Carlton Kirby

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  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    edited April 2023
    tailwindhome said:

    Thread on social media comments re cycling commentators

    Some contributions from this parish

    You don't need to be on twitter to click through and read the thread

    Worth thinking about how the people involve may feel about being told they're censored at their job.

    Which may or may not be fair comment, but I'm not sure how I'd handle a crowd around my desk on Monday morning telling me they hate how I do the weekly accounts

    I think Dan's aware by now that he meant 'soul'

    The paying viewers are clients. If my clients felt I was doing a bad job they would be on the phone to my boss asking for me to be removed from their projects (it has happened with colleagues in previous companies). If he gets upset by it you would think he might work on addressing the criticisms.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    edited April 2023
    As I always say it's all subjective - I really like Hatch's commentary and I don't mind Carlton - I can't stand one or two (not all in ES,) but those two would not be in my list to get rid of.

    Btw if Dan reads this can I have a moan - it's a small thing but when Adam is discussing the intricacies of the sport can you not shut him up because you feel it's above the heads of the viewers. It happened the other day with a discussion of tyre pressures, and another instance when you made him explain what the "valley of death" (I think) was in case someone didn't realise it was the join between road sections.

    It's a pet hate of mine with itv that they commentate as if the viewers have never watched a bike race before. I want to listen in on experts having a discussion while watching a race not attend a lecture on the ABC of racing. Football commentators don't explain the offside law every time the whistle blows - new fans pick it up as they go along. I just think viewers want to feel they are being talked with not at ...it may just be me of course.

    Edit - I realise Dan isn't on ITV btw I just can't stand it commentary and would hate ES to go that style.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    edited April 2023
    DeVlaeminck said:


    Football commentators don't explain the offside law every time the whistle blows - new fans pick it up as they go along. I just think viewers want to feel they are being talked with not at ...it may just be me of course.

    While I agree with your point, football is a little different because everyone played it at school (men at least). By contrast I'm not convinced many rugby fans can understand their offside rule.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,437
    RichN95. said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.


    I haven't seen the clip, but
    Pross said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Thread on social media comments re cycling commentators

    Some contributions from this parish

    You don't need to be on twitter to click through and read the thread

    Worth thinking about how the people involve may feel about being told they're censored at their job.

    Which may or may not be fair comment, but I'm not sure how I'd handle a crowd around my desk on Monday morning telling me they hate how I do the weekly accounts

    I think Dan's aware by now that he meant 'soul'

    The paying viewers are clients. If my clients felt I was doing a bad job they would be on the phone to my moss asking for me to be removed from their projects (it has happened with colleagues in previous companies). If he gets upset by it you would think he might work on addressing the criticisms.
    That's a bit different from people posting on social media calling on your boss to remove you from a project
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited April 2023
    If he does read it, it’s not personal, genuinely, and it’s only a internet forum opinion (as Cav understands) but sincerely, if Carlton is on the call I watch a different feed as I can’t stand it.

    So much so now I save my GCN money and pay for a VPN instead and watch national feeds from other countries.

    I’m lucky that I understand Dutch so I can watch sporza. I’m even luckier that Eurosport put Hatch on the RCS races, as Sporza does not have an agreement to show their races.


    I’m just an opinionated gobshite who happens to watch cycling so don’t take it personally.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    r0bh said:

    RichN95. said:

    Lanterne_Rogue said:

    I think they use iPhones or tablets as a way to have the facts at their fingertips. If it was the same segment I saw you could hear Orla checking something about levels - rather than texting she was probably swotting up on the main themes they'd agreed to talk about afterwards. I quite appreciated the insight into how they work - everyone else going nuts and Orla making sure that she's fully equipped to play ringmistress. She's clearly a fan, but she's also an absolute pro, and it gets the best out of everyone else around her.


    I haven't seen the clip, but
    Pross said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Thread on social media comments re cycling commentators

    Some contributions from this parish

    You don't need to be on twitter to click through and read the thread

    Worth thinking about how the people involve may feel about being told they're censored at their job.

