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Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

DeadCalmDeadCalm Posts: 2,995
edited July 2013 in Pro race
Well, who knows? Certainly Froome's performances are eye-catching but there is no evidence against him and until such time as there is I don't intend to get involved in the debate.

Rather, I'm posting this thread in the naive and probably vain hope that those who wish to debate the matter on this forum might use this thread to do so rather than clogging up each and every spoiler thread with the same old arguments we have all heard countless times before.

Please, fill your boots. Thank you.
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  • LeicesterLadLeicesterLad Posts: 3,908
    I'm not buying the extent to which every other GC guy was completely and utterly cooked in comparison to Froome today. I don't know what explains it. All very well saying Froome had a train, Sky power up the mountains etc but then why does every other rider who sits on the back of said train struggle so much?

    I'm not willing to say there is doping involved here, but whatever it is Sky do - it's astonishing.
  • No no don't do it or this website will also crash!!
  • After all the revelations of the last 12 months there is no way that any stage winner who is doping could possibly get away with it.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 19,546
    Is anyone really surprised that he put a minute into 2 Dutch riders? Come on seriously!

    It would appear that bertie doesnt have it this year, first the Dolphin TT and now this. Possibly he should have let Kreuzinger off the leash but then he may just have had his day without and will be battling tomorrow.

    J-Rod was never that good at those sort of climbs, Ryder has had a shocker all year, Evans and TJ being dropped was not a big surprise.

    Thus far this is exactly the same as Nibali in the Giro (unfortunately)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Millar has had a little chat with his sister.

    David Millar ‏@millarmind 16m
    Well, @TeamSky rode a perfect race, and for the record, I believe they are clean and they deserve respect and admiration for it.
    Just saying, because I don't think they deserve to have mud thrown at them when they work so hard to do it right. It doesn't seem fair.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • jamie1012jamie1012 Posts: 171
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.
  • frenchfighterfrenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    jamie1012 wrote:
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.

    Thanks, those are the words I was referring to.

    Totally classless comments from the factory boy in blue.

    Quintana has already shown in his career more heart and panache then Porte will ever have in a lifetime. And he is only just getting started.
    Contador is the Greatest
  • TMRTMR Posts: 3,986
    A very disappointing performance from AC today, I expected far more. Any reason for this? I know he crashed in the first few days, but his climbing seemed really forced today, he's usually so fluid.
  • HoopdriverHoopdriver Posts: 2,023
    He needs a good bit of steak
  • jamie1012jamie1012 Posts: 171
    jamie1012 wrote:
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.

    Thanks, those are the words I was referring to.

    Totally classless comments from the factory boy in blue.

    Quintana has already shown in his career more heart and panache then Porte will ever have in a lifetime. And he is only just getting started.
    The arrogance is actually kind of disturbing. I can hear that in a Texan accent.
  • TMRTMR Posts: 3,986
    jamie1012 wrote:
    The arrogance is actually kind of disturbing. I can hear that in a Texan accent.

    Are you as new as your post count indicates, or are you just trolling on an alt account? :P
  • jamie1012jamie1012 Posts: 171
    jamie1012 wrote:
    The arrogance is actually kind of disturbing. I can hear that in a Texan accent.

    Are you as new as your post count indicates, or are you just trolling on an alt account? :P
    I'm new, but my heart is old and cold :cry:
  • TurfleTurfle Posts: 3,762
    Really enjoying vetooo massaging the numbers on twitter to make them as suspicious as possible, even though they're not nearly as suspicious as he spent the last few weeks hoping they'd be.

    Froome, in the all important 1.30km to 7.85km part of the climb was faster than Armstrong.
  • Gazzetta67Gazzetta67 Posts: 2,006
    I reckon Contador will be more on song come the alps.. be surprised if froome can keep this tempo for the whole 3 weeks...then again after watching racing for 30 years nothing surprises me now. Banesto, Telekom, US Postal ????? and still having the Dinosaurs at the UCI in charge. being cynical is not a crime.
  • TMRTMR Posts: 3,986
    edited July 2013
    jamie1012 wrote:
    I'm new, but my heart is old and cold :cry:

    LMAO! Well, welcome! Always nice to see a new face :mrgreen:
  • TMRTMR Posts: 3,986
    Gazzetta67 wrote:
    ...being cynical is not a crime.

