World Championship - ***SPOILERS***

durhamwasp

mroli wrote:

durhamwasp wrote:

Absolutely embarrassing that GB didn't have a single rider willing to finish the race, and then to blame the rain just rubbed salt in...

It was a miserable day and no-one was going to win or podium. Staying out there just ran the risk of you having a big crash that at the least ends your season and disrupts your winter training. These guys have had a long season and want to put their feet up with their families and have some quality downtime. Hard to do that with broken limbs...

No problem with anyone retiring having given it a crack...

Can't agree with a word of that. It was the world championships, and you have to be in it to win it. If Rui Costa could complete the race and win, why couldn't a Brit. If you want to be the world champion you have to put everything on the line - broken bones included. A season ending crash? This is the end of the season.

JTL...

gpreeves

hammerite wrote:

gpreeves wrote:

What did surprise me was that while none of the British riders made the initial selection, a 25 year old Romanian (without any team mates) managed to hang onto that group until the penultimate lap.

that was my thought too, here he is..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Nechita
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=8973&year=2013&all=1&current=0

He took the other classic approach to preparing for the Worlds, riding in the Tour of Szeklerland this August. Gutsy ride from him today to stay in there so long, and finished a minute ahead of Thibaut Pinot.

ddraver

I'm sorry if I ve got the wrong end of the stick but people seem to be surprised that a Brit did nt win the World Championships on a course that does nt suit a single current british Rider?

You re surprised that that well known British Hilly Classics Star did nt shine??

Really???

I confess that I would nt have picked Rui Costa if I was a betting man (which I'm not) but when I heard the news on Dutch radio it made total sense

Paul 8v

RichN95 wrote:

Mikey23 wrote:

I was disappointed and embarrassed ... These guys are supposed to be the best we have and get paid and nurtured enough as pro racers. Yes the weather conditions were quite appalling and dangerous but so they were for everybody. I wouldn't have gone out in that but I ain't a pro. You just have to get on and do it, even if you come last.. Like Taylor phinney did last year...

Reminded me of little of the England football team at times... Overpaid underperforming prima donnas

Between them they have won:
2 Tours de France
6 Grand Tour Podiums
1 World Championship
6 Olympic Gold medals
52 Grand Tour stages
3 Grand Tour Points Jerseys
1 Monument
6 Other World Tour stage races

Eight years ago the GB team rode for the Italians and we were pretending Magnus Backstedt was British.

You're like one of those spoilt rich kids who has a tantrum because the Porsche they got for their 18th birthday was the wrong colour,

This is so true, when I was a kid there were maybe a maximum of three British riders in the peloton and the only one that won anything was Boardman. Cycling would never have been on the BBC and they certainly would never have mentioned it in the newspapers!

ddraver

Post of the Day Rich!

afx237vi

Ellingworth seems miffed.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/s ... ris-froome

adr82

durhamwasp wrote:

Can't agree with a word of that. It was the world championships, and you have to be in it to win it. If Rui Costa could complete the race and win, why couldn't a Brit. If you want to be the world champion you have to put everything on the line - broken bones included. A season ending crash? This is the end of the season.

JTL...

In it to win it??? The point here is that after Froome got dropped they weren't "in it"! And crashing at the end of the season can damage your ability to train for the start of next season.

@gpreeves: thanks for explaining my last post

TheEnglishman

Speaking as an outsider who doesn't fully understand cycling races I have to say there needs to be a fair amount of PR/explanation as to why riders dropped out. It doesn't happen in many sports where people quit half way through.

It just doesn't look good. Sorry, but there it is.

RichN95.

TheEnglishman wrote:

Speaking as an outsider who doesn't fully understand cycling races I have to say there needs to be a fair amount of PR/explanation as to why riders dropped out. It doesn't happen in many sports where people quit half way through.

Cycling is 'many sports', though. Do you want an explanation from all of the 146 riders that didn't finish or just the British ones?

RoadPainter

afx237vi wrote:

Ellingworth seems miffed.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/s ... ris-froome

Unsurprising. If I had DS' d a team of outsiders (at best) using those bizarre tactics, I'd want to deflect attention elsewhere too.

It might have been too tough a route for Stannard (and too soon since injury for G) but we should have found that out

Bo Duke

Wiggo set the tone and it appears the others took the easy way out (with some exceptions). Wiggo needs to decide whether he's in or out and if he's out, declare that so other riders can take his place.

There were some senior GT riders still there at the end - the usual gritty suspects so I find strange our lads couldn't have competed better. Even Tommy V put in a turn at the front dancing on the pedals and grimacing across at the camera bike to his global housewife audience.

RichN95.

Bo Duke wrote:

There were some senior GT riders still there at the end - the usual gritty suspects so I find strange our lads couldn't have competed better.