    Which may or may not be fair comment, but I'm not sure how I'd handle a crowd around my desk on Monday morning telling me they hate how I do the weekly accounts

    I think Dan's aware by now that he meant 'soul'

    The paying viewers are clients. If my clients felt I was doing a bad job they would be on the phone to my moss asking for me to be removed from their projects (it has happened with colleagues in previous companies). If he gets upset by it you would think he might work on addressing the criticisms.
    That's a bit different from people posting on social media calling on your boss to remove you from a project
    It’s a different type of job though. Those who are paying for the GCN product don’t have a direct line to the MD so social media is the only option to express their views.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,725
    I have been playing catch up here in Buenos Aires.
    What’s been good for me is that I could watch with the sound off, knowing that there would be nothing happening that I couldn’t work out for myself.
    Roundabouts are Carlton’s area of expertise, pave, not so much.

    Now, just a heads up……
    ….. I won’t be back in the UK until the second half of May, so the Giro isn’t going to get the usual treatment.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    If he reads it - I like your commentary Carlton .

    Why? Because he seems a likeable sort who doesn't take racing too seriously. Ultimately the sport is ridiculous - asking people to race for hours in all weathers on all road surfaces - it's not to be taken too seriously.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    I often watch with the sound off, because I don't think there needs to be someone talking about what's on screen all the time when nothing is happening. If there is someone talking, I'd rather it nor just be a list of random riders in the race.

    I like the Carlton bits where he talks to the posh guy about recipes or buildings in the grand tours, there's not enough of that. If he could tell more anecdotes, that would be good too.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    How about reading the race and letting us know who’s doing what?

    Half the time someone’s made a move and you wouldn’t know from the chat.

    I’d be more sympathetic if rider identification is difficult but the Belgians do it fine and promptly.
    _
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,318
    kingstongraham said:

    I often watch with the sound off, because I don't think there needs to be someone talking about what's on screen all the time when nothing is happening. If there is someone talking, I'd rather it nor just be a list of random riders in the race.

    I like the Carlton bits where he talks to the posh guy about recipes or buildings in the grand tours, there's not enough of that. If he could tell more anecdotes, that would be good too.

    [Jonathan Harris Bass]
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    rick_chasey said:

    How about reading the race and letting us know who’s doing what?

    Half the time someone’s made a move and you wouldn’t know from the chat.

    I’d be more sympathetic if rider identification is difficult but the Belgians do it fine and promptly.

    The one day races do need a different skill set to the stage races, it's true.
  • pinno
    pinno Posts: 52,318
    rick_chasey said:

    How about reading the race and letting us know who’s doing what?

    Half the time someone’s made a move and you wouldn’t know from the chat.

    I’d be more sympathetic if rider identification is difficult but the Belgians do it fine and promptly.

    You can gather a lot from what you see.

    I do not think commentating is easy and when things happen fast with poor camera views (I don't think they see more than we do), do they have to try and get a number then look at the start list and then refer the rider to the viewer? By that time the move has gone or things have changed.

    The Kirby/McEwan combo is good but then McEwan's straight talking and clarity would complement any lead commentator. He also has a sense of humour unlike Smith who is very succinct and knowledgeable but 'dry' (as we say in Jockland) and doesn't fill the boring bits comfortably. Kelly has improved over the years but he's not that good. We don't do Kelly bashing like you lot do Kirby bashing and that's only because of Kelly's stature/palmarès.

    Kirby might whitter but it's benign and predictable whereas Hatch is in dire need of a weekend of hookers, a few blow jobs and marijuana just to scale the ridiculous over emphasised noun pronunciation and hyperbole down a few notches.
    seanoconn - gruagach craic!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    pinno said:

    rick_chasey said:

    How about reading the race and letting us know who’s doing what?

    Half the time someone’s made a move and you wouldn’t know from the chat.

    I’d be more sympathetic if rider identification is difficult but the Belgians do it fine and promptly.

    You can gather a lot from what you see.

    I do not think commentating is easy and when things happen fast with poor camera views (I don't think they see more than we do), do they have to try and get a number then look at the start list and then refer the rider to the viewer? By that time the move has gone or things have changed.
    The Dutch and Flemish commentators can and do identify a rider almost immediately and even if they can't work it out they're trying.

    Often someone pings off the front and Carlton is still wanging on about a dinner he had 30 years ago or the dangers of a roundabout.

    That does not happen on Sporza.

    So what are they doing differently?
    _
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Blyth is excellent at rider ID generally as well, and when he gets it wrong he immediately corrects himself.

    The sections of Flanders where it was LLoyd / Blyth were excellent - both have the knowledge and experience of the event of course, but are also massive admirers and fans of what they are watching and clearly keep up to date with all the riders coming through.

