Riding without paying.

Big Hairy Wallapers

How common place do you feel this is?
Would you feel guilty?
Do current entry fees represent value?

I welcome your views.

me-109

I rode yesterday without paying. To and from work. I don't feel guilty - that's what Cycle2Work is for. :-)

But I don't think that's what you mean?

Presumably this in only sportives, because I've never seen anyone race that shouldn't be there. Well, perhaps, but at least they've paid the entry.

I am the god of hell fire

Id feel pretty hacked off if my next sportive was crashed by people who hadnt paid

It cost me about 85 quid IIRC which paid masses of police to close the roads, the regulation timing chip, a modest goody bag, a T shirt from Rapha, clearing up afterwards, a great route and some other bits and pieces I cant remember

Oh hang on....

Are you taking about riding your bike around a public road mingling with riders who paid £40 for a stale pice of bakewell slice and a cardboard map?

noiseboyfeetman

I wouldn't knowingly go out purposefully to crash a sportive route, I have however followed part of a route whilst doing a normal weekend ride and seeing signs on my route that led elsewhere followed them to check out some new roads that I hadn't ventured on before. I followed the route for a while before rejoining my normal route and carrying on as per usual.

Turning up purposefully to ride a route without paying is a bit out of order but given the cost that some sportives are I wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people did. I simply just download the route for sportives in my area and add it to my Garmin for a later date if I want to do it.

As for entry fees it varies, some offer good value, well organised, well stocked feed stations and free goodies so in my eyes are good value. Others aren't. All depends on the organiser.

turboslave

I presume you mean Sportive's and charity rides,

I don't have a problem with people Pirating the mainstream Sportive organisers, they mainly offer good value to the unsuspecting/uneducated riders who are happy to fork out for refreshments and goodie bags, marshals in event where they don't know the terrain, etc. However I do feel that expecting a local rider to pay up to £40 to ride the same roads they cover free any day of the year is expecting too much, they should adopt a postcode discount or expect locals to join in for free.

Regulation timing chip, WTF!!

Big Hairy Wallapers

Yes I am referring to local sportives.
I like value in everything in life. I feel the closed roads, free Tshirt, good feed stations etc are a long way from £25 to ride your own bike on public roads that you may be on anyway. One recent event was 3 sportives in 3 days and camping in your own tent in a field - £215 IIRC. Err no thanks!

If you felt 'disgruntled' because the odd rider or two hadn't paid how would you express this feeling?
Big stick in his front wheel??!!

Cheers

markhewitt1978

Closed roads are a different thing as presumably the roads are closed for all, including cyclists not involved in the event. If it's just your normal Evans sportive then there's nothing in the world just stopping you turning up and riding the course. Morally I wouldn't have an issue either as it's public roads - however if you stopped at the feed stations and took some food and drink that would be theft.

Phil_D

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Closed roads are a different thing as presumably the roads are closed for all, including cyclists not involved in the event. If it's just your normal Evans sportive then there's nothing in the world just stopping you turning up and riding the course. Morally I wouldn't have an issue either as it's public roads - however if you stopped at the feed stations and took some food and drink that would be theft.

You'd have a hard time convincing my solicitor of that if the person manning the feeding station gave it me without being forced to

turboslave

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

Yes I am referring to local sportives.
I like value in everything in life. I feel the closed roads, free Tshirt, good feed stations etc are a long way from £25 to ride your own bike on public roads that you may be on anyway. One recent event was 3 sportives in 3 days and camping in your own tent in a field - £215 IIRC. Err no thanks!

If you felt 'disgruntled' because the odd rider or two hadn't paid how would you express this feeling?
Big stick in his front wheel??!!

Cheers

If you are happy to pay to enter the event then that is your choice, as already said they are public roads in most cases open to all, how would you know who hasn't paid to ride in the event, not displaying a number doesn't mean they cant use that piece of road, they could be locals on a social ride, timing chips blah, if you have a computer you will know your time, its not a race so your placing means for nothing, the T-shirt isn't for free, you paid remember, and the feed station usually want a donation so you pay again!! just take your own food, stop at a café/shop.

As for the big stick, if you feel the event offers 'you' value for money, be happy and just enjoy the ride.

phreak

I suspect before long we'll start to see a thinning out of sportives. They're undoubtably in a boom at the moment, but will it be long before people balk at paying the large fees for what are often pretty unspectacular events?

markhewitt1978

Phil_D wrote:

You'd have a hard time convincing my solicitor of that if the person manning the feeding station gave it me without being forced to

You'd be knowingly taking something you weren't entitled to, so that would be theft IMO; the fact that your misrepresenting yourself as an event participant is a factor too.

Ankles50

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

Yes I am referring to local sportives.
I like value in everything in life. I feel the closed roads, free Tshirt, good feed stations etc are a long way from £25 to ride your own bike on public roads that you may be on anyway. One recent event was 3 sportives in 3 days and camping in your own tent in a field - £215 IIRC. Err no thanks!

