Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

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  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    LutherB wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    LutherB wrote:

    We're way past jumping the shark, AtC, we're now nuking the fridge!
    Don't mention "nuking the fridge". Ever. I really need to pretend that never happened.

    I know what you mean :lol: When i heard about it i vowed never to watch it so as to not taint the greatness of the first
    What's worse is it's the best bit of the film.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • LutherB
    LutherB Posts: 544
    Oh Lord! :lol::lol::lol:
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    RichN95 wrote:
    LutherB wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    LutherB wrote:

    We're way past jumping the shark, AtC, we're now nuking the fridge!
    Don't mention "nuking the fridge". Ever. I really need to pretend that never happened.

    I know what you mean :lol: When i heard about it i vowed never to watch it so as to not taint the greatness of the first
    What's worse is it's the best bit of the film.

    I liked the anti communist monkeys
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • LutherB
    LutherB Posts: 544
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    What's worse is it's the best bit of the film.

    I liked the anti communist monkeys

    Nuked fridge & Commie Monkeys - is there anything this film doesn't have?! I'm now very tempted to watch it :)
  • Turfle
    Turfle Posts: 3,762
    I didn't make it far enough to see the nuking the fridge scene. My Indy memories remain pure.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    LutherB wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    What's worse is it's the best bit of the film.

    I liked the anti communist monkeys

    Nuked fridge & Commie Monkeys - is there anything this film doesn't have?! I'm now very tempted to watch it :)


    Anti commie monkeys. The distinction is subtle, but marked.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • LutherB
    LutherB Posts: 544
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    LutherB wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    What's worse is it's the best bit of the film.

    I liked the anti communist monkeys

    Nuked fridge & Commie Monkeys - is there anything this film doesn't have?! I'm now very tempted to watch it :)


    Anti commie monkeys. The distinction is subtle, but marked.

    Oh yes, missed the anti-bit. Not sure if that puts me off again
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    inseine wrote:
    On_What wrote:
    Vino'sGhost wrote:
    LeicesterLad wrote:
    Who cares? I'm f*cking bored of it all. I'm bored of the race to be honest. Since the big time gap I've barely been arsed to watch the last 5 minutes of the chuckle brothers each day. My only remaining hope of real entertainment is the Alp. I'm bored of doping this, doping that, power data blah blah blah. F*ck all of them and all of it. Somebody make a f*cking race of it instead of riding for your sh*tty place in the top ten.

    Only thing keeping me going right now is the bearded one and Bauke.


    Right, were did I put my cup of tea?

    +1

    Thank god someone sees sense.

    Agree about the doping, but I think it's been a really good Tour to be honest.

    +1, loving the racing. Despite the fact that most jerseys have their champions elect, riders are attacking all over the place and time is won and lost in ways that just didn't happen in times gone by. I love the evolution of modern racing.

    Seriously, how many tours have had multiple riders really duking it out for top spot this far into the race? Very few I'd suggest. I totally loved watching the '87 and '89 tours but these are exceptions, not the norm.

    If this tour offers no enjoyment for you then I really don't understand why you would watch the Tour at all.
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    RE the debate surounding how a team / rider should respond to the accusations...

    Looks like Wiggins was right last year. It was an argument he could never win so he killed the debate with obsenities.

    Froome needs a copy of the urban dictionary sending his way.
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    "Although Jeremy Whittle noticed that a Sky gopher dumped a black bin bag in a city-centre rubbish bin at a Swiss race. The official race bin was far nearer and bigger, so the question Whittle raised was, why go to the trouble of finding a municipal bin? Unfortunately, he chose not to do a Walsh and investigate further."

    I happened to be passing by and looked in that bin ,I have listed the items for you.
    1. A big empty bag saying "Sky special speed juice make sure Frommy has a extra dose"
    2. 1 DVD . Emmanuelle 2
    3. Some designs for a bike powered by time , drawn by Chris Boardman
    4.Unknown packet, label says Cake.
    5. telescope, ruler and some coloured stickers. [told ya]
    6.Paul Sherwins book of ancient gravys. [ive kept it , its really good]
    7.Lazy town keep fit with sporticus book.
  • Daz555
    Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    morstar wrote:
    RE the debate surounding how a team / rider should respond to the accusations...

    Looks like Wiggins was right last year. It was an argument he could never win so he killed the debate with obsenities.