    You'd think. I posted something similar a few weeks ago and the SKY FanBois ganged up on me :oops:
  • DoobzDoobz Posts: 2,800
    quoted from science of sport
    Three quick thoughts on ‎#Froome's performance in the ‎#TDF today:

    1. It was fast, very fast. The 23:14 ascent of Ax-3-Domaines puts Froome in third on the all-time list for the climb, behind only Laiseka and Armstrong in 2001. The VAM of 1715 m/h converts to a power output of 6.3 W/kg (Ferrari method) and about 6.5 W/kg with other models (CPL, rst). Very fast.

    2. Before today's performance is instantly condemned as proof of nefarious pharmacology in the sport, keep in mind what I've tried to emphasize many times over the last few years, which is the context of the climb and variability around performance. For example, this climb was done in Stage 12, 13 and 14 of the 2001, 2003 and 2005 Tours, respectively. The earlier placement in week 1 as the first climb of the Tour may affect performance. Also, variability in conditions (particularly wind and heat) make it impossible to make 'guilt by performance' proclamations. Let's wait to analyze the entire Tour, the collection of climbs, and then compare to history's known dopers. The problem when you get too close in is a kind of "performance pixelation", so step back and see the whole screen. That will happen in time.

    3. Having said that, what was noteworthy today were the enormous gaps created on the final climb. That's because with the exception of Froome and perhaps Porte, the rest of the peloton performed in a manner that is typical of cycling over the last few years. Their performances were consistent with post-biological passport levels, and matched or even fell short of the prediction models. It was only Froome and Sky who exceeded them. Therefore, skepticism is normal, and failing to appreciate that will come only from extreme naivety or patriotism. History has taught us the value of some healthy cynicism, and if this level continues for three weeks, it makes for an uncomfortable Tour, of that there is no doubt.

    Either it is one exceptional individual, or...well, we know the rest, we have seen this movie too often in the sport.

    But, this is something only time will tell, as it always does.

    Ross
    cartoon.jpg
  • Paul 8vPaul 8v Posts: 5,458
    Just thought I would throw this out here, if you WERE on the dope, would you put in a stage victory like that and smash the sh** out of all your main rivals? (OK, Armstrong might but that was then, not now and he had mates in the UCI who could make bad things go away) It's like putting a big flag on the back of your bike saying "Please test me for drugs" He will be tested for the stage win and for wearing yellow.

    I doubt he'll do that sort of attack every day, if it was a rider on a non-sky team it would be described as panache...

    Bit disapointed by Portes comments, some Aussies can be real dic*s when they beat other people, seems to be a common thing (Webber and Cuddles aside!)
  • joelsimjoelsim Posts: 7,552
    I don't know whether Froome was stupid today pushing so hard right until the end.

    Quintana made the race today, best stage I've seen for ages.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,106
    Gazzetta67 wrote:
    ...being cynical is not a crime.

    You'd think. I posted something similar a few weeks ago and the SKY FanBois ganged up on me :oops:

    You're right, it's not a crime and is perfectly justified with the sports history. It's just that when you look at the most accurate pointers there is often nothing to back it up. The cynicism seems to be entirely based on the fact that a team is winning a few races they are targeting with relative ease. It is amazing that there are so many teams out there who continue to do things because 'that's how it has always been done'. Gazetta is making a big thing about Kerrison coming from swimming and getting results. I think the reason he is getting results is because he came in without the preconceptions. Maybe eventually other teams will have a eureka moment. If Sky are a bunch of dopers is it confined to their stage race team as they are s**t in one dayers! Also, plenty of riders have now left the team and a few will have felt hard done by and yet none have hinted at anything untoward.
  • andytee87andytee87 Posts: 517
    jamie1012 wrote:
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.

    Thanks, those are the words I was referring to.

    Totally classless comments from the factory boy in blue.

    Quintana has already shown in his career more heart and panache then Porte will ever have in a lifetime. And he is only just getting started.

    Either of you got a link to that? Had a look and can get a bit about Nairo attacking too far out, but not that direct quote.

