Carlton Kirby
Comments
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Are exempt from criticising world leaders because most of us would do a rubbish job at what is a tough gig?0
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I dont think i suggested you couldnt criticise Rick, far from it..I just pointed out...we might all like the gig, despite the fact we would be cr ap too!! And as for the world leader thing...its not really the same is it...in all fairness..lol0
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Rick Chasey wrote:Point is they have a decent commentator already.
Always rated Quiglan Decley tbh0 -
I don't want to be commentator for Eurosport, but that doesn't mean I can't criticise someone doing it badly.
As Gary Neville put it last week, "I'm not a chef but I know a good steak"0 -
Gary Neviles doing cycling commentary on eurosport :shock:TakeTheHighRoad wrote:
As Gary Neville put it last week, "I'm not a chef but I know a good steak"0 -
There are some terrible commentators out there. I think it may have been Matt Rendell on the Bike Channel solo, who was absolutely terrible, but that was partly due to needing someone beside him. Carlton is terrible for his own reasons.
These days the commentators have so much to make their jobs easier. Instead of needing everything written down on paper, they can access info via computers, or have people on computers feeding the info into their ears. They have access to race radio, high definition screens, etc. They also have so many days of racing televised and loads of websites with the latest news.
If you are a cycling commentator that is a JOB. That means you should be doing research for your job, which you are presumably well paid to do. For me that would include watching other televised races that you aren't commentating on, learning how to identify riders based on their riding style, and actually reading the latest news before you start commentary, as well as cycling magazines. So many times Carlton has been talking during a stage and clearly knows nothing about news that has been reported on not just every cycling website, but even BBC Sport.
So often with Carlton you feel that he just turns up in the morning with little preparation and wings it.0 -
squired wrote:So often with Carlton you feel that he just turns up in the morning with little preparation and wings it.
Shhhh. That's been my modus operandi for years, I don't want you blowing it by saying that approach is unacceptable on a public forum.It's only a bit of sport, Mun. Relax and enjoy the racing.0 -
squired wrote:There are some terrible commentators out there. I think it may have been Matt Rendell on the Bike Channel solo, who was absolutely terrible, but that was partly due to needing someone beside him. Carlton is terrible for his own reasons.
These days the commentators have so much to make their jobs easier. Instead of needing everything written down on paper, they can access info via computers, or have people on computers feeding the info into their ears. They have access to race radio, high definition screens, etc. They also have so many days of racing televised and loads of websites with the latest news.
If you are a cycling commentator that is a JOB. That means you should be doing research for your job, which you are presumably well paid to do. For me that would include watching other televised races that you aren't commentating on, learning how to identify riders based on their riding style, and actually reading the latest news before you start commentary, as well as cycling magazines. So many times Carlton has been talking during a stage and clearly knows nothing about news that has been reported on not just every cycling website, but even BBC Sport.
So often with Carlton you feel that he just turns up in the morning with little preparation and wings it.
It's exactly this - Hatch and Quigly know their stuff, and it shows. On the odd occasion Hatch calls the wrong rider, he'll admit it - CK will bang on and on for ages, persisting with the wrong name, when half the viewers have by then clocked it's not them. Added to the already pointed out ridiculous screaming at completely the wrong time / reason. He also anchors on 1 or 2 incidents about a rider and repeats them every time they race - he laments Stijn Devolder's supposed persistent 'bad luck' because he saw him crash in the RVV a couple of times one year. Totally ignoring Stijn's rather good fortune on the occasions he won the same bl00dy race.
Use Hatch, Quigly and Stephens, and let CK stick to something he actually has an interest in learning about, rather than just taking the gig for the £.0 -
squired wrote:There are some terrible commentators out there. I think it may have been Matt Rendell on the Bike Channel solo, who was absolutely terrible, but that was partly due to needing someone beside him. Carlton is terrible for his own reasons.
These days the commentators have so much to make their jobs easier. Instead of needing everything written down on paper, they can access info via computers, or have people on computers feeding the info into their ears. They have access to race radio, high definition screens, etc. They also have so many days of racing televised and loads of websites with the latest news.
If you are a cycling commentator that is a JOB. That means you should be doing research for your job, which you are presumably well paid to do. For me that would include watching other televised races that you aren't commentating on, learning how to identify riders based on their riding style, and actually reading the latest news before you start commentary, as well as cycling magazines. So many times Carlton has been talking during a stage and clearly knows nothing about news that has been reported on not just every cycling website, but even BBC Sport.
So often with Carlton you feel that he just turns up in the morning with little preparation and wings it.
