Power meter - am I wasting my money?
Comments
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dennisn wrote:To you it's "....completely and....". To me it may or may not turn out to be the truth but at least I question the idea that it's a "must have" tool.
I don't think anyone has actually said it is a 'must have' - which is yet another example of how you have hijacked this thread to suit your own level of ignorance.dennisn wrote:You don't bother to question that idea, you simply bought into it because, most likely, you saw some pros with them on their bikes or a pretty picture of one somewhere or believed the hype. Don't get so upset when someone challenges your views. It's not a pesonal attack, like if I snuck up behind you and smacked ya wilh a ball bat.
I haven't bought into any 'idea' - and you are not 'challenging' my views. However, forming an opinion is not made any easier by your ridiculous, off-topic rambling.dennisn wrote:Also what do you think I know that I should stick to? If anything?
Good question. Probably nothing in this forum, by the sound of it. But sadly you will just see that as a green light to carry on. Shame the mods aren't more active here....0 -
Playing with my cycle "video games" helped me to race and place at UCI World Cup, set a national masters team pursuit record and win Cat 1/2 race within 4 years of losing a leg. If anything, these "video games" aided a more professional approach to my training and racing, and was certainly not a distraction from the hard (and smarter) work that went into those achievements.
Each to their own I suppose.0 -
careful wrote:On the negative side: I have also taken up the trial free offer of Training Peaks software. Great fun and very useful I'm sure. I am thinking of just doing one ride each year and spending the remaining 364 days analysing it and producing tables and graphs. Seriously though - one downside is that it could become too much information - need to be clear about my objectives.
Not sure if this has already been mentioned or posted, I started skimming posts what with all the dennisn stuff going on in here, but it might be worthwhile checking out the two latest videos over here;
http://www.youtube.com/user/PeaksCoachingGroup/videosThe path of my life is strewn with cowpats from the devil's own satanic herd.0 -
Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Playing with my cycle "video games" helped me to race and place at UCI World Cup, set a national masters team pursuit record and win Cat 1/2 race within 4 years of losing a leg. If anything, these "video games" aided a more professional approach to my training and racing, and was certainly not a distraction from the hard (and smarter) work that went into those achievements.
Each to their own I suppose.
Anecdotal evidence, at best.0 -
dennisn wrote:
C'mon now. Tell me that it doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games. :?
Okay. It doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games.
You, however, sound extremely bigoted."You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:
C'mon now. Tell me that it doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games. :?
Okay. It doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games.
You, however, sound extremely bigoted.
Pretty much everone on this thread is bigoted. If you have no tolerance for my views(i.e. bigotry), how is that any different than myself having no belief in yours? :?0 -
dennisn wrote:Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:
C'mon now. Tell me that it doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games. :?
Okay. It doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games.
You, however, sound extremely bigoted.
Pretty much everone on this thread is bigoted. If you have no tolerance for my views(i.e. bigotry), how is that any different than myself having no belief in yours? :?
When did I say that I was intolerant of your views?
Unfortunately, being part of a tolerant society means that I have to tolerate your intolerance."You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:
C'mon now. Tell me that it doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games. :?
Okay. It doesn't sound like a couple of teenagers playing video games.
You, however, sound extremely bigoted.
Pretty much everone on this thread is bigoted. If you have no tolerance for my views(i.e. bigotry), how is that any different than myself having no belief in yours? :?
When did I say that I was intolerant of your views?
Right back at ya? :?
Maybe you're confusing intoleance with disbelief?
In any case it's my BELIEF that a video screen has nothing and is no aid to the reality of taking the proper line through a corner during a race, not getting dropped off the back at said corner, climbing long / steep mountain passes, knowing how maintain yor position in a race, how to descend a long / steep mountain road, etc. I could go on and on but I think you get my drift.
