Pub Talk. Britain's greatest male road cyclist?

deejay

.
Completely OFF TOPIC and being Pedantic

mike6 wrote:

You never hear of the Americans agonizing over an American athletes heritage, they are proud of almost anyone who competes for there country.

What country is that, that they are proud of. ?
Is it anyone from the America's (North and South) or maybe a United States athlete's heritage. ?
Remember it's "Uh - Uh, USA"
The Country has the United States Constitution and the currency they use is the United States Dollar $ bill.

I know, I know they put their arm across the chest as they sing "God Bless America". ??
(maybe the Canadians or Mexicans are in the song)

PS - It's a United Kingdom Passport and not British. (Bloody Media)

Shackster

deejay wrote:

.
Completely OFF TOPIC and being Pedantic

mike6 wrote:

You never hear of the Americans agonizing over an American athletes heritage, they are proud of almost anyone who competes for there country.

What country is that, that they are proud of. ?
Is it anyone from the America's (North and South) or maybe a United States athlete's heritage. ?
Remember it's "Uh - Uh, USA"
The Country has the United States Constitution and the currency they use is the United States Dollar $ bill.

I know, I know they put their arm across the chest as they sing "God Bless America". ??
(maybe the Canadians or Mexicans are in the song)

PS - It's a United Kingdom Passport and not British. (Bloody Media)

If you're going to be pedantic you should know that you don't use apostrophes for plurals.

Tom Butcher

oneof1982 wrote:

Tom Butcher wrote:

...

I personally don't see him as British - there are different definitions of what it is to be British and mine would include having lived there at some point. quote]

And my point is (trying not to be rude) that what you think doesn't matter, as it is a matter of self determination. You decide what you are, he decides what he is, within certain rules of course.

If you mean he is free to ride for GB yes of course he is, just as I am free to choose who I consider British, and you are free to disagree with me. No of course it doesn't matter what i think any more than it matters what you think - it's a discussion on a forum and different opinions are allowed - this is not a matter of true or false unless you are taking a purely legal perspective on it - which obviously i am not.

Not that it matters except for the purposes of a discussion like this unless you happen to be in charge of national team selection.

greasedscotsman

deejay wrote:

He should have had 2 more MTF stage wins but on one he was mis-directed by an Idiot policeman...

If anyone was to blame for Millar not winning that stage, it wasn't the policeman, it was Millar for not looking at his roadbook!

RichN95.

greasedscotsman wrote:

deejay wrote:

He should have had 2 more MTF stage wins but on one he was mis-directed by an Idiot policeman...

If anyone was to blame for Millar not winning that stage, it wasn't the policeman, it was Millar for not looking at his roadbook!

I don't think he had it on him.

At the end of five or six hours in the saddle thorough the Pyrenees in 30 degree heat, it's not easy to have perfect recall of a map. The gendarme, on the other hand, had just one job to do and he screwed it up.

(And besides Bouvatier was in front of Millar)

greasedscotsman

RichN95 wrote:

At the end of five or six hours in the saddle thorough the Pyrenees in 30 degree heat, it's not easy to have perfect recall of a map.

Who said it's supposed to be easy?

RichN95 wrote:

The gendarme, on the other hand, had just one job to do and he screwed it up.

Allan Peiper doesn't seem to agree with you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ycZV8sqxw#t=3525

RichN95 wrote:

(And besides Bouvatier was in front of Millar)

I'll agree with you on that one. If both Bouvatier and Millar hadn't had gone off course, Bouvatier would have won.

mike6

deejay wrote:

.
Completely OFF TOPIC and being Pedantic

mike6 wrote:

You never hear of the Americans agonizing over an American athletes heritage, they are proud of almost anyone who competes for there country.

What country is that, that they are proud of. ?
Is it anyone from the America's (North and South) or maybe a United States athlete's heritage. ?
Remember it's "Uh - Uh, USA"
The Country has the United States Constitution and the currency they use is the United States Dollar $ bill.

I know, I know they put their arm across the chest as they sing "God Bless America". ??
(maybe the Canadians or Mexicans are in the song)

PS - It's a United Kingdom Passport and not British. (Bloody Media)

Yawn. :roll:

deejay

greasedscotsman wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

At the end of five or six hours in the saddle thorough the Pyrenees in 30 degree heat, it's not easy to have perfect recall of a map.

Who said it's supposed to be easy?

RichN95 wrote:

The gendarme, on the other hand, had just one job to do and he screwed it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ycZV8sqxw#t=3525

RichN95 wrote:

(And besides Bouvatier was in front of Millar)

I'll agree with you on that one. If both Bouvatier and Millar hadn't had gone off course, Bouvatier would have won.