One of the best examples of CK not doing his homework was at Catalunya (iirc) in 2014 or so. I could check up but I don't get paid to commentate or comment! Anyway Sky had signed Sebastian Henao that winter but this news had passed CK by. At the same time Sergio had been 'rested' by Sky. Anyway, S. Henao appears on the Sky starters screen and Kirby nearly keeled over in shock. He had no idea what this meant as he was 'on the naughty step'. This led to a conversation, again iirc, with Maggy about whether Sky were sticking a finger up at the UCI by racing him. Enter Rob hatch on Twitter to point out the identity of the Colombian in question - a tweet they read out on TV. Seriously, Catalunya is well into the season. And despite his Anglocentric focus he had completely missed Sky signing a second Henao...0 -
^its THIS plus his shrieking that make me either mute ES or watch via any other broadcaster feed
He does not one shred of research. And there's no point in saying it's the sole role of the expert co-commentator to know what's going on. Kirby makes his living from sports commentary and should bloody well do some reading up0 -
Richmond Racer 2 wrote:^its THIS plus his shrieking that make me either mute ES or watch via any other broadcaster feed
He does not one shred of research. And there's no point in saying it's the sole role of the expert co-commentator to know what's going on. Kirby makes his living from sports commentary and should bloody well do some reading up
Spot on. He is ill-informed and far too much of a supporter of certain teams and riders to be able to provide decent neutral commentary.
He lost any shred of credibility he ever had when he had his rant about Floyd Landis during the Tour of California. Even Fliggett would have been embarrassed by how far up Armstrongs rear end he seemed to place himself. And he doesn't seem to have learned from this, given the sh1tstorm flying around Team Sky at the moment, it's just lucky it's the off season or his commentary would be even more unwatchable than usual.0 -
VinnyMarsden wrote:The thing is...everyone slams him...but I bet all the haters, with absolutely no experience of broadcasting/commentating would jump at doing the job, and be equally as "crap" at it as they constantly remind us that CK is..I personally find him 70% informative, and the stuff he gets wrong..well, we made a national treasure out of the F1 guy Murray Walker and he was totally unreliable, but it mad it all the more amusing...people need to stop the hating..CK has a job, he tries his best in very trying circs..and so what if he makes a bit of stuff up to act as a filler, no one is going to die, it won't alter the race outcome, and ultimately we all get to know the result "officially" a short time after the finish.
I've got to be honest, if anyone recalls Phil Neville trying to commentate in the World Cup in Rio...well, theres an example of a guy who knows his facts etc, but his delivery made Prime Ministers Question time on a wet feb afternoon seem almost orgasmic, so the knowledgable ex pro angle doesn't always work, look at Sean Kelly, lots of experience, a proven winner, knows his onions, but god is he boring!!
I personally wouldn't want to try commentary, its fast paced for dynamic sports and needs you to have a lot of ability to fill the pauses with filler..look at the stuff we learn along the TDF route, who knew they all had so much knowledge about French chateuas/churches etc!! It's all in the pre race info and they just read it off the guide as the chopper zooms in, but CK likes to use anecdotes, other info..so what!! Mute the sound and listen to some thrash metal if he annoys you so much.
I've never understood this argument. His career is to commentate on cycling (and maybe some other sports though he seems to have been ditched by those). In what other line of work would someone defend your lack of competence in your chosen career by saying 'but it's a hard job and you couldn't do it any better'? If a friend or family member had a misdiagnosis from their doctor would you argue what a hard job being a doctor is and that you or they would do an even worse job?
If he was an amateur going their best to keep us informed then I could understand the 'he's doing his best and none of us would be any better' routine but he's supposedly a professional and should be better prepared / informed than he is.0 -
Dupe0
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You know what...I'm going to change my mind... I am allowed to do that..lol..I'm grown up..and I can also accept I might have kind of given him a free pass. I don't dispute what anyone is saying at all, he is all over the place, I tend to watch and listen music so, don't hear him too often, but thinking back, its phrases like "look at Eddy Bos", and other pet nicknames...and "light it up" that made me stop listening to him.What I'm saying is, I fully get why he gets under people's skin, I just choose not to listen to him, hence I did kind of overprotect him...lol!!!0
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VinnyMarsden wrote:You know what...I'm going to change my mind... I am allowed to do that..
No shame in doing so, either. In fact, given the way that 99.99% of arguments seem to go in the world these days, its probably one of the most heartening things anyone can write.
Meanwhile, i suspect commentary is one of those gigs where connections and experience count for far more than ability. It's not like TV producers have a huge talent pool of lower-league commentators that they can poach, and even those that there are will be covering stuff live at the course, which might not translate to TV - and might not do them any favours in terms of the information available.0 -
was Carlton onsite for the Adbu Dhabi Tour ? he made some comments that made it sound like he was.
What i've noticed about CK is that when he is onsite it never adds anything to the broadcast. At least during the TdU we had Phil telling you things the riders had said to him in the hotel and he was using being onsite to add something. With Ck all we got was that Dan Martin wouldn't go on the roller coaster at Ferrari World !! Hardly telling us anything about tactics or form of the riders and typical CK.0 -
Well his annual jolly to Turkey is off, so maybe.
But he made comments that sounded like he was on site at Ruta del Sol, which he certainly wasn't0 -
he was commentating on the World speed skating championships in Calgary as well at the weekend, so I suspect stuck in Eurosport towers0
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Part of Carlton's schtick is to kid on he is there - jokes about dinner, the local wine being consumed etc.... In some cases he is speaking from experience as he is well-travelled and up until the 2016 season he went to all the big Italian races to commentate on site for RCS (also including Dubai and perhaps first year of Abu Dhabi? Can't recall if it was on in 2015) - this audio was never used by British Eurosport though so it gave viewers a reprieve for the Giro etc. Ned Boulting has that gig now and Kirby is now firmly glued into the Eurosport pilot seat for the season.
