Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

alihisgreat

frenchfighter wrote:

Regarding the wind:
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showpost.p ... count=5667

Note that when riders are within the lines of fans and caravans they are protected a decent amount from the wind.

I would be conservative at saying that the wind factor played a part in edging up Froome`s stats.

So that guy calls the other guy's post bullsh*t.. then follows it up with the exact same bullsh*t.

its almost as bad as the power estimations.

Thanks for posting the Bicycling.com link though.

slim_boy_fat

frenchfighter wrote:

I would be conservative at saying that the wind factor played a part in edging up Froome`s stats.

Without knowing windspeed and direction at every point of the climb we have no idea if it edged up or edged down Froomes performance. That's the whole point, everyone using this BS method to tell us anything either away hasn't really got a clue as a result of all the unknows and the errors in the knowns.

frenchfighter

I`m surprised no one has Dave as their avatar. His portrait would be perfect for an avatar.

fleshtuxedo

You do it then

Omar Little

On the subject of the ascent times rather than the doping - on the Ventoux all time list it has Armstrong and Pantani with the same time in 2000, they certainly finished the stage together but i thought (i might be wrong) that Pantani caught the Armstrong/Ulrich group then attacked?

Paulie W

Omar Little wrote:

On the subject of the ascent times rather than the doping - on the Ventoux all time list it has Armstrong and Pantani with the same time in 2000, they certainly finished the stage together but i thought (i might be wrong) that Pantani caught the Armstrong/Ulrich group then attacked?

All I remember is Armstrong getting across to Pantani near the top of the climb.

okgo

Look at it on youtube, armstrong rides off the front of his group in comical fashion and rides out of the saddle to reach pantani

TKF

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I am suspicious

No you aren't. You've clearly made your mind up.

TheBigBean

By the way, the best times of "all time" list that people keep mentioning is actually the best times of the 21st century.

No_Ta_Doctor

Is this the right place to mention that Contador was looking pretty fluid after the rest day?

Paulie W

No tA Doctor wrote:

Is this the right place to mention that Contador was looking pretty fluid after the rest day?

Yes you need to go to the Saxo are dopers thread - oh wait...

jimmythecuckoo

This goes back to the tweet from Phil Gilbert this morning

He noted Contador's habit of coming out of the second rest day well.

thomthom

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

No_Ta_Doctor

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

This goes back to the tweet from Phil Gilbert this morning

He noted Contador's habit of coming out of the second rest day well.

Yes, that was very naughty. I laughed.

Paulie W

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

Me personally, I just didnt "believe" what I was seeing.

disgruntledgoat

Paulie W wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

Me personally, I just didnt "believe" what I was seeing.

He looks the sort... etc etc.

davidof

Pross wrote:

My memory is hazy of Sunday's stage but I seem to recall Froome spent most, if not all, the wooded section riding in a group with the other favourites. I believe Quintana attacked before getting above the treeline so presumably his wattage was higher than Froome's and Froome then attacked on the open slopes.

Yes he was riding on a Sky wheel from the start of the climb to just below Chalet Reynard where he attacked Contador.

I think Vayer needs to provide more details of his calculations for Froome including wind speed and direction. It is still only going to be a rough estimate. I think Strava is generally 30% optimistic on its calculations, for example.

above_the_cows

disgruntledgoat wrote:

Paulie W wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

Me personally, I just didnt "believe" what I was seeing.

He looks the sort... etc etc.

Oh this is tempting...

Does anyone have a graph?

No_Ta_Doctor

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

No, I calculated his power output at eleventy-three whats per kilometer. I didn't have an accurate weight for him, so I made one up then stuck on 250gr for a nice steak.

I'm being mischievous, nothing more. A Cat 2 climb where he puts in a couple of digs but cant get away is about as relevant an indicator of any form as gutting a chicken and reading the entrails. Was it his first uphill attack of the tour though?

thomthom

I actually think it was.

Paulie W

No tA Doctor wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

No, I calculated his power output at eleventy-three whats per kilometer. I didn't have an accurate weight for him, so I made one up then stuck on 250gr for a nice steak.