    Froome needs a copy of the urban dictionary sending his way.
    This is very true. Wiggins handled it perfectly - but then he has the persona to handle himself whilst being rude - and still coming off alright.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • ocdupalais
    ocdupalais Posts: 4,314
    Above The Cows wrote:
    LutherB wrote:
    Daz555 wrote:
    jswba wrote:
    It's all recounted in Whittle's article in The Cycling Anthology Vol. 1.
    Why on earth did Whittle even mention that? For all he knows the guy could have been dumping his collection of donkey porn.

    How do we know it was just his donkey porn? Maybe Richie Porte smiles like he does as he knows there'll be a special black bag waiting for him in his hotel room?

    This thread has now officially jumped the shark. Donkey porn? We're talking about donkey porn. There is no way back from this.

    Don't be so quick to cast judgement.
    It's the head-line seeking, binary/reductive nature and decaying integrity of many of the journalistic standards in our glorious sport that have created a story like this when there wasn't one.

    For all we know, it could've been the older "soft", more romantic donkey porn rather than the newer stuff.
    I think we need to have access to the facts and evidence before we go about casting accusations and moral indignation.


    Has the TT started yet?
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    OCDuPalais wrote:
    Above The Cows wrote:
    LutherB wrote:
    Daz555 wrote:
    jswba wrote:
    It's all recounted in Whittle's article in The Cycling Anthology Vol. 1.
    Why on earth did Whittle even mention that? For all he knows the guy could have been dumping his collection of donkey porn.

    How do we know it was just his donkey porn? Maybe Richie Porte smiles like he does as he knows there'll be a special black bag waiting for him in his hotel room?

    This thread has now officially jumped the shark. Donkey porn? We're talking about donkey porn. There is no way back from this.

    Don't be so quick to cast judgement.
    It's the head-line seeking, binary/reductive nature and decaying integrity of many of the journalistic standards in our glorious sport that have created a story like this when there wasn't one.

    For all we know, it could've been the older "soft", more romantic donkey porn rather than the newer stuff.
    I think we need to have access to the facts and evidence before we go about casting accusations and moral indignation.


    Has the TT started yet?

    :lol::lol::lol: Yes the TT has started and its raining.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars
    left the forum March 2023
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,549
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Riis wasn't similar. He though f**k it, I've only got acouple of years left in me, I'll dope even more than I have been doing. He was a rider already past his prime. Not at all comparable to Froome or Indurain developing on an (admittedly) exponential curve but in sync. with a normal physical development timeline.
  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    I can't think of many other riders who come from places with such little cycling infrastructure.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • ugo.santalucia
    ugo.santalucia Posts: 28,310
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.

    Can you become a professional rider with a debilitating disease?
    left the forum March 2023
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.

    Can you become a professional rider with a debilitating disease?


    Apparantly so, unless you're suggesting it's a clever ruse by evil Sky.
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    ooops wrong thread :oops:
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    ALIHISGREAT wrote:
    ooops wrong thread :oops:

    Now you tell me :P
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • emadden
    emadden Posts: 2,431
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.

    Can you become a professional rider with a debilitating disease?


    Apparantly so, unless you're suggesting it's a clever ruse by evil Sky.
    It seems to have been blown out of proportion. Bilharzia is a very, very common infection in Africa and can be diagnosed and treated very easily. It is similar to other common "household" parasites like the common "worms" that kids pick up. Yes, it can drain you but as it can be picked up (i.e. diagnosed) and treated so easily, I can't understand why it went undiagnosed for so long (if in fact that was the case). The fact that he had Bilharzia before 2011 isnt enough to justify the differences in performance. Im not a physician, but know quite a bit about this from the industry I currently work in.
    **************************************************
    www.dotcycling.com
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  • above_the_cows
    above_the_cows Posts: 11,406
    emadden wrote:
    disgruntledgoat wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.

    Can you become a professional rider with a debilitating disease?


    Apparantly so, unless you're suggesting it's a clever ruse by evil Sky.
    It seems to have been blown out of proportion. Bilharzia is a very, very common infection in Africa and can be diagnosed and treated very easily. It is similar to other common "household" parasites like the common "worms" that kids pick up. Yes, it can drain you but as it can be picked up (i.e. diagnosed) and treated so easily, I can't understand why it went undiagnosed for so long (if in fact that was the case). The fact that he had Bilharzia before 2011 isnt enough to justify the differences in performance. Im not a physician, but know quite a bit about this from the industry I currently work in.

