TDF 2013 - Stage 4 TTT *Spoilers*

tailwindhome

Just kicking this off early to ask a question

Have a father and son ever held the yellow jersey?

tailwindhome

Nice bit of analysis by Dead Calm from the stage 3 thread

DeadCalm wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

With GC being the way it is, it would appear likely that in addition to the glory of a stage win, the team winning tomorrow's stage will also take the yellow jersey. The following are the highest placed riders for each team and therefore the riders who are most likely (but not guaranteed) to be in yellow tomorrow evening should their team win the stage.

1 Jan Bakelants (Bel) RadioShack Leopard 12:21:27
2 Julien Simon (Fra) Sojasun 0:00:01
3 Simon Gerrans (Aus) Orica-GreenEdge
4 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Omega Pharma-Quick Step
5 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling
7 David Millar (GBr) Garmin-Sharp
8 Sergey Lagutin (Uzb) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
9 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team
10 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
11 Nicolas Roche (Irl) Team Saxo-Tinkoff
12 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Lotto Belisol
16 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Merida
17 Eduard Vorganov (Rus) Katusha
19 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team
29 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale Pro Cycling
36 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Belkin Pro Cycling Team
41 Arnold Jeannesson (Fra) FDJ
43 Davide Malacarne (Ita) Team Europcar
70 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits
109 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Argos-Shimano 0:13:01


I think we can probably discount Tom Dumoulin who, despite being the best placed Argos rider, is over 13 minutes down. All the rest are within one second. I'd love Bardet to get it but frankly AG2R will be hoping to minimise losses rather than riding for the win. If it weren't for Tony Martin's fall, I'd say that Kwiatkowski would be odds on favourite. I know Garmin fancy their chances but have a feeling we might be in for a surprise. Cadel in yellow tomorrow evening maybe?

So whichever team wins the TTT, assuming they beat RSL by 1s will put their man listed above in Yellow.

Millar must fancy this, but it would be great to see Roche in yellow.

FF I'm putting you on avatar stand by.....

Pretty much. The only exception I can think of would be if one of the above were to be dropped in the TTT and their team went on to win the stage.

Finishing order across the line is irrelevant then?

I'm thinking there must be teams with more than 1 rider at 1s......

DeadCalm

TailWindHome wrote:

Nice bit of analysis by Dead Calm from the stage 2 thread

DeadCalm wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

DeadCalm wrote:

With GC being the way it is, it would appear likely that in addition to the glory of a stage win, the team winning tomorrow's stage will also take the yellow jersey. The following are the highest placed riders for each team and therefore the riders who are most likely (but not guaranteed) to be in yellow tomorrow evening should their team win the stage.

1 Jan Bakelants (Bel) RadioShack Leopard 12:21:27
2 Julien Simon (Fra) Sojasun 0:00:01
3 Simon Gerrans (Aus) Orica-GreenEdge
4 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Omega Pharma-Quick Step
5 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling
7 David Millar (GBr) Garmin-Sharp
8 Sergey Lagutin (Uzb) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
9 Cadel Evans (Aus) BMC Racing Team
10 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
11 Nicolas Roche (Irl) Team Saxo-Tinkoff
12 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Lotto Belisol
16 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Lampre-Merida
17 Eduard Vorganov (Rus) Katusha
19 Alejandro Valverde Belmonte (Spa) Movistar Team
29 Peter Sagan (Svk) Cannondale Pro Cycling
36 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Belkin Pro Cycling Team
41 Arnold Jeannesson (Fra) FDJ
43 Davide Malacarne (Ita) Team Europcar
70 Christophe Le Mevel (Fra) Cofidis, Solutions Credits
109 Tom Dumoulin (Ned) Team Argos-Shimano 0:13:01


I think we can probably discount Tom Dumoulin who, despite being the best placed Argos rider, is over 13 minutes down. All the rest are within one second. I'd love Bardet to get it but frankly AG2R will be hoping to minimise losses rather than riding for the win. If it weren't for Tony Martin's fall, I'd say that Kwiatkowski would be odds on favourite. I know Garmin fancy their chances but have a feeling we might be in for a surprise. Cadel in yellow tomorrow evening maybe?

