Sky are dopers - Oh no they're not

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Comments

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,253
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    All the stuff about Armstrong has come out years after he finished racing .At the time the UCI accepted he took a cream for a sore bum . Its only now we can look back and realise he was fibbing .
    LA Confidentiel was published in 2004. Huge chunks of the USADA report were already in that book.
    Which report was that? I don't recall one from before 2004. Thanks.
    The USADA report from last year. Lots of it was already in Walsh & Ballester's book from 2004. So plenty had come out while he was still riding.

    And also, Sky didn't keep Leinders secret, you can find references to him on their website from early 2011: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 21,00.html
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:
    the charge of hypocrisy stands on that issue but the "I saw him dope" story has yet to emerge
    Much the same as Indurain after 20 years with the "I think so" and the Bus spotters.

    A different time, a different place.
    Maybe, but still waiting for something other than bonehead hypocrisy to emerge. ??
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • binkybike
    binkybike Posts: 104
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    So. Have i got this right?

    Basically, if you are not convinced that Sky are doping you are a one-eyed fanboy who is completely out of touch with reality? yes?

    Also, because Armstrong fans also didn't believe that Lance was doping and Sky "fans" don't believe Sky are doping... therefore Sky are doping? yes? Because the Lance Fans where wrong, the Sky ones must be too. (even if you are a not a Sky fan, ALTHOUGH you are because you don't believe Sky are doping, don't forget)

    Yes?

    I might be confused though.

    Either confused or shoot shoveling shoot like other sky fans.

    Excellent. An inaccurate personal insult from someone on the internet. This has cheered me up no end.

    There was no personal insult, simply a comment on your question about your very obvious post. If you want to personal attacks look at sky fans responses.

    Odd. I assumed being called a "shoot" was a personal insult? But clearly I was wrong, disappointing.
  • disgruntledgoat
    disgruntledgoat Posts: 8,957
    Rundfahrt wrote:

    Can you prove it? I have written statements backing me up you have something you are claiming as fact. Maybe now you'll see the difference between posting an opinion (like mine about sky recovering from getting blown up) and posting as fact. It sucks when someone uses your own tactic against you doesn't it! :lol:

    Oh, I love the very postal fan use of discrediting the writer in order to maintain you blind view!

    I'll be outraged about Lim when I see something come out like happened with Leinders. I am suspicious because he worked with Landis, but it's tempered due to his work with Garmin and Vaughters.

    You got me, I can't prove it. I think you're making this way more oppositional than it needs to be though. I don;t have a tactic. I'm having a discussion. It's not about winning or losing is it?

    As it happens I can't even prove Lieuw knows nothing about football or tennis, as I have no specialist knowledge of either. I just assume that given the pish he turns out about sports I do know about, those would follow suit. I quite like his stuff about last night's TV sometimes though. I'm really not trying a sneaky "shoot the messenger" thing here. And I already said Sky's use of the good doctor was hypocritical.

    By the way, Lim stopped working with Garmin when Armstrong gave him a Jan Koller (Large cheque) to come and work at Radioshack. So his pro coaching career goes Landis, Phonak, Jelly Belly (I think), Garmin, Radioshack. Does that mean Garmin are doping now?
    "In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"

    @gietvangent
  • MrTapir
    MrTapir Posts: 1,206
    ="binkybike
    Excellent, I am glad I sorted that out, now I'm going to try and fathom why I like Laurens tem Dam so much, maybe i am just a sucker for a good name

    Is it because he is the most prominent bearded member of the peloton?
  • Rundfahrt
    Rundfahrt Posts: 551
    RichN95 wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    RichN95 wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    All the stuff about Armstrong has come out years after he finished racing .At the time the UCI accepted he took a cream for a sore bum . Its only now we can look back and realise he was fibbing .
    LA Confidentiel was published in 2004. Huge chunks of the USADA report were already in that book.
    Which report was that? I don't recall one from before 2004. Thanks.
    The USADA report from last year. Lots of it was already in Walsh & Ballester's book from 2004. So plenty had come out while he was still riding.

