What is n+1 (when 1= missus agreeing if you lose weight)

DonDaddyD
DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
edited January 2014 in Commuting chat
OK long story short, I've put on a little too much weight and need to get back into the cycling. I was going to blame this and that, but bottomline 'Rule 76: No excuses play like a champion'. Thus I have put on weight, I must now lose weight and keep it off.

I've set myself a goal, if I lose 2 stone I can get a new bike. Ms DDD has agreed to this (obviously thinking about the added bedroom prowess my increased stamina would bring... I digress).

I like to visualise these things. I haven't kept an eye on new bikes and back in the day CAADs were what you got if you wanted aluminium with 105 at around the £1000 mark. If I hit my goal I want a nice alu bike (road bike, none of this CX or hybridflat bar bollocks. A proper bike, a man's bike) with 105 at around the £1000 mark, what bikes (manufacturer/models) should I be looking at. (I may need to go for a slightly longer headtube to match my Giant SCR for comfort - getting old).

Thanks in advance.
Food Chain number = 4

A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
«1345

Comments

  • il_principe
    il_principe Posts: 9,155
    Canyon.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Canyon.
    For real, I always thought these were beyond me. Like you had to be in a elite group.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Why does it have to be aluminium? Planet X are doing a carbon road bike with Ultegra for a grand...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Canyon.
    For real, I always thought these were beyond me. Like you had to be in a elite group.
    Nah, they're for commoners too. I'm thinking of a Canyon next when I get back on the bike a bit more. Their alu frames are supposedly great (as are their carbon)

    Around £1000. As in rounds down to £1000? As in up to £1499.99?
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    TGOTB,

    I would like aluminium (or titanium) for my next bike. I sold my carbon months ago, I have a weight target to achieve for its replacement as well.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    I would like aluminium (or titanium) for my next bike
    Why? Titanium I can understand, but why choose aluminium over carbon for any reason other than cost?
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    TGOTB,

    I would like aluminium (or titanium) for my next bike. I sold my carbon months ago, I have a weight target to achieve for its replacement as well.

    Ugh! You aren't allowed to downgrade. The only acceptable material post carbon is steel (or bamboo!).
    Faster than a tent.......
  • Ehhh... sorry. 1k limit, aluminium with 105.

    One bike is that out of the box - alas I already have it so you can cry a little being second - but it's the hoy sa calobra 003.
    Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
    The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Ehhh... sorry. 1k limit, aluminium with 105.

    One bike is that out of the box - alas I already have it so you can cry a little being second - but it's the hoy sa calobra 003.
    Or for £100 less, also with 105
    Or for £200 more, with Ultegra or Athena
    http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/ser ... te-al.html
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • k1875
    k1875 Posts: 485
    TGOTB wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    I would like aluminium (or titanium) for my next bike
    Why? Titanium I can understand, but why choose aluminium over carbon for any reason other than cost?

    Carbon melts in the rain, dunnit.
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    dhope wrote:
    Or for £100 less, also with 105
    Or for £200 more, with Ultegra or Athena
    http://www.canyon.com/_en/roadbikes/ser ... te-al.html

    Idiot! You should know better than to mention Athena in a thread posted by DDD.......... :lol:
    Faster than a tent.......
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    k1875 wrote:
    Carbon melts in the rain, dunnit.
    Doh! Of course, silly me.....
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • j_mcd
    j_mcd Posts: 473
    If there was a scale (and I wish there was) from the more comfortable geometry end of the market (such as my Spesh Allez) to the sportier racing end of the market (perhaps a Felt or something along those lines) where would Canyons come on such a scale?

    Because I like the look of them but am not sure my back could cope with a fully slammed bars and a really racey position.
    Giant Defy Advanced 0 - Best
    Planet X London Road - Wet
    Montague Fit - Foldy thing that rarely gets used these days
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Wow so many responses.

    OK, TGOTB, is £1000 carbon really better than £1000 aluminium? The debate goes on. I've had both (though my carbon was more expesive) and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.

    dhope, we all know that £1000 bike budget rounds down then up...

    Also, I will never own a bike with Claris or Athena, do I look like a man with a vagina? Male groupsets should be called Ares, Zeus, Thor, Odin, Mjolnir, Hulk or straight up 'Campag, Thunder-Rage-Cyclone' and Shimano 'Circular-Sonic-Warhead'. Cool sh*t like that, not f*cking Athena.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,552
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Wow so many responses.

    OK, TGOTB, is £1000 carbon really better than £1000 aluminium? The debate goes on. I've had both (though my carbon was more expesive) and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.

    dhope, we all know that £1000 bike budget rounds down then up...