These power meters won't give you any cycling skills to help you win(so to speak). Mount a dozen on your bike, sift through masssive binders full of charts and graphs, you'll still get blown out the back until you learn racing skills.0 -
"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0
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I never represented it as anything other than anecdote. However it does serve to demonstrate that your opinion is not universally applicable, nor do you have evidence to support an assertion that such tools ("video games") are detrimental to cycling performance.dennisn wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Playing with my cycle "video games" helped me to race and place at UCI World Cup, set a national masters team pursuit record and win Cat 1/2 race within 4 years of losing a leg. If anything, these "video games" aided a more professional approach to my training and racing, and was certainly not a distraction from the hard (and smarter) work that went into those achievements.
Each to their own I suppose.
Anecdotal evidence, at best.0 -
Power meters are the new Lance for dennisn.More problems but still living....0
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Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:
However it does serve to demonstrate that your opinion is not universally applicable, nor do you have evidence to support an assertion that such tools ("video games") are detrimental to cycling performance.dennisn wrote:Alex_Simmons/RST wrote:Playing with my cycle "video games" helped me to race and place at UCI World Cup, set a national masters team pursuit record and win Cat 1/2 race within 4 years of losing a leg. If anything, these "video games" aided a more professional approach to my training and racing, and was certainly not a distraction from the hard (and smarter) work that went into those achievements.
Each to their own I suppose.
Anecdotal evidence, at best.
I can't recall using the word "detrimental". Although if you spent an inordinate amount of time looking a data instead of riding I suppose it could be detrimental.
I think I'm looking on it more as a simple gadjet not unlike all of the golfing gadjets that claim to lower you score. I don't know how many of these golfing items their are but it's a large number and every golfer I've ever known has bought at least one of them. Surely, by now, the world must be full of scratch golfers, but it's not.0 -
amaferanga wrote:Power meters are the new Lance for dennisn.
To be honest I have a tendancy to question the status quo and / or be the devils advocate.
As for power meters I really do believe they are grown-up's toys.
As for LA. I simply got tired of reading the same old, same old. It all seemed to be nothing more than I hate him, me too, over and over and over and over. BORING!0 -
dennisn wrote:Although if you spent an inordinate amount of time looking a data instead of riding I suppose it could be detrimental.
Lets assume you've spent 5mins per post on your last 9300 posts - about 775 hours. Do you not think that inordinate amount of time spent on here has been detrimental to your riding and possibly slightly skewed views on reality?0 -
I'm fascinated by the thought processes that could lead you to this conclusion (in the same way that I'm fascinated by religious belief from the point of view of being an atheist).dennisn wrote:As for power meters I really do believe they are grown-up's toys.
You must accept that controlled effort is fundamental to cycling - on a long climb you need to get your effort level just right or you will either explode before the top or start out slower than is ideal. In training you can end up being weak in certain areas (threshold, VO2 max or whatever) unless you spend long enough riding at the appropriate effort levels. How could a device that tells you exactly how much power you are producing NOT be useful for these things if you are prepared to make the most of the data?
Of course there are lots of aspects of cycling that have little or nothing to do with effort or power. And of course you can learn to gauge effort by feel - if you ride up enough 1 hour climbs you get a feeling for how hard to go, but that feeling is always going to be a bit hit and miss and affected by lots of things from one day to the next. So how could it not be useful to know how much power you are capable of producing for an hour and to have a device on the bars that tells you exactly how much power you are producing?
When you start using a power meter you almost can't help discovering useful things about yourself and your training. So for example, the area I ride in is very rolling with a small "r" - lots of very short hills and slopes, no big climbs, but virtually no long uninterrupted flat sections either. My power profile on my fast rides reflects this - I spend a lot of time in the anaerobic and VO2 max zones and a lot of time in the recovery and to a lesser extent tempo zones, but rather little in the threshold zone, because I am always powering up the next short hill and recovering once over the top. Before I got the power meter as far as I was concerned I was just "riding hard" on those rides, but in fact I was hardly training at all at threshold, which is the critical zone for longer sustained efforts. But now I know this I can plug that gap by doing the odd 2x20 or 3x10 interval session on the indoor trainer, when I am spending almost all of the time in that zone that I would otherwise be under-training.0 -
wavefront wrote:dennisn wrote:Although if you spent an inordinate amount of time looking a data instead of riding I suppose it could be detrimental.
