Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

PBo

Nice one Rick.

I disagree about one thing though. Although the talk about doping spilling into every spolier thread is tedious, this is an internet forum, and I can certainly choose not to click on this particular thread if i wish. So no-one needs to "stop it". Even if they do feel the need to repeat the same arguements every page of a 50 page thread.

However, what the sanctimonious tw4ts need to do is realise that not everyone who thinks Froome's performances are clean are Sky Fanbois. or are blind.

some like froome but not sky.
some support brits but not sky.
some like him because he is understated, the opposite of wiggo.
some like the comedy value of Ms Cound
some like the Le Tour and admire the leader

but most importantly, some have a F*cking clue about science and variables, and know when to shut the f@ck up about what "is unbelieveable" based on anecdote, etc. So to act all "oh, hes doping, and you fanbois won't admit it" just makes you look like a complete c0ck. On every page of the 50 that you keep repeating yourselves.

StillGoing

I'm sure that in the many pages of this thread it has already been posted, but just to remind the doubters; Sky went through a purge at the end of last season. Many people lost their jobs due to links with doping and in some cases speculative links. That's an awful lot of people. If there was doping going on at Sky, there's a high probability that at least one of them knows where the bodies are buried. With the chance of big money to be earned by coming clean, one of them would have gone to the press. Sky doping would be big news and irresistible to the news moguls. The more people involved in a conspiracy, the harder it is to keep them all loyal, and by getting rid of any of them, you increase the risk of the secret coming out. For me, Sky and Froome are clean.

frenchfighter

"It's not fair to blame someone without evidence against him," said Gianni Bugno, president of the CPA. "We demand more respect for Chris and for all the riders. We are witnessing a daily attack against the dignity of the riders in a manner that can no longer be tolerated."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders- ... -of-doping

above_the_cows

Peeps might want to take a look at L'Equipe today.

Sky have released all Froome's data to from the last two years to Fred Grappe and he finds nothing untoward.

bazbadger

frenchfighter wrote:

"It's not fair to blame someone without evidence against him," said Gianni Bugno, president of the CPA. "We demand more respect for Chris and for all the riders. We are witnessing a daily attack against the dignity of the riders in a manner that can no longer be tolerated."

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/riders- ... -of-doping

That is a fair comment. As the financial rewards remain high, I suspect most key riders will tolerate a lot.

thegibdog

Interesting developments this morning:

the Inner Ring @inrng wrote:

Sky release Froome's climbing data and power stats to L'Equipe who have numbers reviewed by @fredgrappe who draws four conclusions:
1. Froome's power curve (W vs time) has a normal slope and his rides in the Tour are consistent with data from last 2 years
2. Sky have never measured his V02 max but Grappe says he must have a score close to the known physiological limits
3. his weight's been stable for races and
4. Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery. Data go from Vuelta 2011 to Mont Ventoux

Paulie W

thegibdog wrote:

Interesting developments this morning:

the Inner Ring @inrng wrote:

Sky release Froome's climbing data and power stats to L'Equipe who have numbers reviewed by @fredgrappe who draws four conclusions:
1. Froome's power curve (W vs time) has a normal slope and his rides in the Tour are consistent with data from last 2 years
2. Sky have never measured his V02 max but Grappe says he must have a score close to the known physiological limits
3. his weight's been stable for races and
4. Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery. Data go from Vuelta 2011 to Mont Ventoux

Anyone read the actual article yet?

milton50

"Sky have never measured his V02 max"

That's an odd one considering how Kerrison and Sky in general train so scientifically to each rider's physiology.

"Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery"

I wonder whether that relates to recovery between efforts or between race days?

disgruntledgoat

Milton50 wrote:

"Sky have never measured his V02 max"

That's an odd one considering how Kerrison and Sky in general train so scientifically to each rider's physiology.

"Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery"

I wonder whether that relates to recovery between efforts or between race days?

Isn't VO2 Max widely derided as a fairly useless indicator of anything in endurance sport these days?

milton50

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Milton50 wrote:

"Sky have never measured his V02 max"

That's an odd one considering how Kerrison and Sky in general train so scientifically to each rider's physiology.

"Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery"

I wonder whether that relates to recovery between efforts or between race days?

Isn't VO2 Max widely derided as a fairly useless indicator of anything in endurance sport these days?

Probably.I just wondered why presumably they would have done labaratory tests like lactate threshold etc. but not recorded his VO2 Max. Not a big deal I was just thinking aloud.

ddraver

Another +1 for Rick - Great post. Anyone else hear Nimrod playing in the back ground as they read it?