    And also, Sky didn't keep Leinders secret, you can find references to him on their website from early 2011: http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290, ... 21,00.html

    Gotcha. The way you wrote it I thought you meant an investigation before 2004.
  • emadden
    emadden Posts: 2,431
    Can't find Leinders on any incarnation of the Team Sky website (but I could be missing one or two updates where he may have appeared)... you can go through the archives here: www.archive.org
    **************************************************
    www.dotcycling.com
    ***************************************************
  • binkybike
    binkybike Posts: 104
    MrTapir wrote:
    ="binkybike
    Excellent, I am glad I sorted that out, now I'm going to try and fathom why I like Laurens tem Dam so much, maybe i am just a sucker for a good name

    Is it because he is the most prominent bearded member of the peloton?

    Could be, could be... I am slightly hirsute in that area myself. maybe I see some of myself in him.

    I do think he is a dude.
  • Rundfahrt
    Rundfahrt Posts: 551
    binkybike wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    So. Have i got this right?

    Basically, if you are not convinced that Sky are doping you are a one-eyed fanboy who is completely out of touch with reality? yes?

    Also, because Armstrong fans also didn't believe that Lance was doping and Sky "fans" don't believe Sky are doping... therefore Sky are doping? yes? Because the Lance Fans where wrong, the Sky ones must be too. (even if you are a not a Sky fan, ALTHOUGH you are because you don't believe Sky are doping, don't forget)

    Yes?

    I might be confused though.

    Either confused or shoot shoveling shoot like other sky fans.

    Excellent. An inaccurate personal insult from someone on the internet. This has cheered me up no end.

    There was no personal insult, simply a comment on your question about your very obvious post. If you want to personal attacks look at sky fans responses.

    Odd. I assumed being called a "shoot" was a personal insult? But clearly I was wrong, disappointing.

    I never called you a shit (shoot is how the filter changes another word for feces), the extra shit was merely a mistake in revising my original comment. If you look through this thread you will see very few insults and personal attacks by me (one i believe) as opposed to the constant barrage leveled at me.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    deejay wrote:
    mididoctors wrote:


    the charge of hypocrisy stands on that issue but the "I saw him dope" story has yet to emerge
    Much the same as Indurain after 20 years with the "I think so" and the Bus spotters.

    I think thats a fair point TBH.. the difference is the atmosphere now surrounding the issue.

    And I admit I have the big mig down as a user . the ball game changed in 98 viz a viz how ths was going to play out.
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • Rundfahrt
    Rundfahrt Posts: 551
    I know how much fun this is but I have to leave for a while. Time to pack up my classroom and then get in a ride. Enjoy the rest of what's left of the daytime.
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    MESSAGE TO RUNDFART

    If you are a "clean" poster reveal your posting stats! How many of your posts are doping related?

    UCI guidlines only permit a pro race doping post crit level of 20% of your total posts.There are murmurings in the forum peleton that your crit level is in excess of 25% are you the new Bjarne Riis? are you Mr 25%?

    You can break it down in graph form if you wish. We do love a graph.
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!
    Contador is the Greatest
  • binkybike
    binkybike Posts: 104
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    Rundfahrt wrote:
    binkybike wrote:
    So. Have i got this right?

    Basically, if you are not convinced that Sky are doping you are a one-eyed fanboy who is completely out of touch with reality? yes?

    Also, because Armstrong fans also didn't believe that Lance was doping and Sky "fans" don't believe Sky are doping... therefore Sky are doping? yes? Because the Lance Fans where wrong, the Sky ones must be too. (even if you are a not a Sky fan, ALTHOUGH you are because you don't believe Sky are doping, don't forget)

    Yes?

    I might be confused though.

    Either confused or shoot shoveling shoot like other sky fans.

    Excellent. An inaccurate personal insult from someone on the internet. This has cheered me up no end.

    There was no personal insult, simply a comment on your question about your very obvious post. If you want to personal attacks look at sky fans responses.

    Odd. I assumed being called a "shoot" was a personal insult? But clearly I was wrong, disappointing.