Lets assume you've spent 5mins per post on your last 9300 posts - about 775 hours. Do you not think that inordinate amount of time spent on here has been detrimental to your riding and possibly slightly skewed views on reality?
Not really. I'm retired, so riding is plentiful and I ride because I like it, not because I've got some notion that I must always go faster, stronger, harder. Where will it take you anyway? The pros? Doubt it.
As for my skewed views on reality. I'm not the one sitting at a desk looking at a small screen full of graphs and charts and pretending I'm cycling. I'm out in the ral world on a real bike. Don't get me wrong, play your video games if you must but don't confuse them with actual riding.
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Hi, I am new here and in the process of buying Powertap G3 wheelset. The best price I have found is 853Euro on German Wiggle web http://www.wigglesport.de/powertap-g3-laufradsatz-aus-aluminium-legierung-drahtreifen/
Anyway, sending the same item within the EU to Slovakia (where I am from) makes the price increase to 913Euro on Wiggle :shock:
I assume this is their pricing strategy. Is anybody aware of any better price pls? Thanks for help0 -
dennisn wrote:Don't get me wrong, play your video games if you must but don't confuse them with actual riding.
ok - I see where you've gone wrong here. You are confusing a home entertainment device with a cycle training tool. Having said that, it doesn't suprise me that you find such a simple differentiator so incredibly hard to grasp.0 -
So what you are really saying is that you don't want to train to be faster and to compete - fair enough, but that's a whole different subject from power meters! No-one is claiming that they are riding when they are looking at their power data, any more than when they are stretching, eating or truing a wheel...dennisn wrote:Not really. I'm retired, so riding is plentiful and I ride because I like it, not because I've got some notion that I must always go faster, stronger, harder. Where will it take you anyway? The pros? Doubt it.
As for my skewed views on reality. I'm not the one sitting at a desk looking at a small screen full of graphs and charts and pretending I'm cycling. I'm out in the ral world on a real bike. Don't get me wrong, play your video games if you must but don't confuse them with actual riding. :wink0 -
neeb wrote:dennisn wrote:Not really. I'm retired, so riding is plentiful and I ride because I like it, not because I've got some notion that I must always go faster, stronger, harder. Where will it take you anyway? The pros? Doubt it.
As for my skewed views on reality. I'm not the one sitting at a desk looking at a small screen full of graphs and charts and pretending I'm cycling. I'm out in the ral world on a real bike. Don't get me wrong, play your video games if you must but don't confuse them with actual riding. :wink
No-one is claiming that they are riding when they are looking at their power data, any more than when they are stretching, eating or truing a wheel...
I would bet you're wrong about that. I'm thinking the many riders spend an inordinate amount of time staring at their little screens while riding. Looking at all sorts of things, speed, cadence, where the next turn is, who is texting them and what about, power output, heartrate, etc, etc,. It's my opinion that there is an addition, that many, many people have that only their little screens can satisfy. The fear of missing out on something that comes on these screens is just to much for some to resist. Add in the fact that this is their world, that they created and you have someone who's reality is all about the little world that they have created and most are basically unable to function with groups of real people doing real things. They have little in the way of social skills and will drop you in a heartbeat when their little world calls with a beep and or a whistle. To me, seeing this in people, is just really sad.
Short story, if you will indulge me?