So whichever team wins the TTT, assuming they beat RSL by 1s will put their man listed above in Yellow.

Millar must fancy this, but it would be great to see Roche in yellow.

FF I'm putting you on avatar stand by.....

Pretty much. The only exception I can think of would be if one of the above were to be dropped in the TTT and their team went on to win the stage.

Finishing order across the line is irrelevant then?

I'm thinking there must be teams with more than 1 rider at 1s......

Plenty. I'm assuming the same rules that meant Puccio took pink in the Giro will apply here, ie it is based on their existing GC position. I don't know this for an absolute fact though.

Edit: The rules seem to back me up:

a) Classement général individuel au temps
Le classement général individuel au temps
s’établit par l’addition des temps réalisés par
chaque coureur dans les 21 étapes, compte
tenu des pénalités en temps.
En cas d’égalité de temps au classement
général, les centièmes de seconde enregistrés
par les chronométreurs lors des épreuves
contre la montre «individuel» sont réincorporés
dans le temps total pour départager les
coureurs et décider de l’attribution du Maillot
Jaune. En cas de nouvelle égalité, il est fait
appel à l’addition des places obtenues à chaque
étape et, en dernier ressort, à la place obtenue
dans la dernière étape disputée

ddraver

Man a TTT?

Pfft, i'm actually going to have to do some work tomorrow afternoon....

FJS

TailWindHome wrote:

Just kicking this off early to ask a question

Have a father and son ever held the yellow jersey?

Dont know any.
Stage wins: Henk and Jelle Nijdam;
any jersey: Jean-Paul (green and polka) and Danny (white) van Poppel

Paul 8v

ddraver wrote:

Man a TTT?

Pfft, i'm actually going to have to do some work tomorrow afternoon....

I love TTTs, am I the only one?

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

Just kicking this off early to ask a question

Have a father and son ever held the yellow jersey?

No. I'm pretty sure not. Father-son pros are actually fairly rare compared to some sports (like football & cricket)

I assume you are looking at Nico Roche on the list.

I'm not sure if Julien Simon is part of the famous Simon clan- I don't think he is. (Not that Sojusan has any chance of winning it)

RichN95.

Paul 8v wrote:

ddraver wrote:

Man a TTT?

Pfft, i'm actually going to have to do some work tomorrow afternoon....

I love TTTs, am I the only one?

Sponsors love them - a primary reason they still exist.

Paul 8v

I just like the way they have to all work in perfect harmony to win, a well drilled team is great to watch in my opinion. Also they add a bit of variety.

dave milne

got money each way on Orica greenedge. Odds weren't attractive on any of the other genuine contenders

frenchfighter

Thanks for naming the thread properly.

I wouldn`t mind Roche in the jersey even though he doesn`t deserve it.

Kwia in the jersey would be nice as he is a fighter and the young ones tend to ride above themselves when they have it leading to some great moments. So ditto Bardet, especially as he is French and also exciting - he will ride himself inside out like Voeckler did.

Millar I suppose would be ok but he has been around.
2000:


Cunego taking the jersey might be a nice idea as it could give him a spark to perform on a level he reached some years ago.

In reality though, there are only a small handful of riders who will be in with a shout. I guess the unknown is how well Tony can motor given his bad injuries - it may be the difference between them and Garmin.

RideOnTime

TailWindHome wrote:

Just kicking this off early to ask a question

Have a father and son ever held the yellow jersey?

Sorry to be retentive - could we follow a naming convention - SPOILERS - Le Tour - Etape 4 etc?

Then when you make a comment on a stage you can get the threads to line up in the index. It's very aesthetically pleasing.

I'm just saying...

RideOnTime

Also it would be nice to have the start / finish in the title Nice - Nice.

See what I've done there?

Vino'sGhost

RideOnTime wrote:

Also it would be nice to have the start / finish in the title Nice - Nice.

See what I've done there?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

above_the_cows

RideOnTime are you a fellow traveller on the weird and wonderful omnibus of OCD?

That was beautiful. Now excuse me while I re-arrange these pens and post-its into perfect right angles.

Turfle

Looking forward to this.

Hoping OPQS and Sky aren't too handicapped, but mostly hoping G makes it safely through the day.

