Pub Talk. Britain's greatest male road cyclist?
Comments
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greasedscotsman wrote:meursault wrote:You are missing a shed load of golds from the olympics. Wiggins is our best cyclist by a long way.
Only one. Track wins don't count on this thread.
But we should certainly add Olympic TT medals, as well as Worlds
So to add to Froome's palmares
Olympic TT bronze - 2012
Wiggins palmares:
Worlds TT silver - 2011
Olympic TT gold - 2012
And GT podiums are major enough to be counted IMO:
Froome
Vuelta runner - up - 2012
TdF runner-up - 2012
Wiggins
TdF 3rd (adjusted) - 2009
Vuelta 3rd - 20110 -
Well, if you like. I would have just added Wiggins' Olympic TT win. But does this make any difference? Wiggins in the best, right?0
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greasedscotsman wrote:Well, if you like. I would have just added Wiggins' Olympic TT win. But does this make any difference? Wiggins in the best, right?
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If, as is rumoured, Wiggo goes on to ride the classics seriously, and does well in them, then I would put Wiggins as number one, as a GC winner also winning one day classics is pretty special. At the moment, I would say Cavendish is the greatest, his achievements rank on a world level, in a way that the other GB cyclists don't. Having said that, in the future I'm sure Froome has the capacity to eclipse themYou live and learn. At any rate, you live0
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Saying this as a massive Cav fan...
The heroic mythology in the history of cycling generally comes from the GC contenders/epic Classics and brutal stage winners - not sprint wins.
I can't fathom how Cav's successes can be put into the same realm as Tour winning Wiggins/Froome.
He'll quite probably end his career as the greatest sprinter of all time (assuming his beating at the Tour isn't the start of a catastrophic and irreversible decline); but what are his options as a rider if he can't win sprints any more?
When he wins a race from a breakaway... when he wins solo (ok, some of his sprint wins have almost qualified for these two)... or just doing well in a race by attacking - surely a great rider attacks/responds to attacks? - then maybe he could be compared more realistically.
The first of Wiggins or Froome to win a monument/World Champs/second GT will put this topic even further beyond question - regardless of how many more sprint wins Cav has.
Rating a rider's greatness on sheer number of sprint wins is crass: Gary Lineker scored a similar number of goals to Maradona and Johan Cruyff...0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:I can't fathom how Cav's successes can be put into the same realm as Tour winning Wiggins/Froome.
Because it's consistency. Cav has been sprinting since 2009. I'm not denying winning the TdF is a phenomenal achievement, but GC has been marred in the past and questions remain. Sprinting is viewed differently - it's clean IMHO. Past issues with Kittel aside.The first of Wiggins or Froome to win a monument/World Champs/second GT will put this topic even further beyond question - regardless of how many more sprint wins Cav has.
I don't think so. Cav has won a Monument already.Rating a rider's greatness on sheer number of sprint wins is crass: Gary Lineker scored a similar number of goals to Maradona and Johan Cruyff...
No, it really isn't. Victory is victory. Cavendish has won far more than Wiggins or Froome; finishing with the lead group for 3 weeks doesn't make a great rider. The Tour for the last 2 years has been boring. Cavendish has lit it up.
And please don't bring football into it - Urgh!
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Greatest MALE road cyclist perhaps, but Britain's greatest road cyclist is Beryl Burton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_Burtonhttp://www.georgesfoundation.org
http://100hillsforgeorge.blogspot.com/
http://www.12on12in12.blogspot.co.uk/0 -
mroli wrote:Greatest MALE road cyclist perhaps, but Britain's greatest road cyclist is Beryl Burton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_Burton
Err...no.0 -
Best climber from the 80's - Robert Millar. if he'd have been around today he'd have had a team built around him.
Best one trick pony. Cav. bluddy good trick though!.
Best TTer and low incline climber. Wiggins.
Best all rounder, Froome. (jack of all trades and good enough at most of them...).
Best classics Rider, Tom Simpson.
I'd say Cavendish.0 -
No. She really isn't.mroli wrote:Greatest MALE road cyclist perhaps, but Britain's greatest road cyclist is Beryl Burton: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beryl_BurtonTwitter: @RichN950 -
C'mon, MR - your affection for Cav is clouding the issue. Sprinting is a wonderful garnish in cycling... but it's not the main event for me (except when it's the main event - his MSR and World's wins were truly brilliant, obv).
And you can't cite the doping issues in the past for one section of the peloton and dismiss it for another (I'm thinking Maertens, Petacchi, Cipolini, Zabel, Abdu, etc here) simply because for the last couple of years nearly all the headlines/attention has been about the GC guys...Victory is victory. Cavendish has won far more than Wiggins or Froome
You don't consider the quality/nature of the race as relevant? At this rate, Cav is going to eclipse the win tally of virtually every rider except maybe Merckx and Hinault... Does that make him a greater rider than Anquetil, Indurain, Lemond, etc. I don't think he can be put in the same bracket as them; if Wiggins/Froome can win some big one day races/more GTs, then I think they can.
He needs to win something that's not a bunch sprint to be considered anything other than a great sprinter.0 -
... and sorry about the f**tball reference - won't happen again.0
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To coin an Americanism, Cav is the most winningest British road cyclist.
Wiggins is currently the greatest.
Rule No.10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster0 -
Cav by a mile.
In 50 years time Cav will still be mentioned in every TdF commentary around the world.