Went on a road trip to Colorado with my nephew(19 years old) for a week of skiing at Breckinridge. Of course he brought his laptop. Most of the time, when I was driving, he had his face buried in it. When we went across the Mississippi River he never looked up. St. Louis Missouri didn't fare much better and when we hit Denver and the mountains not much changer there either. I was struck by the thought that a little screen could be that addicting and how they can become your whole world.0 -
One option would be to buy a G3 hub and get it built into a wheel locally - there are some great deals on ebay at the moment from US sellers (even once you add on the import taxes).IdentityEnhancer wrote:Hi, I am new here and in the process of buying Powertap G3 wheelset. The best price I have found is 853Euro on German Wiggle web http://www.wigglesport.de/powertap-g3-laufradsatz-aus-aluminium-legierung-drahtreifen/
Anyway, sending the same item within the EU to Slovakia (where I am from) makes the price increase to 913Euro on Wiggle :shock:
I assume this is their pricing strategy. Is anybody aware of any better price pls? Thanks for help0 -
Well, now you are talking about the whole issue of virtuality in society in general, and you may have a point there.dennisn wrote:I would bet you're wrong about that. I'm thinking the many riders spend an inordinate amount of time staring at their little screens while riding. Looking at all sorts of things, speed, cadence, where the next turn is, who is texting them and what about, power output, heartrate, etc, etc,. It's my opinion that there is an addition, that many, many people have that only their little screens can satisfy. The fear of missing out on something that comes on these screens is just to much for some to resist. Add in the fact that this is their world, that they created and you have someone who's reality is all about the little world that they have created and most are basically unable to function with groups of real people doing real things. They have little in the way of social skills and will drop you in a heartbeat when their little world calls with a beep and or a whistle. To me, seeing this in people, is just really sad.
Short story, if you will indulge me?
Went on a road trip to Colorado with my nephew(19 years old) for a week of skiing at Breckinridge. Of course he brought his laptop. Most of the time, when I was driving, he had his face buried in it. When we went across the Mississippi River he never looked up. St. Louis Missouri didn't fare much better and when we hit Denver and the mountains not much changer there either. I was struck by the thought that a little screen could be that addicting and how they can become your whole world.
You could be right that there is a certain type of rider who is coming to cycling from a highly virtualised background (computer games, facebook etc) and for whom powermeters, GPS, Strava etc offer a comforting way to remain partially in that world while cycling. But that doesn't mean that power meters can't also be used as a highly effective training tool by perfectly outgoing and friendly people with a full range of social skills.. 0 -
neeb wrote:
Well, now you are talking about the whole issue of virtuality in society in general, and you may have a point there.dennisn wrote:I would bet you're wrong about that. I'm thinking the many riders spend an inordinate amount of time staring at their little screens while riding. Looking at all sorts of things, speed, cadence, where the next turn is, who is texting them and what about, power output, heartrate, etc, etc,. It's my opinion that there is an addition, that many, many people have that only their little screens can satisfy. The fear of missing out on something that comes on these screens is just to much for some to resist. Add in the fact that this is their world, that they created and you have someone who's reality is all about the little world that they have created and most are basically unable to function with groups of real people doing real things. They have little in the way of social skills and will drop you in a heartbeat when their little world calls with a beep and or a whistle. To me, seeing this in people, is just really sad.
Short story, if you will indulge me?
Went on a road trip to Colorado with my nephew(19 years old) for a week of skiing at Breckinridge. Of course he brought his laptop. Most of the time, when I was driving, he had his face buried in it. When we went across the Mississippi River he never looked up. St. Louis Missouri didn't fare much better and when we hit Denver and the mountains not much changer there either. I was struck by the thought that a little screen could be that addicting and how they can become your whole world.
You could be right that there is a certain type of rider who is coming to cycling from a highly virtualised background (computer games, facebook etc) and for whom powermeters, GPS, Strava etc offer a comforting way to remain partially in that world while cycling. But that doesn't mean that power meters can't also be used as a highly effective training tool by perfectly outgoing and friendly people with a full range of social skills..
Hold on now. I seem to recall saying it was "my opinion" that power meters are of no use.
I say let's get together in 10 or 15 years and see where all these things, that were supposed to help you get faster, stronger, tougher, have ended up. 0 -
I'll happily bet you a pair of hand-made tubulars (or whatever the equivalent is in 2024) that more people are using power meters in ten years time than are doing so today..dennisn wrote:Hold on now. I seem to recall saying it was "my opinion" that power meters are of no use.
I say let's get together in 10 or 15 years and see where all these things, that were supposed to help you get faster, stronger, tougher, have ended up.0 -
neeb wrote:
I'll happily bet you a pair of hand-made tubulars (or whatever the equivalent is in 2024) that more people are using power meters in ten years time than are doing so today..dennisn wrote:Hold on now. I seem to recall saying it was "my opinion" that power meters are of no use.