I'm being mischievous, nothing more. A Cat 2 climb where he puts in a couple of digs but cant get away is about as relevant an indicator of any form as gutting a chicken and reading the entrails. Was it his first uphill attack of the tour though?

Now which chicken are you talking about?

above_the_cows

Paulie W wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

ThomThom wrote:

Are we basing this on the 5 meter gaps to Porte or...?

No, I calculated his power output at eleventy-three whats per kilometer. I didn't have an accurate weight for him, so I made one up then stuck on 250gr for a nice steak.

I'm being mischievous, nothing more. A Cat 2 climb where he puts in a couple of digs but cant get away is about as relevant an indicator of any form as gutting a chicken and reading the entrails. Was it his first uphill attack of the tour though?

Now which chicken are you talking about?

Rasmussen.

Macaloon

I certainly go rolling around on the ground after too much cake...

Turfle

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 8m
Dave Brailsford talking power curves on French TV. Also calls for all TUEs (medical prescriptions) to be published prior to Tour de France


That is interesting. Brailsford appears to be taking a slightly different tack in the last few days. Froome also says he has no TUEs.

above_the_cows

I go rolling around on the ground after too much booze.* But everyone has their poison.


*I have never rolled around on the ground from drink. This is not true. But it should be. I am quite boring.

davidof

Turfle wrote:

the Inner Ring ‏@inrng 8m
Dave Brailsford talking power curves on French TV. Also calls for all TUEs (medical prescriptions) to be published prior to Tour de France


That is interesting. Brailsford appears to be taking a slightly different tack in the last few days. Froome also says he has no TUEs.

Feel free to correct anything I got wrong, I typed this in listening to the interview

We are not the dominant team. Last year we understood how to win the Tour de France. This year we took the time to study the course, to see where we could take time, after being defensive in 2012 to attack more. Other teams have also taken more opportunities to attack us.

This is the “after” Armstrong tour. It is normal that there are questions. Last winter everyone began to see just how deep the problem with doping in cycling is. The fans feel cheated, they can’t believe anyone anymore, it is normal they ask questions. I’m 100% convinced things are better than in the Armstrong era. We are transitioning.

In the past it was normal to dope in professional cycling. Despite leaving Wales to cycle in France I was never in that environment. I started working with the British Olympic programme then 4 years ago realized we had the talent to set up a professional cycle team.

The break Froome made on the Ventoux, we trained for that a couple of time a week during the Winter. The question is: how can we allay suspicions? We need to look at this afresh, with new eyes. We need to give Power, VO2Max, weight, body fat, 1,5,20 minute, 1hr, 3hr power. For me that is a true “passport”. Chris hasn’t made enormous progress in power but he is much more effective at using what he has.

This morning I phoned UK anti-doping and asked them if they would be able to accept our data and analyse them. However at Sky we’ve put in place a very good training program, we need to have confidentially for our data. I also think teams need to publish all prescriptions riders are taken before a Grand Tour.

-- edited for correction on UK Anti Doping conversation (see below)

above_the_cows

"This morning I phoned UK anti-doping and asked them to take all our data and analyse them."

Expect some job opportunities opening up at UK anti-doping soon then, or UK anti-doping to say they don't have the capacity.

Turfle

Thanks, david.

Privacy reasons aside, I can't see many arguments against releasing what medications riders are using.

RichN95.

Turfle wrote:

Thanks, david.

Privacy reasons aside, I can't see many arguments against releasing what medications riders are using.

Privacy is a massive reason though. Goes against all medical ethics and probably the human rights act. However, there could be a mechanism whereby they can be volunatarily revealed.

A legit way might be to reveal team wide information rather than individual - on the proviso that no team will reveal specifically who takes what.

Turfle

RichN95 wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Thanks, david.

Privacy reasons aside, I can't see many arguments against releasing what medications riders are using.

Privacy is a massive reason though. Goes against all medical ethics and probably the human rights act. However, there could be a mechanism whereby they can be volunatarily revealed.

Yeah, I didn't mean to imply privacy wasn't a valid reason.

TUEs, medications, painkillers etc is certainly an interesting area to explore.