    Cheers
  • Walter WhiteWalter White Posts: 238
    I saw the Porte interview and he did come across at the start like 'pfffffftttt what the f**k was he doing?', he basically said as much, he then seemed to realise how he was sounding and then eased off saying 'well you have to try' etc...
  • Cleat EastwoodCleat Eastwood Posts: 8,191
    andytee87 wrote:
    jamie1012 wrote:
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.

    Thanks, those are the words I was referring to.

    Totally classless comments from the factory boy in blue.

    Quintana has already shown in his career more heart and panache then Porte will ever have in a lifetime. And he is only just getting started.

    Either of you got a link to that? Had a look and can get a bit about Nairo attacking too far out, but not that direct quote.

    Cheers

    It was on itv4 immediately after he finished - he was still a bit out of breath - can't see what the fuss is about :roll:
    The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
    momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.
  • above_the_cowsabove_the_cows Posts: 10,862
    PorteGate seems as much an attack on those calling for panache as an attack on Quintana himself.
    Correlation is not causation.
  • cdohcdoh Posts: 5
    Perhaps I'm being naive but I just don't buy Brailsford et al/British Cycling risking all their past achievements being destroyed by association so Froome can win this. Do you seriously think he would take such a risk knowingly or unknowingly for that matter ? If you do then logically Wiggins win is just as tainted.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,774
    There is no way to beat Sky if you wait til the final climb. There probably isn't a way to beat them in the high mountains

    Tomorrow should be interesting - Different type of stage, more about tank than engine.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,106
    cdoh wrote:
    Perhaps I'm being naive but I just don't buy Brailsford et al/British Cycling risking all their past achievements being destroyed by association so Froome can win this. Do you seriously think he would take such a risk knowingly or unknowingly for that matter ? If you do then logically Wiggins win is just as tainted.

    Exactly this, Wiggins even makes the same point in his book. If you believe Sky have organised doping then it is logical that BC does too and everything that has led to the success and growth of the sport in this country has been built on cheating. That would be a lot of people with their careers, reputations and MBE/OBE/CBEs at stake.
  • ProssPross Posts: 22,106
    iainf72 wrote:
    There is no way to beat Sky if you wait til the final climb. There probably isn't a way to beat them in the high mountains

    Tomorrow should be interesting - Different type of stage, more about tank than engine.

    Yeah, I agree. I can see the tactic being to push it on the descents and hope Sky have a mishap. I hope it doesn't happen though as I wouldn't want to see anyone get hurt. Other than that the other teams are just going to have to collaborate and try to isolate Sky early on.
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 14,391
    jamie1012 wrote:
    jamie1012 wrote:
    "We we're never worried. What was he thinking? I think he reads to much in the papers about attacking."

    Richie Porte on Quintana.

    Thanks, those are the words I was referring to.

    Totally classless comments from the factory boy in blue.

    Quintana has already shown in his career more heart and panache then Porte will ever have in a lifetime. And he is only just getting started.
    The arrogance is actually kind of disturbing. I can hear that in a Texan accent.

    Let's try to keep this thread on topic, eh?
    Believe that a farther shore
    Is reachable from here.
    Believe in miracles
    And cures and healing wells
  • RundfahrtRundfahrt Posts: 551
    Pross wrote:
    cdoh wrote:
    Perhaps I'm being naive but I just don't buy Brailsford et al/British Cycling risking all their past achievements being destroyed by association so Froome can win this. Do you seriously think he would take such a risk knowingly or unknowingly for that matter ? If you do then logically Wiggins win is just as tainted.

    Exactly this, Wiggins even makes the same point in his book. If you believe Sky have organised doping then it is logical that BC does too and everything that has led to the success and growth of the sport in this country has been built on cheating. That would be a lot of people with their careers, reputations and MBE/OBE/CBEs at stake.


    Now where have I heard a defense almost exactly like that before?

    It cracks me up how you guys:

    1) Will completely dismiss any discussion of even the possibility of doping at Sky. Not merely say that you think they are clean but get vehemently angry and make it as if you KNOW they are clean.

    2) Post things that are nearly word for word what was being said on American boards during the Armstrong years.

    New team, new country, new rider(s), same old shite.
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