I say let's get together in 10 or 15 years and see where all these things, that were supposed to help you get faster, stronger, tougher, have ended up.
My belief is that, much like gadjets in golf that were guaranteed to make you a scratch golfer, cycling gadjets, like power meters, will be consigned to the trash bin and talked about jokingly in the future, while many many people are out buying the latest gadjets that will make them faster, climb better, etc. It is a very common misconception in cycling that you can buy better performance. And maybe you can, but it comes in a needle, not a computer screen or from a bit of carbon.0 -
dennisn wrote:It is a very common misconception in cycling that you can buy better performance.
This is a misconception in itself.
A myth perpetuated on sites like this by people who are unable or unwilling to grasp the benefits of training aids.
Or maybe those who are unable or unwilling to finance them.
IMO of course
"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0 -
neeb wrote:
I'll happily bet you a pair of hand-made tubulars (or whatever the equivalent is in 2024) that more people are using power meters in ten years time than are doing so today..dennisn wrote:Hold on now. I seem to recall saying it was "my opinion" that power meters are of no use.
I say let's get together in 10 or 15 years and see where all these things, that were supposed to help you get faster, stronger, tougher, have ended up.
Probably, but only so long as the pro teams suggest there is continuing value in it and it has not been upgraded by an alternative "tool". They are currently "in vogue". If the manufacturer of toy monkeys sponsored a couple of pro teams and they put them on their stems, arguing that science suggests that being reminded to control your "inner chimp" is a key psychological variable in performance improvement, I am willing to bet that the growth in sales of toy monkeys among cyclists would be exponential.
As to power meters I would only bother with one if I (or someone I paid) had the knowledge to accurately interpret the data to provide meaningful information and secondly that I (or someone I paid) had detailed knowledge of training theory, chemical energy systems etc etc in order to use the power information in a constructive manner. Without that, I may still improve, but equally may not, because I changed something due to a lack of understanding, when it was a positive contributor anyway. That said, I appreciate that many people enjoy playing with numbers even if it doesn't translate to genuine improvement, which is fine, its all about personal choice.0 -
Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:It is a very common misconception in cycling that you can buy better performance.
This is a misconception in itself.
A myth perpetuated on sites like this by people who are unable or unwilling to grasp the benefits of training aids.
Or maybe those who are unable or unwilling to finance them.
IMO of course
I would challenge you to ask TDF riders if it was "training aids" that got them there. Or pro golfers if it was all those gadjets that helped them win the Masters. I think you know it wasn't. :?0 -
dennisn wrote:Charlie Potatoes wrote:dennisn wrote:It is a very common misconception in cycling that you can buy better performance.
This is a misconception in itself.
A myth perpetuated on sites like this by people who are unable or unwilling to grasp the benefits of training aids.
Or maybe those who are unable or unwilling to finance them.
IMO of course
I would challenge you to ask TDF riders if it was "training aids" that got them there. Or pro golfers if it was all those gadjets that helped them win the Masters. I think you know it wasn't. :?
AID
noun
1.
help, typically of a practical nature.
"he saw the pilot slumped in his cockpit and went to his aid"
synonyms: assistance, support; More
antonyms: hindrance
financial or material help given to a country or area in need.
"700,000 tons of food aid"
synonyms: donations, funding, contributions, subsidies, benefits, welfare, gifts, grants, relief, charity, financial assistance, subvention, alms, offerings, handouts, largesse; More
a source of help or assistance.
plural noun: aids
"exercise is an important aid to recovery after heart attacks"
2.
historical
a grant of subsidy or tax to a king or queen.
verb
verb: aid; 3rd person present: aids; past tense: aided; past participle: aided; gerund or present participle: aiding
1.
help or support (someone or something) in the achievement of something.
"women were aided in childbirth by midwives"
synonyms: help, assist, abet, come to the aid of, give assistance to, lend a hand"You really think you can burn off sugar with exercise?" downhill paul0