Can't see any of Sky, Saxo, Movistar losing too much to each other.

TheStone

What's the longest anyone's gone between yellow jerseys?
Can't see beyond Garmin today. Had a decent punt.

RideOnTime

TheStone wrote:

What's the longest anyone's gone between yellow jerseys?
Can't see beyond Garmin today. Had a decent punt.

Quite a few punts in Garmin to go at, well played.

RideOnTime

Above The Cows wrote:

RideOnTime are you a fellow traveller on the weird and wonderful omnibus of OCD?

That was beautiful. Now excuse me while I re-arrange these pens and post-its into perfect right angles.

No, I wouldn't say that. Just hold on a minute I can't submit this too early - its nice to see 2 minutes exactly between each thread. I just hope everyone's got their helmets on straight today.

TMR

I have to say that individual TT is the most boring aspect of cycling. TTT however is incredibly beautiful and I am very fond of it. Looking forward to today.

How would one go about placing a bet on this? I don't bet. Ever.

tgotb

Turfle wrote:

Hoping OPQS and Sky aren't too handicapped, but mostly hoping G makes it safely through the day.

How's the cutoff time calculated/applied for a TTT? Obviously a blow for him not to be on the front, but is it an option for him to pootle around the course on his own?

TMR

TGOTB wrote:

How's the cutoff time calculated/applied for a TTT? Obviously a blow for him not to be on the front, but is it an option for him to pootle around the course on his own?

Yes. They only need 5 to cross the line for their time.

greasedscotsman

TheStone wrote:

What's the longest anyone's gone between yellow jerseys?

Gino Bartali won the Tour in 1938 and 1948?

RideOnTime

greasedscotsman wrote:

TheStone wrote:

What's the longest anyone's gone between yellow jerseys?

Gino Bartali won the Tour in 1938 and 1948?

That's ten years.

Always good with maths.

RideOnTime

The Mad Rapper wrote:

I have to say that individual TT is the most boring aspect of cycling. TTT however is incredibly beautiful and I am very fond of it. Looking forward to today.

How would one go about placing a bet on this? I don't bet. Ever.

Is this the right time to start!!! :shock: :? :shock:
I think a straight bet on the winner of the TdF might be a better option.
Odds on Froome far too short IMO.

above_the_cows

Meanwhile over at the Tour of Austria, Eisel's got the right idea.

Richmond Racer

TGOTB wrote:

Turfle wrote:

Hoping OPQS and Sky aren't too handicapped, but mostly hoping G makes it safely through the day.

How's the cutoff time calculated/applied for a TTT? Obviously a blow for him not to be on the front, but is it an option for him to pootle around the course on his own?

He can do an ITT but he can't pootle - he still has to make the cut-off time which is the winning team's time +25%

FJS

The Mad Rapper wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

How's the cutoff time calculated/applied for a TTT? Obviously a blow for him not to be on the front, but is it an option for him to pootle around the course on his own?

Yes. They only need 5 to cross the line for their time.

No. The same cut- off time rules as in an individual TT - 25 % of the winning team's time, so that'll be about 7 minutes? No pootling around, especially not if you're dropped early

TMR

FJS wrote:

No. The same cut- off time rules as in an individual TT - 25 % of the winning team's time, so that'll be about 7 minutes? No pootling around, especially not if you're dropped early

Aah, thanks for correcting me. I didn't realise that. Makes sense though!

mike6

The Mad Rapper wrote:

TGOTB wrote:

How's the cutoff time calculated/applied for a TTT? Obviously a blow for him not to be on the front, but is it an option for him to pootle around the course on his own?

Yes. They only need 5 to cross the line for their time.

Surely only the riders finishing in or with the first 5 get that time. Any tailed off get there own finishing time. Am I right, or way off? I should know I have seen enough Tours.

I love TTTs. Poetry in motion when done well. Also I cant understand trams who always struggle with them. It is a cycling discipline that is often in GTs. They have all the TT kit, so why not practice the skill involved? Its a bit like a football team not practicing defending corners.

graeme_s-2

mike6 wrote:

Surely only the riders finishing in or with the first 5 get that time. Any tailed off get there own finishing time. Am I right, or way off?

You're right.