    When they switched to Carlton on lead comms it was almost like listening to a different event. He's fine for stage races if that's your thing but it's totally jarring when he's on one of the major one-dayers.
  • gethinceri
    gethinceri Posts: 1,662
    Some are great: Lloyd, Blyth, Stephens, Christmas - I'm learning from them
    Some are good (in an armchair, raconteurish way): Hatch, Kirby, Kelly - I'm being entertained by them
    Some are barely tolerable: Mcdonald, Rowe - the remote is too far away for me to put them on mute

    I listen to them all, ignore some or all of what they say, watch and use my own knowledge (and the internet).
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    The ones (Comms and presenters) I enjoy most - Kelly, Blythe, Hatch, McEwen, Orla.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,979
    edited April 2023
    DeVlaeminck said:

    The ones (Comms and presenters) I enjoy most - Kelly, Blythe, Hatch, McEwen, Orla.

    Pretty much mirrors my favourites, though I'd add Lloyd in there for sure, and not because he might read this :D

    EDIT: Just to add, I latterly watched stage 1 of the tour of the alps, and to my ear, Hatch and Blythe were on top form - great banter, very comfortable with each other, and great humour paired with correct rider identification, and a great reading of the race and tactics - this for me means this has the potential to be one of the better stage races. Looking forward to the Giro as well, which I gather has both of them present as well.
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  • stage_hunter
    stage_hunter Posts: 317
    daniel_b said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    The ones (Comms and presenters) I enjoy most - Kelly, Blythe, Hatch, McEwen, Orla.

    Pretty much mirrors my favourites, though I'd add Lloyd in there for sure, and not because he might read this :D

    EDIT: Just to add, I latterly watched stage 1 of the tour of the alps, and to my ear, Hatch and Blythe were on top form - great banter, very comfortable with each other, and great humour paired with correct rider identification, and a great reading of the race and tactics - this for me means this has the potential to be one of the better stage races. Looking forward to the Giro as well, which I gather has both of them present as well.
    Helps enormously when they like each other
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,655
    .
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    For those that only watch Sporza, what’s Belgian snooker commentary like?
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited May 2023
    RichN95. said:

    For those that only watch Sporza, what’s Belgian snooker commentary like?

    Wife’s a snooker fan so it’s BBC here I’m afraid.

    They do get BBC over there so I suspect they’ll just watch that.

    _
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,549
    edited May 2023
    RichN95. said:

    For those that only watch Sporza, what’s Belgian snooker commentary like?

    They probably have Eddy Merckx as the expert commentator.
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,821
    What I do know is that Roger De Vlaeminck would have been World Snooker Champion if he'd put his mind to it.
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    rick_chasey said:

    RichN95. said:

    For those that only watch Sporza, what’s Belgian snooker commentary like?

    Wife’s a snooker fan so it’s BBC here I’m afraid.

    They do get BBC over there so I suspect they’ll just watch that.

    I quite like the BBC snooker commentary but I don't know much about the sport. It probably comes across as quite noddy to keen players
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Probably, though the crowd's enthusiasm to listen to the commentary while they're in the stands suggests to me it does appeal to the keener fan.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,916
    Bjorn Haneveer does the commentary on Eurosport for the Flemmish/Dutch crowd.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bjorn_Haneveer
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    shirley_basso said:

    rick_chasey said:

    RichN95. said:

    For those that only watch Sporza, what’s Belgian snooker commentary like?

    Wife’s a snooker fan so it’s BBC here I’m afraid.

    They do get BBC over there so I suspect they’ll just watch that.

    I quite like the BBC snooker commentary but I don't know much about the sport. It probably comes across as quite noddy to keen players
    I'm not a snooker fan either but the commentators were Virgo and 7 former world champions so they know their stuff and seemed to regularly predict the next shot on the little bit of the final I watched (think that was Virgo and Doherty). It always amazes me the shot they choose as I've only ever been able to get my head around potting the ball in front of you and trying to get in position for the next one whereas they're always looking several shots ahead and never seem to take what seems to me to be the obvious option.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    edited May 2023
    Carlton would liven the sport up though, it's so quiet and needs his level of enthusiasm. You never hear mention of a gnarly black ball coming up or comments that the weather conditions may have made the baize a bit sketchy. No-one has even predicted Si Clarke as a winner.
  • vincesummerskRoxcBTr
    vincesummerskRoxcBTr Posts: 1,085
    I don't mind Kirby but find Rob Hatch's overenthusiasm pretty irritating.

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