    I never called you a shoot (shoot is how the filter changes another word for feces), the extra shoot was merely a mistake in revising my original comment. If you look through this thread you will see very few insults and personal attacks by me (one i believe) as opposed to the constant barrage leveled at me.

    I know what "shoot" means. I also know what "back pedalling" means.

    I wouldn't sweat it though, I am only here because the server is running my reports very slowly... it's just the internet innit.
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    edited July 2013
    LeicesterLad wrote:
    Contador says Froome is no doper and that he believes his victories have come from an exceptional amount of hard work. (couldn't find a link but it's in the telegraph).

    Frenchie won't be happy.

    VeloNews had it too, although parsing the layers of this is like a very complex hand of poker.

    "Contador says Froome is riding clean, enjoying ‘fruits of the work he puts in’"
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/contador-says-froome-is-riding-clean-enjoying-fruits-of-the-work-he-puts-in_295260
    Frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!

    Well played, Sir :D
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • slim_boy_fat
    slim_boy_fat Posts: 1,810
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!
    lol, this really is the tour from hell for you FF. Fair play though, great response :)
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,651
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!

    I'm glad I unblocked you today :lol:

    I think though we probably agree that we'd rather not have Contador saying that kind of thing, though for different reasons.
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • rayjay
    rayjay Posts: 1,384
    Pross wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Very nice replys . You cannot say Gert Leinders is not evidence . He dopes riders for a living . Sky forgot to check his CV? come on. You look at previous results of Wiggo and Froome before Leinders joined Sky and they were no where at that levels they now achieve. They are not new riders. Ring a bell. Some very very fast times beating times set by doped riders . I think that is enough to ask questions . Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence

    Froome had only ridden three Grand Tour prior to joining Sky and was DQd in one of them. He managed 34th in the Giro riding for what was a pretty weak team. Now I'm no cycling historian but I'm pretty sure I recall Wiggins coming 4th (effectively 3rd post LA) in the 2009 Tour whilst at Garmin who even chief cynic Kimmage appears to accept is a clean team and that was after going into the race as nothing more than a support rider. Hardly a surprise that with a whole team and big budget dedicated to a single goal that he was subsequently able to win the Tour in what many of his detractors insisted pointing out was a Tour route suited to him and one of the weakest fields in recent years.
    Seriously are you not laughing as you wrote Froome managed 34th in the tour. He also came outside the top 50 in another tour [ giro or Vulta can't remember] Then joins Sky and podiums and would have won if he did not have to follow team orders and let Wiggo suck his wheels. Thats a massive jump in performance.in less than 1 season..Your funny
    As for Wiggo again he never won anything of sigficance on the road since 2001 . He got beat in ITT everytime bar one which was against no big name ITT riders. He never one one ITT in any grand tour or race of significance . over 10 years of zeros The year he came fourth even he admitted was a fluke and to be honest everyone was watching AC V LA. Garmin may now have a reputation for being clean but its funny how that happened only after Armstrong got busted and TD .CVV. DZ and JV all made a deal so they could keep going . Garmin was full of dopers at the time Wiggo was riding and still are but now they claim they really are clean just like they did when the team started and some of their biggest riders all got busted for doping . What a joke. Then WIggo joins sky and he his beating FC in ITT and wins his last tour ITT by over 3 minutes . He his not a new rider and you don't all of a sudden just start winning after over 10 years of zeros. Wiggo his one of the greatest track riders ever and that jump in performance on the road has to be questioned.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    Macaloon wrote:
    LeicesterLad wrote:
    Contador says Froome is no doper and that he believes his victories have come from an exceptional amount of hard work. (couldn't find a link but it's in the telegraph).

    Frenchie won't be happy.

    VeloNews had it too, although parsing the layers of this is like a very complex hand of poker.