Yeah, those GT riders had just done the Vuelta. You know how many Tour winners have even turned up for the Worlds since they moved to September in 1995? Four - Indurain and Riis in the first two years and then nobody for 16 years until Wiggins last year.
A Tour winner has commercial demands which are not conducive to preparing properly for the Worlds.

Le Commentateur

What could have been...

dwanes

These Sky boys remind of those Over-paid footballers who are only up for a big game, and as soon as they have to play a lower league club in a cup game they think they are above it.
I think their luxury bus and lives in general are becoming too cosy and It is becoming too much about the money.

islwyn

Soooo... I missed this yesteday as I was out - did catch the last 4km though, is it worth me rewatching to see Britain drop or did I see the best bit?

ddraver

There are a few people on here who need to watch a lot more cycling (Iainf, 2006-2013...)

Really feeling for J-Rod, don't think I ve ever seen anyone look so crushed to have lost.

Full credit to Rich for introducing a bit of reality into the discussion!

ddraver

DP - somewhat flabbergasted by the attitudes here...

ugo.santalucia

dwanes wrote:

These Sky boys remind of those Over-paid footballers who are only up for a big game, and as soon as they have to play a lower league club in a cup game they think they are above it.
I think their luxury bus and lives in general are becoming too cosy and It is becoming too much about the money.

Nonsense.. I'd like to see you living their "luxurious" life for one day... I'm sure you'll run to the comfort of your house very quickly...

Unlike footballers, cyclists don't fly first class, don't stay at the five star Park Plaza in the middle of town (I have seen more than one team at the 2 star Campanile hotels in France) and there is nothing luxurious about a glorified coach.

I can't blame Wiggins and Froome for pulling out from a race they didn't have a chance to win... an injury can jeopardise next season... they are athletes not gladiators, FFS!!!

blazing_saddles

ddraver wrote:

I'm sorry if I ve got the wrong end of the stick but people seem to be surprised that a Brit did nt win the World Championships on a course that does nt suit a single current british Rider?

Well, at least your first sentence was correct: wrong end of the stick. No one has even suggested that a Brit might podium, let alone win.

ddraver wrote:

There are a few people on here who need to watch a lot more cycling (Iainf, 2006-2013...)

Really feeling for J-Rod, don't think I ve ever seen anyone look so crushed to have lost.

Full credit to Rich for introducing a bit of reality into the discussion!

I think I qualify on having watched one heck of a lot of cycling over a heck of a long time.
Surprisingly, it doesn't lead to me automatically holding the same opinion as you, or Iain.
Reality is that GB had the largest team to get zero riders over the finishing line.
That's dead last.
So, comments expressing disappointment at this fact are to be expected
and, imo, justified.

ddraver

I'm sure Froome is gutted he missed out on 34th place...

DeVlaeminck

It's not that they pulled out having been dropped, it's that they were dropped so easily in the first place. Yes Wiggins and Froome have achieved great things but yesterday was poor. Froome was the team leader, physically there is no reason he couldn't have been in the front group on the last lap and from there you have a chance even if it's not a big one.

For Wiggins his descending at the Giro and his inability to hold a position in the bunch here puts a massive question mark over any ambitions he may have on the road. The fact he used to be at least a reasonable bike handler does make you wonder if maybe he just doesn't want it enough now.

le_patron

Yes riding around in the rain for 7 hours with a high risk of a crash and zero risk of a placing is pointless.
But I’m still not sure what the plan was.
If no-one had the legs, then at least hide for a long as possible, follow wheels and see what happens.
Riding hard for 100k’s to make the race even tougher just ensured everyone was back in the bus that little bit sooner, in which case it was well executed (if that was the objective).
Post-race interviews didn’t help. But the BBC were glad they hired Jonathan Edwards to front that broadcast, he was probably briefed that ‘it’s like the Olympics or the Marathon, we’ll do well, prepare to do some flag waving’.

It did look really horrible, 272 km’s, 3600 metres of climbing and in the pi$$ing rain for almost 8 hrs. Wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Any ounce of doubt come to the surface.
The comment about the irony of Brits not being able to ride in the rain...comedy.

ddraver

le patron wrote:

But I’m still not sure what the plan was.
If no-one had the legs, then at least hide for a long as possible, follow wheels and see what happens.
Riding hard for 100k’s to make the race even tougher just ensured everyone was back in the bus that little bit sooner, in which case it was well executed (if that was the objective).

One of the few criticisms of Sky/GB that I accept is that when they re riding races that, if they re honest, they suck at, they seem to believe that their only option is to "ride hard on the front"

Sometimes they need to, as you say, hide in the bunch and see what unfolds, but then that's never been the Brailsford way...

salsiccia1

Some of the stuff on here is unbelievable. You do wonder if some of the commenters have any understanding of bike racing.

If a riders not on form, then on a course like that it's easy to miss the split. There were only 20-odd riders in the lead group on the last climb to Fiesole, and that is because riders were getting dropped. The course in the Worlds is usually really tough, and this one tougher than most.