I'm with you two and it seems my memory became a bit hazy but it was good to see it again.
Who was that "Domestic" on the front of the peloton riding for his team leader. ?
Why the guy who has been labeled a "Non Climber" many times since. Miguel Indurain. :roll:

mike6 wrote:

Yawn. :roll:

Move over I'll join you.

greasedscotsman

deejay wrote:

...but it was good to see it again.

It's worth watching for the interview with Sherwen!

Tom Dean

It's still Simpson for me. 3 monuments + WC

Cav 2nd with MSR, WC + sheer volume of wins.

Froome and Wiggins have won 1 big race each.

ocdupalais

Tom Dean wrote:

Froome and Wiggins have won 1 big race each.

That'll be the 1 big race that Simpson died trying to win - and who's memorial Froome passed on his way to crushing all challengers to his title in a performance display that the former would've, er...died for.

Having said that, I don't think Simpson would've looked quite as ridiculous as when Froome attacked Bertie...

deejay

OCDuPalais wrote:

Having said that, I don't think Simpson would've looked quite as ridiculous as when Froome attacked Bertie...

I think the word you need is "Panache" that Simpson had or maybe "Style".


This Quote may help you understand how it was with most of the peloton on Amphetamines. (you know, "everybody was on Drugs")

Alcohol was used as a stimulant and to dull pain. At the time, Tour organisers limited each rider to four bottles (bidons) of water (about two litres) two on the bike and two more given at feeding stations – the effects of dehydration being poorly understood. During races, riders raided roadside bars for drinks, and filled their bottles from fountains.

meursault

Tom Dean wrote:

It's still Simpson for me. 3 monuments + WC

Cav 2nd with MSR, WC + sheer volume of wins.

Froome and Wiggins have won 1 big race each.

This is beyond hilarious.

Like saying Hilary climbed a mountain, or Armstrong (The good one) was involved in the space programme.

mike6

Cavendish. He has won the most Pro races.

On Simpson. Yes he took amphetamines but the combination of "Driest is fastest" the mantra of the day, gastro entaritis (making him even more dehydrated) and 40 degree temperatures were the main cause. Coupled with his legendary ability to ride himself into extreme distress, add the pain masking of the drug and it would seem he simply dug far far too deep.

tailwindhome

*Bump*

I'm sticking with Cav - but only just now.

tonyf34

Greatest ever British Road cyclist isn't a male... http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... ysEArKzxzg

DeVlaeminck

Hrd to find much information on the women from that era, was there an international road racing scene outside of the world champs?

inseine

gsk82 wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I'd say froome has achieved more than wiggins on the road although, wiggins was obviously the trailblazer.

Chris Froome Palmares

Stage races
Tour de France (2013)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2013)
Tour de Romandie (2013)
Critérium International (2013)
Tour of Oman (2013)

Bradley Wiggins
Tour de France (2012)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
Paris–Nice (2012)
Tour de Romandie (2012)
One-day races and Classics
National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010)
National Road Race Championships (2011)

Between these two but depends how you define it. I'd say Wiggins but will quicky be over taken by Froome

i'd add in wiggins' 3rd in the tdf and vuelta and froomes 2nd in both, plus froome won on ventoux. if both finished now i agree it would be tight

For those ho thought it was tight, who'd have thought that a year on it would still be tight. Wiggins Worls TT title puts him right back up with Froome after his less than steller year (compared to expectations).

Tom Dean

meursault wrote:

Tom Dean wrote:

It's still Simpson for me. 3 monuments + WC

Cav 2nd with MSR, WC + sheer volume of wins.

Froome and Wiggins have won 1 big race each.

This is beyond hilarious.

Like saying Hilary climbed a mountain, or Armstrong (The good one) was involved in the space programme.

No it isn't. I suppose you think Oscar Pereiro is greater than Kelly or de Vlaeminck?

durhamwasp

Love Simpson, and would say him, but Wiggo's ride the other day possibly puts him number 1 for me, he has won so much. A Paris-Roubaix would seal it....

deejay

tonyf34 wrote:

Greatest ever British Road cyclist isn't a male... http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j& ... ysEArKzxzg

I'm a Simpson man first, but Beryl was outstanding and as she past me for 4 minutes on the Southend Road I had a good fairly long view of her power without any body movement.
In a RTTC 12 hour race she caught and dropped Mike McNamara who won the mens race with a record distance of 276 and half miles as she won the Ladies 12 hour with a Ladies record of 277 and a quarter miles.
He must have stayed with her a lot longer than I did.
She would have won many Worlds and Olympic Titles except for the Druggy Soviets and East Germans who looked like men. ?
I seem to remember she worked in Morley on her own "Small Holding" growing vegetables.

top_bhoy

inseine wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

sjmclean wrote:

gsk82 wrote:

I'd say froome has achieved more than wiggins on the road although, wiggins was obviously the trailblazer.