    "Contador says Froome is riding clean, enjoying ‘fruits of the work he puts in’"
    http://velonews.competitor.com/2013/07/news/contador-says-froome-is-riding-clean-enjoying-fruits-of-the-work-he-puts-in_295260

    In all honesty I am not sure how much that helps froome's cause.....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    rayjay wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Very nice replys . You cannot say Gert Leinders is not evidence . He dopes riders for a living . Sky forgot to check his CV? come on. You look at previous results of Wiggo and Froome before Leinders joined Sky and they were no where at that levels they now achieve. They are not new riders. Ring a bell. Some very very fast times beating times set by doped riders . I think that is enough to ask questions . Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence

    Froome had only ridden three Grand Tour prior to joining Sky and was DQd in one of them. He managed 34th in the Giro riding for what was a pretty weak team. Now I'm no cycling historian but I'm pretty sure I recall Wiggins coming 4th (effectively 3rd post LA) in the 2009 Tour whilst at Garmin who even chief cynic Kimmage appears to accept is a clean team and that was after going into the race as nothing more than a support rider. Hardly a surprise that with a whole team and big budget dedicated to a single goal that he was subsequently able to win the Tour in what many of his detractors insisted pointing out was a Tour route suited to him and one of the weakest fields in recent years.
    Seriously are you not laughing as you wrote Froome managed 34th in the tour. He also came outside the top 50 in another tour [ giro or Vulta can't remember] Then joins Sky and podiums and would have won if he did not have to follow team orders and let Wiggo suck his wheels. Thats a massive jump in performance.in less than 1 season..Your funny
    As for Wiggo again he never won anything of sigficance on the road since 2001 . He got beat in ITT everytime bar one which was against no big name ITT riders. He never one one ITT in any grand tour or race of significance . over 10 years of zeros The year he came fourth even he admitted was a fluke and to be honest everyone was watching AC V LA. Garmin may now have a reputation for being clean but its funny how that happened only after Armstrong got busted and TD .CVV. DZ and JV all made a deal so they could keep going . Garmin was full of dopers at the time Wiggo was riding and still are but now they claim they really are clean just like they did when the team started and some of their biggest riders all got busted for doping . What a joke. Then WIggo joins sky and he his beating FC in ITT and wins his last tour ITT by over 3 minutes . He his not a new rider and you don't all of a sudden just start winning after over 10 years of zeros. Wiggo his one of the greatest track riders ever and that jump in performance on the road has to be questioned.

    maybe the fact everyone else suddenly became a bit 5hit compared to how they used to ride has something to do with this miracle?

    just saying
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,908
    you got to love the doping thread
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • frenchfighter
    frenchfighter Posts: 30,642
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!

    I'm glad I unblocked you today :lol:

    I think though we probably agree that we'd rather not have Contador saying that kind of thing, though for different reasons.

    I know what you are thinking and I assure you it crossed my mind too. Don`t write it out though ; )
    Contador is the Greatest
  • Macaloon
    Macaloon Posts: 5,545
    mididoctors wrote:
    In all honesty I am not sure how much that helps froome's cause.....

    The whole shooting match is like a scene from Catch-22.
    ...a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    I'm so surprised that I am having to remind everyone again, this is the final chance, this is not Kindergarten, would you really talk to someone in real life in the manner of which some of you have referred to the other, I seriously cannot believe it.

    When you post a reply, try and reflect if you would like someone to speak to you in the same manner?

    I can't believe the "I've blocked and now unblocked you going on in here" I've never had to block anyone and have no intent on doing so.

    Please no more or the thread gets locked!
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    Well Contador has gone up one notch in my book, that puts him at notch 1

    Love the Rundy still thinks that people asking him to back up what he's posting is a personal attack - good god man, never ever become a scientist!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,462
    rayjay wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    rayjay wrote:
    Very nice replys . You cannot say Gert Leinders is not evidence . He dopes riders for a living . Sky forgot to check his CV? come on. You look at previous results of Wiggo and Froome before Leinders joined Sky and they were no where at that levels they now achieve. They are not new riders. Ring a bell. Some very very fast times beating times set by doped riders . I think that is enough to ask questions . Don't forget Until Armstrong admitted doping there was no actual proof that he doped . Fact. He got caught by the huge number of testomonies against Him .Not physical evidence