Very few Worlds end up with more than 50% finishers - why bother riding past your team bus 6-7 times, risking crashes and getting freezing cold in pissing-pouring rain when you're not on form and not going to catch the lead group?

I'd question the tactics rather than the riders.

NervexProf

Contrast the British apologia with the Aussie view !

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/simon-c ... n-florence

above_the_cows

Ellingworth: "I'm sure Brad will be disappointed with his performance. It's not [that] he hasn't got the form. He went out the back on [the early climb of] San Baronto. The writing was on the wall then, to be honest."

The climb on the way to Florence, the climb that Cav led the peloton up. This is poor.

I'm not critiquing Froome for pulling out when he was already a minute off the pace on the circuits etc., I totally understand that, but I am wondering about the commitment of some members of the team. I don't want to be one of those people who questions Wiggins' ability to ride for Froome, but you do start to wonder. You wonder as to the atmosphere that sort of thing does to a team. The weather is horrible, you're cold and then slowly your team mates disappear, the first one, barely 30k into the race, someone who is known to be a bit 'difficult' etc. etc. I'm pretty sure the 'team morale' was not exactly the same as it was for Copenhagen 2011. They could have done with fewer Sky boys perhaps and chucked Millar in to bang some heads together.

I also noticed that most of the riders that made it to the end were wearing rain jackets for a lot of the race and had long sleeves underneath. The GB riders did not. I thought at the time when Froome was being distanced that he looked freezing and drastically under dressed compared to others. Not sure it really matters but it is an observation nonetheless.

Interestingly aside from Costa, all the 'top riders' who made the final circuit etc. had team mates with them. The Belgian's, the Spaniards, the Italians, the Swiss, even EBH had Nordhaug so Froome's point about not having any team mates left while being a minute off the pace three laps in makes sense. Yes OK Costa went all the way with no team mates, but he has form in being a lone man do it himself stage winner in this type of thing (in GCs but still). Froome isn't that type of rider and that's OK.

GB doesn't have that type of rider and that's OK too.

amaferanga

Does anyone actually know what led to each of the British team abandoning? Did any of them just sit up cos they couldn't be ar$ed or were they caught out by various crashes, punctures, etc. so ended up behind the main bunch with no hope of getting back?

salsiccia1

Above The Cows wrote:

I'm not critiquing Froome for pulling out when he was already a minute off the pace on the circuits etc., I totally understand that, but I am wondering about the commitment of some members of the team. I don't want to be one of those people who questions Wiggins' ability to ride for Froome, but you do start to wonder. You wonder as to the atmosphere that sort of thing does to a team. The weather is horrible, you're cold and then slowly your team mates disappear, the first one, barely 30k into the race, someone who is known to be a bit 'difficult' etc. etc. I'm pretty sure the 'team morale' was not exactly the same as it was for Copenhagen 2011. They could have done with fewer Sky boys perhaps and chucked Millar in to bang some heads together.

All great points.

dwanes

ugo.santalucia wrote:

dwanes wrote:

These Sky boys remind of those Over-paid footballers who are only up for a big game, and as soon as they have to play a lower league club in a cup game they think they are above it.
I think their luxury bus and lives in general are becoming too cosy and It is becoming too much about the money.

Nonsense.. I'd like to see you living their "luxurious" life for one day... I'm sure you'll run to the comfort of your house very quickly...

Unlike footballers, cyclists don't fly first class, don't stay at the five star Park Plaza in the middle of town (I have seen more than one team at the 2 star Campanile hotels in France) and there is nothing luxurious about a glorified coach.

I can't blame Wiggins and Froome for pulling out from a race they didn't have a chance to win... an injury can jeopardise next season... they are athletes not gladiators, FFS!!!

I was talking about SKYs luxury life, not other teams FFS. Before you reply, sky bosses themselves admit to the pampering as part of their marginal gains policy.
Is Rui Costa now officaily a Gladiator?

above_the_cows

ddraver wrote:

One of the few criticisms of Sky/GB that I accept is that when they re riding races that, if they re honest, they suck at, they seem to believe that their only option is to "ride hard on the front"

Sometimes they need to, as you say, hide in the bunch and see what unfolds, but then that's never been the Brailsford way...

Yes, that is the one thing that doesn't make sense from a team tactic point of view.

It does however make sense to certain individual riders like Cav. Cav was never going to last on those circuits. He is going to the worlds to ride for the team, the only thing he can realistically do and importantly for 'brand Cav' be seen to be doing (and I think the 'being seen' is important - both the Dutch and Belgian commentators were singing Cav's praises as a man prepared to work hard for his team mates even when he is such a star, former world champ etc.) is to be working hard and that means sitting on the front on the bits where you can do that.

Of course cycling is at the end of the day a commercial sport. These riders ride for pro-teams, they are brands on wheels and those sorts of considerations can come into conflict with the more 'selfless sacrifice' demanded for the times when you are competing for your country like at the Worlds.