So...
ALM AG2R LA MONDIALE
AST ASTANA PRO TEAM
BEL BELKIN-PRO CYCLING TEAM
BMC BMC RACING TEAM
CAN CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING
EUS EUSKALTEL EUSKADI
FDJ FDJ.FR
GRS GARMIN SHARP
KAT KATUSHA
LAM LAMPRE-MERIDA
LTB LOTTO BELISOL
MOV MOVISTAR TEAM
OPQ OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP CYCLING TEAM
OGE ORICA GREENEDGE
RLT RADIOSHACK LEOPARD
ARG TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO
TST TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF
VCD VACANSOLEIL-DCM PRO CYCLING TEAM

Sky's Team leader has been vetted by an independent expert - what are you guys gonna do to show your riders are clean?

No_Ta_Doctor

Well I don't think many of us saw this coming, and not this quickly.

To save the doubters time I'll list a couple of their arguments here:

1) Only data since 2011 - the really interesting data would show us how he made his improvement
2) Not that expert, a different one.
3) They're only releasing this because they know there's nothing to be found in it. This is suspicious and shows they must be hiding something.

I've heard 1 and 3 already, I'm waiting for 2 but it's inevitable.

disgruntledgoat

ddraver wrote:

Another +1 for Rick - Great post. Anyone else hear Nimrod playing in the back ground as they read it?

So...
ALM AG2R LA MONDIALE
AST ASTANA PRO TEAM
BEL BELKIN-PRO CYCLING TEAM
BMC BMC RACING TEAM
CAN CANNONDALE PRO CYCLING
EUS EUSKALTEL EUSKADI
FDJ FDJ.FR
GRS GARMIN SHARP
KAT KATUSHA
LAM LAMPRE-MERIDA
LTB LOTTO BELISOL
MOV MOVISTAR TEAM
OPQ OMEGA PHARMA - QUICK-STEP CYCLING TEAM
OGE ORICA GREENEDGE
RLT RADIOSHACK LEOPARD
ARG TEAM ARGOS-SHIMANO
TST TEAM SAXO-TINKOFF
VCD VACANSOLEIL-DCM PRO CYCLING TEAM

Sky's Team leader has been vetted by an independent expert - what are you guys gonna do to show your riders are clean?

I think Garmin can probably have a pass eh?

r0bh

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I think Garmin can probably have a pass eh?

A team run by an ex-doper that employs many people with doping convictions? I see no reason why they should get a pass.

r0bh

Rick Chasey wrote:

Lots of well reasoned words

Spot on sir, chapeau

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Well I don't think many of us saw this coming, and not this quickly.

To save the doubters time I'll list a couple of their arguments here:

1) Only data since 2011 - the really interesting data would show us how he made his improvement
2) Not that expert, a different one.
3) They're only releasing this because they know there's nothing to be found in it. This is suspicious and shows they must be hiding something.

I've heard 1 and 3 already, I'm waiting for 2 but it's inevitable.

Oh, I've seen number 2 already. Only Vayer will do apparently (although he's actually said much the same thing). Just as David Walsh isn't good enough to follow them round, only Kimmage will do. And if blood needs to be analysed only Media Mike Ashenden will do as he's always good for a scare story.

As I'm fond of saying most people don't actually want truth, they just want support for their prejudices.

RichN95.

Milton50 wrote:

"Sky have never measured his V02 max"

That's an odd one considering how Kerrison and Sky in general train so scientifically to each rider's physiology.

To quote soemone who knows a little about such matters:

Jonathan Vaughters
‏@Vaughters
@SSbike no idea. Vo2 max is concept from the 50's. We deal with lactate metabolism and ability to process o2 over long durations.

VO2 max in amongst cycling observers is still popular because LeMond had a very high one (92.5) and he tends to wave it around like a twelve inch dick (although KA Arvesen actually had a higher one)

disgruntledgoat

r0bh wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I think Garmin can probably have a pass eh?

A team run by an ex-doper that employs many people with doping convictions? I see no reason why they should get a pass.

I meant I think Garmin have done more than enough to show they're riding clean over the last 5 years.

No_Ta_Doctor

disgruntledgoat wrote:

r0bh wrote:

disgruntledgoat wrote:

I think Garmin can probably have a pass eh?

A team run by an ex-doper that employs many people with doping convictions? I see no reason why they should get a pass.

I meant I think Garmin have done more than enough to show they're riding clean over the last 5 years.

Well they've got nothing to hide then, have they?

:-)

Turfle

I hope they release it all to me so that I can analyse it.

And very well said Rick.