    Also, I will never own a bike with Claris or Athena, do I look like a man with a vagina? Male groupsets should be called Ares, Zeus, Thor, Odin, Mjolnir, Hulk or straight up 'Campag, Thunder-Rage-Cyclone' and Shimano 'Circular-Sonic-Warhead'. Cool sh*t like that, not f*cking Athena.
    Possibly not, but you've practically admitted to having grown boobs in the op.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    You are on my list.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK, TGOTB, is £1000 carbon really better than £1000 aluminium? The debate goes on. I've had both (though my carbon was more expesive) and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.
    What I was really getting at, is why have the material as one of the central criteria? The debate about whether £1000 carbon is better than £1000 aluminium is almost impossible to answer, and largely irrelevant. What you really want, is to put together a shortlist of bikes and then ask whether bike A is better than bike B.

    Stipulating an aluminium frame makes about as much sense as stipulating a Hollowtech bottom bracket. The best bike for your requirements might well have either or both of those, but equally it might not. More to the point, why is the frame material more important than frame geometry (the criteria for which you've told us nothing about)?
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • dhope
    dhope Posts: 6,699
    Veronese68 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Wow so many responses.

    OK, TGOTB, is £1000 carbon really better than £1000 aluminium? The debate goes on. I've had both (though my carbon was more expesive) and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.

    dhope, we all know that £1000 bike budget rounds down then up...

    Also, I will never own a bike with Claris or Athena, do I look like a man with a vagina? Male groupsets should be called Ares, Zeus, Thor, Odin, Mjolnir, Hulk or straight up 'Campag, Thunder-Rage-Cyclone' and Shimano 'Circular-Sonic-Warhead'. Cool sh*t like that, not f*cking Athena.
    Possibly not, but you've practically admitted to having grown boobs in the op.

    Sooo, DDD is now his cup size? :twisted:
    Rose Xeon CW Disc
    CAAD12 Disc
    Condor Tempo
  • rolf_f
    rolf_f Posts: 16,015
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    .....and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.

    What exactly is it you intend for this bike that aluminium suits and carbon doesn't? For it to go 'ping ping' rather than 'thack thack' when you tap it with a spoon?
    Faster than a tent.......
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    edited January 2014
    TGOTB wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK, TGOTB, is £1000 carbon really better than £1000 aluminium? The debate goes on. I've had both (though my carbon was more expesive) and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.
    What I was really getting at, is why have the material as one of the central criteria? The debate about whether £1000 carbon is better than £1000 aluminium is almost impossible to answer, and largely irrelevant. What you really want, is to put together a shortlist of bikes and then ask whether bike A is better than bike B.

    Stipulating an aluminium frame makes about as much sense as stipulating a Hollowtech bottom bracket. The best bike for your requirements might well have either or both of those, but equally it might not. More to the point, why is the frame material more important than frame geometry (the criteria for which you've told us nothing about)?
    Because I want an aluminium bike with 105 for around £1000. I did say road bike and longer headtube. Surely, that's enough geometry details needed.

    Thing is, I see purcahsing a bike as a purchase of passion. Yes there are some requirements that have to be met, but I don't want to get all utilitarian about it. I want to get blind-excited about the purchase and the only way to do that is for some of the decisions not to make sense.

    I want an aluminium bike, when I buy it I'm going to fall in love with it and love it always. Just like the guy who buys his first Golf GTI, and chooses petrol over diesel, manual over automatic (why does he do this, because....). The reasons why are almost secondary, its a bike and its job is already done if it rides well. The rest of it is about what I want to love. And for this bike that's aluminium and 105. Carbon and Titanium will follow.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • MrSweary
    MrSweary Posts: 1,699
    As the proud owner of a 2014 Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 with full Ultegra I'd say save up the extra £250 - or offer your wife extra bedroom favours. Whatever works for you.

    p.s. Ignore traditional sizing with the Roadlites. You may well need a size larger than you might have otherwise considered.
    Kinesis Racelite 4s disc
    Kona Paddy Wagon
    Canyon Roadlite Al 7.0 - reborn as single speed!
    Felt Z85 - mangled by taxi.
  • Rolf F wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    .....and this time want alu for what I intend for this bike.

    What exactly is it you intend for this bike that aluminium suits and carbon doesn't? For it to go 'ping ping' rather than 'thack thack' when you tap it with a spoon?

    he wants a ping ping so he can lose weight and do more thwack thwack'ing
    Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
    The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]
  • DonDaddyD wrote:
    You are on my list.


    You might consider modifying your sig as well, sounds a bit grandiose for someone whose admitted being out of the game for quite a while :wink:
  • edhornby
    edhornby Posts: 1,780
    Phillipe Gilbert was winning races in 2011 on the canyon Ultimate Al - it's a good frame
    Cadel Evans rode what is the PlanetX stealth TT bike in the tour de france (2005 I think?) sprayed up as a ridley

    carbon vs Al is a whole load of spurious :D making sure it fits is way more important

    cannondales are good Alu, Giant Defy are supposed to be good too, assuming the geometry works for you
    "I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
    --Jens Voight
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 28,453
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    You are on my list.


