assistance in 15 years.

They are my vote winners. As it is the establishment perpetuates itself. Oh and I read this which didn't help

ballysmate

symo wrote:

I know enough about all parties energy policies to know that UKIP would be a disaster. Basically its, "screw the water table lets frack" and "Dear Mr Putin how would you like to be fellated today?"

Like I said elsewhere, they are not actually any change, just the same public school ex-city rich boys deciding what is the best for the rest of us. My only problem with all the parties is that

a) no real long term 20 year vision
b) obsessed with quick patch fixes to appeal to largest voter base (baby boomers).
c) not willing to fix the tax system - ie simplify it to the point where I didn't have to go on an accountancy course to understand our tax laws.
d) public schools to become charitable institutions - with at least 50% intake being from poor incomes / scholarship placements. Or lose their charity status and reflect what they really are; businesses.
e) energy policy to make truly independent of any outside assistance in 15 years.

They are my vote winners. As it is the establishment perpetuates itself. Oh and I read this which didn't help

Very laudable, I'm sure but it is ignoring the elephant in the room. Immigration and the terms of EU membership.
:oops: Sorry, apair of elephants.
There needs to be a grown up debate on these issues without branding people racist. If immigration is beneficial to the country then open up the debate and persuade people who may be tempted to vote UKIP.