Chris Froome Palmares

Stage races
Tour de France (2013)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2013)
Tour de Romandie (2013)
Critérium International (2013)
Tour of Oman (2013)

Bradley Wiggins
Tour de France (2012)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
Paris–Nice (2012)
Tour de Romandie (2012)
One-day races and Classics
National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010)
National Road Race Championships (2011)

Between these two but depends how you define it. I'd say Wiggins but will quicky be over taken by Froome

i'd add in wiggins' 3rd in the tdf and vuelta and froomes 2nd in both, plus froome won on ventoux. if both finished now i agree it would be tight

For those ho thought it was tight, who'd have thought that a year on it would still be tight. Wiggins Worls TT title puts him right back up with Froome after his less than steller year (compared to expectations).

He was never behind Froome (in my opinion of course). There's also a little matter of Wiggins Olympic track success which in transitioning between events, displays a range of skills, diversity and ability not shown by other riders.

RichN95.

A lot of cycling left in Froome and Cavendish yet - both 29 (and born on consecutive days)

davidof

Simpson has a palmares that a modern cyclist would die for (erm so to speak). Lots of podiums on major races. A Philippe Gilbert of his day.

frenchfighter

In case it hasn't been covered yet, Cycling Weekly have a list:

CYCLING WEEKLY’S ALL-TIME RANKING

Last update September 24 2014. Ranking will be updated regularly.

1 Mark Cavendish 3,370 points
Pro: 2007-present
2 Robert Millar 2,900 points
Pro: 1980-1995
3 Bradley Wiggins 2,690 points
Pro: 2002-present
4 Tom Simpson 2,545 points
Pro: 1958-1967
5 Chris Froome 2,300 points
Pro: 2007-present
6 Chris Boardman 1,965 points
Pro: 1993-2000
7 David Millar 1,580 points *
Pro: 1997-present
8 Barry Hoban 1,455 points
Pro: 1962-1981
9 Michael Wright 800 points
Pro: 1962-1976
10 Max Sciandri 675 points **
Pro: raced as a British rider 1995-2004
11 Sean Yates 635 points
Pro: 1982-1996
12 Brian Robinson 605 points
Pro: 1952-1963
13 Malcolm Elliott 380 points
Pro: 1984-1997
14 Geraint Thomas 360 points
Pro: 2006-present
15 Ben Swift 295 points
Pro: 2007-present
16 Roger Hammond 235 points
Pro: 1998-2011
17 Jeremy Hunt 230 points
Pro: 1996-2012
18 Ian Stannard 175 points
Pro: 2007-present
19 Vin Denson 155 points
Pro: 1959-1969
20= Alan Ramsbottom 150 points
Pro: 1961-1966
20= Steve Cummings 150 points
Pro: 2005-present
22 Alex Dowsett 140 points
Pro: 2011-present
23= Graham Jones 120 points
Pro: 1979-1988
23= Paul Sherwen 120 points
Pro: 1978-1987

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/racing/b ... Py2dxAu.99

Cavendish still tops it but then being a sprinter his wins are worth far less than Millar's or Froome's. Robert is 2nd in the table but 11th in the win rankings. He didn't win a GT though so it is a difficult thing - he has won 5 stages though (proper wins also so not TTs).

Britain have never won the Vuelta and have never won the Giro.

frenchfighter

Nicole Cooke's palmares is indisputably solid (I know this is a thread about males).

deejay

davidof wrote:

Simpson has a palmares that a modern cyclist would die for (erm so to speak). Lots of podiums on major races. A Philippe Gilbert of his day.

Plus whatever they won in those days should be worth twice as much as today's riders who are mollycoddled in their training and at races on Tarmac Roads. :roll:

BelgianBeerGeek

So, it's too early to call, then?

DeVlaeminck

For me Wiggins, Cav, Simpson, Froome in that order. Wiggins as first Tour winner plus he's got more breadth to his palmares than Froome, Cav undisputed best of his era at what he does which none of the others are, Simpson as a pioneer as well as a top class one day rider who could have won more had he lived, Froome 4th simply because the other three are top Brit at what they do.

BelgianBeerGeek

frenchfighter wrote:

Nicole Cooke's palmares is indisputably solid (I know this is a thread about males).

+1 to this. Agreeeing with FF. Zut Alors!
After this week, Sir Braddurly must be up there? Regardless of what you think of him, he targeted that as "doable" and duly pocketed the win. The mark of a true champ is surely one who can pick his wins.

Although the interview with Sir Dave after was very interesting.