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.0 -
argyllflyer wrote:
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.
Bit dangerous sending people over to Turkey given they might get confused with a journalist and end up in prison.0 -
Most of the journalists at the Tour of Turkey are on an all-expenses holiday courtesy of the government.Rick Chasey wrote:argyllflyer wrote:
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.
Bit dangerous sending people over to Turkey given they might get confused with a journalist and end up in prison.Twitter: @RichN950 -
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I am ok with CK bless him. He is what he is. I love the way he prattles on for hours about absolutely nothing during the mind crushing tedium of most pro races and gets all excited and flustered during the 10 minutes or so when anything is actually happening. And his love /hate relationship with Brian. It even made several days of flat and sand passably interesting. Long may he reign, a legendary broadcaster...0
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Mikey23 wrote:I am ok with CK bless him. He is what he is. I love the way he prattles on for hours about absolutely nothing during the mind crushing tedium of most pro races and gets all excited and flustered during the 10 minutes or so when anything is actually happening. And his love /hate relationship with Brian. It even made several days of flat and sand passably interesting. Long may he reign, a legendary broadcaster...
Honestly, if you thought WCF was bad, this kind of chat winds me up infinitely more.
I'm still convinced it's trolling. No-one who knows and enjoys pro cycling can enjoy this commentary.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Mikey23 wrote:I am ok with CK bless him. He is what he is. I love the way he prattles on for hours about absolutely nothing during the mind crushing tedium of most pro races and gets all excited and flustered during the 10 minutes or so when anything is actually happening. And his love /hate relationship with Brian. It even made several days of flat and sand passably interesting. Long may he reign, a legendary broadcaster...
Honestly, if you thought WCF was bad, this kind of chat winds me up infinitely more.
I'm still convinced it's trolling. No-one who knows and enjoys pro cycling can enjoy this commentary.
eurosport player actually had a second channel with no commentary for several stages - and whilst I am not good enough to spot most of the riders (well at least not the teamleaders/famous faces) - it was bliss. The sound of the bikes and the tyre noise on tarmac with the occasional voice from the peleton was seriously relaxing - whale song for the roadie0 -
Hahahahhaha yes excellent. Maybe that's why they send him :shock:Rick Chasey wrote:argyllflyer wrote:
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.
Bit dangerous sending people over to Turkey given they might get confused with a journalist and end up in prison.0 -
Hahahahhaha yes excellent. Maybe that's why they send him :shock:Rick Chasey wrote:argyllflyer wrote:
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.
Bit dangerous sending people over to Turkey given they might get confused with a journalist and end up in prison.0 -
argyllflyer wrote:Part of Carlton's schtick is to kid on he is there - jokes about dinner, the local wine being consumed etc.... In some cases he is speaking from experience as he is well-travelled and up until the 2016 season he went to all the big Italian races to commentate on site for RCS (also including Dubai and perhaps first year of Abu Dhabi? Can't recall if it was on in 2015) - this audio was never used by British Eurosport though so it gave viewers a reprieve for the Giro etc. Ned Boulting has that gig now and Kirby is now firmly glued into the Eurosport pilot seat for the season.
I think I'm right in saying that Eurosport only send people to Turkey (if it reappears), Paris-Nice, Paris-Roubaix, Tour de Suisse and Tour de France. Not sure if they even bother for the races in UK.
if you are onsite then it's a golden opportunity to add something extra to the broadcast. When I sit next to one of our commentators, he goes off and chats to the drivers, press officers etc. He gathers notes he can use in the broadcast, the sort of thing he can't do just from reading twitter.
With Ck I get the feeling he hasn't done any prep at all. He never seems to chat to a rider about form, or get any info from the press officers at the events.
Ona GT waffling on about wine, food etc is ok, but on a short one hour broadcast he should be more prepared than he is.0 -
Quoting Rick from the Strade Bianche thread as it's so true:Rick Chasey wrote:4) why on earth was Kirby discussing skin colours of Italians and English people when the leaders were starting the final gravel section? Why on earth was he discussing skin colours?
Here's a classic. Kiwa is, according to the clock, 20 seconds clear, and it looks it too. He crests the hill and sticks the big ring on so his cadence slows. Kirby: "maybe he's waiting for the group to come back to take his chances in a 1 in 4 shoot out. he's got a decent sprint so maybe he's doing that." YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND RACING. WHY ARE YOU COMMENTATING ON THIS?
Oh another one: "this race has more elevation that paris roubaix'. OK. ARE WHEELS ROUND TOO?
Why is he going on about Italian cantons at 4km to go?
After 10 mins in the attack, he says about Kiwa: "he's going for it'. FFS.
At 1.5km to go. "he trusts his machine, so at least that' something less to worry about". WTF?
At 200m to go, over 30 seconds clear. "he's starting to believe". what?
Christ he's a f*cking moron.
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