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RichN95 wrote:One third of race days in the World Tour end in a bunch sprint. Sprinting is a major part of cycling. This doesn't stop being true just because you don't like sprints. And Cavendish is arguably the best the sport has seen. That makes him a great cyclist
And for the vast majority of those - except the "transition" or final stages of the GTs (most of which are carefully designed to create a "will they/won't they" tussle for the sprinter's teams - either to catch the breakaway and/or haul their main sprinter over the hilly bits), no pure sprinter will be anywhere at the finish.
I love the sprints, by the way.0 -
TheStone wrote:Cav by a mile.
In 50 years time Cav will still be mentioned in every TdF commentary around the world.
Is that because he'll be a TV pundit and talking about his favourite subject. Himself!0 -
OCDuPalais wrote:C'mon, MR - your affection for Cav is clouding the issue. Sprinting is a wonderful garnish in cycling... but it's not the main event for me (except when it's the main event - his MSR and World's wins were truly brilliant, obv).
LA killed GC for me. I was so naiveAnd you can't cite the doping issues in the past for one section of the peloton and dismiss it for another (I'm thinking Maertens, Petacchi, Cipolini, Zabel, Abdu, etc here) simply because for the last couple of years nearly all the headlines/attention has been about the GC guys...
Valid point. Accepted.You don't consider the quality/nature of the race as relevant? At this rate, Cav is going to eclipse the win tally of virtually every rider except maybe Merckx and Hinault... Does that make him a greater rider than Anquetil, Indurain, Lemond, etc. I don't think he can be put in the same bracket as them; if Wiggins/Froome can win some big one day races/more GTs, then I think they can.
The majority of Pros will ride their entire careers never having won a TdF stage. Cav has won so many it's obscene. Victory taken for granted even. Some people prefer GC and that's fine. Some people think Sprinting is boring and flat stages are a waste and that's fine too. Personally, I think Sprinting is the most exciting aspect of Pro Cycling. Personal choice I guess, whatever floats your boat.He needs to win something that's not a bunch sprint to be considered anything other than a great sprinter.
He's won MSR and he's won stage races on GC. He could retire today and be a legend.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Is that because he'll be a TV pundit and talking about his favourite subject. Himself!
He couldn't do any worse than the current crop of numpties.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Is that because he'll be a TV pundit and talking about his favourite subject. Himself!
He couldn't do any worse than the current crop of numpties.
He wasn't that good at the Olympics. Don't think he would be better 50 years from now.0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:The Mad Rapper wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:Is that because he'll be a TV pundit and talking about his favourite subject. Himself!
He couldn't do any worse than the current crop of numpties.
He wasn't that good at the Olympics. Don't think he would be better 50 years from now.
Agh, harsh, Greased - he got better each day0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:He wasn't that good at the Olympics. Don't think he would be better 50 years from now.
You don't think he could improve as he gets older?0 -
sjmclean wrote:gsk82 wrote:I'd say froome has achieved more than wiggins on the road although, wiggins was obviously the trailblazer.
Chris Froome Palmares
Stage races
Tour de France (2013)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2013)
Tour de Romandie (2013)
Critérium International (2013)
Tour of Oman (2013)
Bradley Wiggins
Tour de France (2012)
Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
Paris–Nice (2012)
Tour de Romandie (2012)
One-day races and Classics
National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010)
National Road Race Championships (2011)
Between these two but depends how you define it. I'd say Wiggins but will quicky be over taken by Froome
A bit late to the thread, I realise, but can someone explain that line in Wiggins' palmares to me? I don't think he's ever won a one day race.0 -
The Mad Rapper wrote:greasedscotsman wrote:He wasn't that good at the Olympics. Don't think he would be better 50 years from now.
You don't think he could improve as he gets older?
Actually, it's a good point, he might do. Would anyone have though Sean Kelly would be any good as a pundit whilst he was still racing?0 -
I think Cav could be very good at punditry given a bit of practice - have you noticed that during the interviews after the stage he can recall with real clarity what happened with him and all the other riders (even going full gas)?! It's quite a talent and he could easily turn that into commentary
anyway - if either Cav or Wiggins win Paris Roubaix, this is the guarantee of the 'greatest' title, I think Cav for the moment"I get paid to make other people suffer on my wheel, how good is that"
--Jens Voight0 -
greasedscotsman wrote:Actually, it's a good point, he might do. Would anyone have though Sean Kelly would be any good as a pundit whilst he was still racing?
Before my time. But generally, he'll be more mature, have more life experiences, both as a Pro and a person, more confidence due to greater media exposure, and he could draw on all of that. Unlike many commentators, when he's talking about racing no-one could doubt he knows his stuff.0 -
avoidingmyphd wrote:A bit late to the thread, I realise, but can someone explain that line in Wiggins' palmares to me? I don't think he's ever won a one day race.
It says what one day race he's won two lines down from the bit in bold.0 -
haha I didn't realise it was a subheading.0
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greasedscotsman wrote:YorkshireRaw wrote:If he was Belgian he'd be the biggest sports star in the country.
Err, no. He would be a long way behind Tom Boonen...
Would be close, but maybe TB would edge it with recent Flanders & PR victories, I agree. But think about how they would have had Cav winning all those other races in the past 5/6 yrs including the WCs....0 -
avoidingmyphd wrote:A bit late to the thread, I realise, but can someone explain that line in Wiggins' palmares to me? I don't think he's ever won a one day race.
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