Macaloon

No tA Doctor wrote:

Well I don't think many of us saw this coming, and not this quickly.

To save the doubters time I'll list a couple of their arguments here:

1) Only data since 2011 - the really interesting data would show us how he made his improvement
2) Not that expert, a different one.
3) They're only releasing this because they know there's nothing to be found in it. This is suspicious and shows they must be hiding something.

I've heard 1 and 3 already, I'm waiting for 2 but it's inevitable.

4) There's no connection between power and physiology. Everybody knows this. It's just a smokescreen to cover their use of Gas6.

alihisgreat

Paulie W wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Interesting developments this morning:

the Inner Ring @inrng wrote:

Sky release Froome's climbing data and power stats to L'Equipe who have numbers reviewed by @fredgrappe who draws four conclusions:
1. Froome's power curve (W vs time) has a normal slope and his rides in the Tour are consistent with data from last 2 years
2. Sky have never measured his V02 max but Grappe says he must have a score close to the known physiological limits
3. his weight's been stable for races and
4. Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery. Data go from Vuelta 2011 to Mont Ventoux

Anyone read the actual article yet?

I think its locked up in the pay-to-access bit of their website.

No_Ta_Doctor

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Interesting developments this morning:

the Inner Ring @inrng wrote:

Sky release Froome's climbing data and power stats to L'Equipe who have numbers reviewed by @fredgrappe who draws four conclusions:
1. Froome's power curve (W vs time) has a normal slope and his rides in the Tour are consistent with data from last 2 years
2. Sky have never measured his V02 max but Grappe says he must have a score close to the known physiological limits
3. his weight's been stable for races and
4. Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery. Data go from Vuelta 2011 to Mont Ventoux

Anyone read the actual article yet?

I think its locked up in the pay-to-access bit of their website.

I believe it's only in the print version. No doubt we'll get some translations later.

Macaloon

@fredgrappe is a brave man to put his name to an analysis of Sky data. He'll be convicted as a compromised apologist by tea time.

Paulie W

No tA Doctor wrote:

ALIHISGREAT wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Interesting developments this morning:

the Inner Ring @inrng wrote:

Sky release Froome's climbing data and power stats to L'Equipe who have numbers reviewed by @fredgrappe who draws four conclusions:
1. Froome's power curve (W vs time) has a normal slope and his rides in the Tour are consistent with data from last 2 years
2. Sky have never measured his V02 max but Grappe says he must have a score close to the known physiological limits
3. his weight's been stable for races and
4. Grappe says he must have excellent powers of recovery. Data go from Vuelta 2011 to Mont Ventoux

Anyone read the actual article yet?

I think its locked up in the pay-to-access bit of their website.

I believe it's only in the print version. No doubt we'll get some translations later.

I realise that; just wondered if any of our international posters have had a chance to read yet.

Turfle

there's this, which is better than nothing.

http://journalvelo.com/breaking/google- ... oome-data/


and down the bottom in French and English here:
http://velorooms.com/index.php?topic=13 ... #msg109806

sketchley

http://journalvelo.com/breaking/google- ... oome-data/

philbar72

that appears to have been translated by yoda.

sketchley

philbar72 wrote:

yoda translated appears to have been .

FTFY

rayjay

oooooohh I seemed to have touched a few nerves. Armstrong did not dupe me .I was never stupid enough to believe that you could ride like that clean. I have been over to the tour many times and have enjoyed it very much. Armstrong was the greatest rider of his era and his tour wins and all tour wins should stand IMO. Rick your replies are just another way of saying the same thing. I have heard it all before. Laughing at Americans, your sounding a bit xenophobic Rick. You can talk about wind conditions etc etc but there have been some extrodinary times in this tour, ax was very fast and that was after riding up the previous climb at a blistering speed. Everything you have said I could say the exact opposite and thats my reasons for suspicion. If you think that the times are not suspicious then I am fine with that .I dont seem to take it as personal as you do. But their are those among us who are suspicious. Again I say you will not stop riders looking for an advantage. They will cheat they will dope . So lets let them and lets let them do it safely rather than end up like Rico nearly dead. As for listing all the possible effects of a drug. There can be horrid side effects from just taking asprin etc etc. If you read the possible effect of any drug and thought that could happen to you, you would not take. I have not made a personal attack on any poster yet their seems to be a lot of anger in some of your replys. Im enoying the tour very much and when the next riders gets busted it will not upset one bit [they took it not me] as much as it seems to upset some of you. Its pro sport, its what athletes do. They always have. Im loving this tour. Peace and love and free speech to you all ..... Come on Contador.