    You might consider modifying your sig as well, sounds a bit grandiose for someone whose admitted being out of the game for quite a while :wink:

    DDD? Grandiose? That's pretty much his raison d'être isn't it?
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Because I want an aluminium bike with 105 for around £1000. I did say road bike and longer headtube. Surely, that's enough geometry details needed.

    Thing is, I see purcahsing a bike as a purchase of passion. Yes there are some requirements that have to be met, but I don't want to get all utilitarian about it. I want to get blind-excited about the purchase and the only way to do that is for some of the decisions not to make sense.

    I want an aluminium bike, when I buy it I'm going to fall in love with it and love it always. Just like the guy who buys his first Golf GTI, and chooses petrol over diesel, manual over automatic (why does he do this, because....). The reasons why are almost secondary, its a bike and its job is already done if it rides well. The rest of it is about what I want to love. And for this bike that's aluminium and 105. Carbon and Titanium will follow.
    Ah, ok, makes sense now. In that case you surely need to tell us what colour it has to be too. Black or silver spokes? What colour saddle? What country or geographical area does it have to be built in? (ie does it have to be Italian or Belgium, will any European manufacturer do etc etc)
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • veronese68
    veronese68 Posts: 27,552
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    ... Just like the guy who buys his first Golf GTI, and chooses petrol over diesel, manual over automatic (why does he do this, because....)...
    Because a GTI is a sporty car and those are the sporty choices. Choosing ali is not a similar kind of decision as ali is not sportier than any other material necessarily. I ride an ali bike with 105 that cost more than £1k so I'm not knocking it as a choice, just questioning the reasoning behind it. I bought mine because it was the right bike for me, I don't think there was a carbon framed disc braked bike available at my price point. I could have bought steel, and nearly did, weight was the only thing that went against it.
    Oh, and no need to put me on your Christmas card list. I rarely do mine so would end up feeling bad.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    TGOTB wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Because I want an aluminium bike with 105 for around £1000. I did say road bike and longer headtube. Surely, that's enough geometry details needed.

    Thing is, I see purcahsing a bike as a purchase of passion. Yes there are some requirements that have to be met, but I don't want to get all utilitarian about it. I want to get blind-excited about the purchase and the only way to do that is for some of the decisions not to make sense.

    I want an aluminium bike, when I buy it I'm going to fall in love with it and love it always. Just like the guy who buys his first Golf GTI, and chooses petrol over diesel, manual over automatic (why does he do this, because....). The reasons why are almost secondary, its a bike and its job is already done if it rides well. The rest of it is about what I want to love. And for this bike that's aluminium and 105. Carbon and Titanium will follow.
    Ah, ok, makes sense now. In that case you surely need to tell us what colour it has to be too. Black or silver spokes? What colour saddle? What country or geographical area does it have to be built in? (ie does it have to be Italian or Belgium, will any European manufacturer do etc etc)


    Geez, can't a guy just want an aluminium bike and be pointed to the best ones? I don't want carbon, I've had carbon, a very nice piece of carbon. For this bike I want aluminium. And I don't want planet X, compact frames look like a BMX.

    As for your other questions, preferably black, with Fulcrum 5 (they still make those right?) and a red saddle. I'd quite like this bike to be made in the Germany - Belgium area of Europe, but the frame is probably going to be from Taiwan anyway so THAT isn't essential.


    I'll test ride and take it from there interms of geometry (I did say longer headtube, which means more relaxed geometry than say a CAAD 10 or alu tarmac), maybe Canyon and I won't agree but I've been around long enough to know you test ride bikes to find out which geometry and ride suits. It's simply nice to be pointed to some brands in the first place, I wouldn't have thought Canyon.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Ridley Icarus? Pearson doing a good deal on last year's model with 105.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Veronese68 wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    ... Just like the guy who buys his first Golf GTI, and chooses petrol over diesel, manual over automatic (why does he do this, because....)...
    Because a GTI is a sporty car and those are the sporty choices. Choosing ali is not a similar kind of decision as ali is not sportier than any other material necessarily.

    It is to me.
    I ride an ali bike with 105 that cost more than £1k so I'm not knocking it as a choice, just questioning the reasoning behind it. I bought mine because it was the right bike for me, I don't think there was a carbon framed disc braked bike available at my price point. I could have bought steel, and nearly did, weight was the only thing that went against it.
    Oh, and no need to put me on your Christmas card list. I rarely do mine so would end up feeling bad.

    Without getting anymore pithy, I didn't realise that I had to justify my rationale for wanting aluminium beyond "I want my next bike to aluminium and this is how much I want to spend". Sure, suggest carbon, but after I've reinforced my position (knowing I've already had a carbon bike and been around here for several years) surely that's got to be the end of it.

    Everyones reasoning is going to be specific to them.

    Anyway, ew, discs on a road bike, nothing is sacred.

    So Canyon, can you get them on the cycle to work scheme?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game