    But when combined with the move to a GC oriented team, a change in training regime, weight loss, riding as a protected rider...

    Bilharzia is debilitating for regular people, the fact that is is common doesn't alter its effects. I know, I've had friends who have had it and they have suffered from an overall lethargy and nausea. The effect it would have on elite athletes is not different and in fact such effects would surely only be magnified when we are talking about people performing at the pinnacle of what is humanly possible?
    Correlation is not causation.
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    FYI
    Translated from French from an interview done while he was training on the Madone earlier this year:

    Interviewer:
    `How do you explain that you were never well placed in the GC for stage races?`
    CF
    `The principal problem was a lack of confidence in myself. When I had good legs I did stupid things. I thought that if I tried to stay with the contenders they would drop me. I didn`t think I was good enough to measure up to them. So I attacked before, 10km from the summit, and then I exploded. It is only after I worked with Jullich that I started to learn. He told me: `listen, Chris from your SRM files I can see you are very strong. You just have to believe in it. When you feel good, wait. Wait until the last moment, wait until the last few kms, and then go full gas.` When I applied what he said at the Vuelta I thought `it is too easy, why didnt I do this before. Its crazy`.`

    Doesn`t turn you into someone who can crush opponents at will though. And neither does good data - lots of riders with good `data` aren`t good on the road.

    With regard his disease:
    `I still have the disease and I take medication every six months. Before, this parasite made gave me periods of illness which prevented me from going my hardest.`
    So it was only periods and not all the time.
    Does anyone know what the medication is and whether he has a TUE for it?
    Contador is the Greatest
  • fleshtuxedo
    fleshtuxedo Posts: 1,857
    I believe the standard treatment for bilharzia is a cocktail of EPO, growth hormone and testosterone.

    That what you're looking for?
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    edited July 2013
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Does anyone know what the medication is and whether he has a TUE for it?

    Praziquantel (AKA Biltricide). Not banned. No need for TUE. In any case he said the other day no TUEs at the tour which I think Brailsford confirmed was the case for the entire team.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Does anyone know what the medication is and whether he has a TUE for it?
    Praziquantel. It's not a banned substance.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,549
    OnYourRight wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Does anyone know what the medication is and whether he has a TUE for it?
    Biltricide. No TUE because none needed.


    It's also pretty much the opposite of performance enhancing. He has to take a week or so out from training when he takes it.
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  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    OnYourRight wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    OnYourRight wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Does anyone know what the medication is and whether he has a TUE for it?
    Biltricide. No TUE because none needed.


    It's also pretty much the opposite of performance enhancing. He has to take a week or so out from training when he takes it.
    I’m honoured you chose my reply out of the three simultaneous ones!

    Yeah, it doesn’t sound like the kind of thing that would enhance performance.

    And if getting bilharzia and then recovering from it somehow enhances performance, well, I’m sure catching the parasite could be arranged for the cost of a flight to somewhere tropical.

    By the way, I just Googled how to spell bilharzia, and came across this thread wherein Michelle – presumably Cound – says Froome was taking “Prazitel”, having previously taken praziquantel but without complete success. I have no idea if the distinction between praziquantel and Prazitel is relevant.

    If I had to hazard a guess, I'd say Prazitel is either:

    - the branded name given to praziquantel by a drug company
    - michelle misremembering the name of the drug.
  • mike6
    mike6 Posts: 1,199
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    ugo.santalucia wrote:
    The problem I have with Froome is the following:

    Never heard of him... in other words the first 4-5 years of his professional career were grey to say the least... 11th best young rider at the tour, some finished races, never a win, never anything close to winning anything, even unimportant like a Melinda Trophy or a Tour of Portugal. Then in 2011 something changes... the team Sky effect kicks in...
    Looking back, as I like to do, Indurain was a similar case, Riis was a similar case, although Riis had won something and got close to winning more before exploding at the tour... I can't think of many riders that before the age of 27 were mediocre domestiques at best and became superstars

    Yes. His Bilharzia was diagnosed and treated.

    Can you become a professional rider with a debilitating disease?

    Well, Sir Steve Redgrave, arguably the best Olympian of all time, was diabetic, but still won 5 consecutive golds in an extreme endurance event.
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