    Froome had only ridden three Grand Tour prior to joining Sky and was DQd in one of them. He managed 34th in the Giro riding for what was a pretty weak team. Now I'm no cycling historian but I'm pretty sure I recall Wiggins coming 4th (effectively 3rd post LA) in the 2009 Tour whilst at Garmin who even chief cynic Kimmage appears to accept is a clean team and that was after going into the race as nothing more than a support rider. Hardly a surprise that with a whole team and big budget dedicated to a single goal that he was subsequently able to win the Tour in what many of his detractors insisted pointing out was a Tour route suited to him and one of the weakest fields in recent years.
    Seriously are you not laughing as you wrote Froome managed 34th in the tour. He also came outside the top 50 in another tour [ giro or Vulta can't remember] Then joins Sky and podiums and would have won if he did not have to follow team orders and let Wiggo suck his wheels. Thats a massive jump in performance.in less than 1 season..Your funny
    As for Wiggo again he never won anything of sigficance on the road since 2001 . He got beat in ITT everytime bar one which was against no big name ITT riders. He never one one ITT in any grand tour or race of significance . over 10 years of zeros The year he came fourth even he admitted was a fluke and to be honest everyone was watching AC V LA. Garmin may now have a reputation for being clean but its funny how that happened only after Armstrong got busted and TD .CVV. DZ and JV all made a deal so they could keep going . Garmin was full of dopers at the time Wiggo was riding and still are but now they claim they really are clean just like they did when the team started and some of their biggest riders all got busted for doping . What a joke. Then WIggo joins sky and he his beating FC in ITT and wins his last tour ITT by over 3 minutes . He his not a new rider and you don't all of a sudden just start winning after over 10 years of zeros. Wiggo his one of the greatest track riders ever and that jump in performance on the road has to be questioned.

    I didn't say he came 34th in the Tour, it's hard to have a serious debate with someone who's intellect prevents them from reading simple facts. Also, it wasn't a jump in one year. He was 84th in his first Tour (aged 23 and riding on a team who's main role was to support a sprinter), he then finished 34th in a Giro in 2009 which is a respectable performance for a young rider in their second GT as a domestique for a sprinter. Those two years were enough for British Cycling to spot the potential and get him to change passport.

    If you can't see the reason Wiggins may have suddenly improved on the road after the Beijing Olympics in 2008 then there really is no point in further debate.
  • deejay
    deejay Posts: 3,138
    Has this mornings Press Conference with Froome and Brailsford been posted here yet.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ju ... -de-france

    Well it might help your problems
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • alihisgreat
    alihisgreat Posts: 3,872
    ddraver wrote:
    Well Contador has gone up one notch in my book, that puts him at notch 1

    Love the Rundy still thinks that people asking him to back up what he's posting is a personal attack - good god man, never ever become a scientist!

    Nah, as above we all know why he's saying it :wink::lol:

    just kidding!
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    frenchfighter wrote:
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    frenchfighter wrote:
    Contador seriously, what are you saying man!

    I'm glad I unblocked you today :lol:

    I think though we probably agree that we'd rather not have Contador saying that kind of thing, though for different reasons.

    I know what you are thinking and I assure you it crossed my mind too. Don`t write it out though ; )

    Nice to see you guys getting on. Reminds me a bit of this...

    CAPULET
    O brother Montague, give me thy hand:
    This is my daughter's jointure, for no more
    Can I demand.

    MONTAGUE
    But I can give thee more:
    For I will raise her statue in pure gold;
    That while Verona by that name is known,
    There shall no figure at such rate be set
    As that of true and faithful Juliet.

    CAPULET
    As rich shall Romeo's by his lady's lie;
    Poor sacrifices of our enmity!
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • powerbookboy
    powerbookboy Posts: 241
    trek_dan wrote:
    Find it more suspicious how bad Contador, Valverde, Schleck et al have been since they stopped cheating. Sky are just better at training clean because they've been doing it longer than everyone else.

    With the exception of Schleck: Eh? What races have you been watching . Contador is slightly subpar, but still a GC rider, Valverde is about the same as before. They're also a number of years older. People seem to forget that other positions on the podium, or even the top 10, still represent a bloody good bike rider.
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