If you felt 'disgruntled' because the odd rider or two hadn't paid how would you express this feeling?
Big stick in his front wheel??!!

Cheers

You're talking about the one on the North Norfolk coast, based around Holkham? That really didn't appear value for money at all when i looked at it

Personally if the route is marshalled and feed stations stocked with feed/fluids i don't mind paying £20-30 for circa 100mile route. I think that's an affordable infrequent expense, the creeping up of prices towards the £40 and even £50 (especially when you see european events, including bona fide Classic routes, sub £20) is only going to encourage more pirate riders

Locally i just do Audaxes as they're typically £7-8 only and often come with home made cakes at the finish

markhewitt1978

Makes the Evans ones look good value at £15, with a big pack of High5 products and well stocked feed stations. Pity they don't have many around here.

Mikey23

Wasn't this subject done to death a few weeks ago?

me-109

Phil_D wrote:

markhewitt1978 wrote:

Closed roads are a different thing as presumably the roads are closed for all, including cyclists not involved in the event. If it's just your normal Evans sportive then there's nothing in the world just stopping you turning up and riding the course. Morally I wouldn't have an issue either as it's public roads - however if you stopped at the feed stations and took some food and drink that would be theft.

You'd have a hard time convincing my solicitor of that if the person manning the feeding station gave it me without being forced to

That would be 'obtaining goods by deception'.

AchillesLeftKnee

Big Hairy Wallapers wrote:

Yes I am referring to local sportives.

I live in the Surrey Hills area, and sportives (and charity rides, audaxes, etc.) are virtually one per weekend at this time of year. There are only so many realistic routes around some parts of the area, so I quite regularly end up gate-crashing portions (sometimes quite long) of sportives when out riding. It's not deliberate, but I'll be b*****ed if I'm going to stay off the roads just because there are a few signs up (which there always are, because the messy sods are useless at cleaning up).

gavinbay

Next Saturday I'm sort of gate crashing the Marmotte, or if the weather is bad on the Sat (Marmotte day) I'll gate crash the Luc Alpand Sportive.

Just that even though I'm out in the mountains for seven or so weeks I have a mate coming up to cycle some big climbs the weekend of the Marmotte, and living in Serre my options are limited, though we could do Izoard loop and quite a few others, Galibier is the main draw.

Our plan however is to get through Bourg a half hour before the start and do the two big climbs and then peel off back down to Serre Chevalier from Lautaret when the Marmotte goes on back to Bourg and finished up ADH. For sure we might use the feed stations etc if not too manic, but will probably opt for a cafe.

So a wee bit similar to the guy that lives in the North Downs and likewise for me who does all my cycling over the South Downs though no sportives go up the hills we use, mainly because they are dead ends

I'm not worried about time as I know if it's warm / hot then my performance is way down on what I can achieve if it's cooler, in fact that's probably one of the reasons I don't bother with Sportives, that said I have some very enthusiastic friends who still like to shell out £30plus to cycle the same routes we do anyway, and that could well be another reason why I just get on with it, as I was cycling many routes before "sportives" became popular, we used to call them Audax events.

In fact one great event we do is the Tour of the Surrey Hills in August, one of the toughest rides there is, and that is an Audax event and costs £6.50 http://www.aukweb.net/events/detail/13-356/

Mikey23

Plus 1 for audax... Did one a couple of weeks ago and I enjoyed it hugely ... Cost a few quid to enter and got free coffee and cake at the local cafe headquarters who is a cyclist. Enjoyed the cameraderie of it and the problem solving but not the huge amount of climbing!

itisaboutthebike

I did the '98 Etape w/o paying............well I paid Stanley Baxter the £40 deposit but didn't pay the rest as I broke my collar bone on the 8th May..............but in the end booked European Bike Express (was excellent) stayed in a hotel at the bottom of the Glandon.......stayed up to 1am drinking 'genepie' in the bar............and joined in with the masses as they passed the hotel at 8am. And rode with me broken collar bone on me touring bike with guards/rack/28mm tyres. Never ground me teeth down with the pain tho.......

I didn't partake of any of the food stops - bought a sandwich and water in a café just before the start of the Telegraph.........

Rock n Roll...........

I have paid the entry fee for that theer ride on the 6th July in the same area tho...........

Grill

Mikey23 wrote:

Plus 1 for audax... Did one a couple of weeks ago and I enjoyed it hugely ... Cost a few quid to enter and got free coffee and cake at the local cafe headquarters who is a cyclist. Enjoyed the cameraderie of it and the problem solving but not the huge amount of climbing!

This.

Other than that there's nothing wrong with tagging along on a sportive. They're public roads and as long as you don't partake in cake stops then it's not like it's costing them a red cent which they could surely afford based upon the ridiculous entry fees.

AllanES

noiseboyfeetman wrote:

I simply just download the route for sportives in my area and add it to my Garmin for a later date if I want to do it.

This

I do it as a useful way of finding out new local routes which hopefully include "bike-friendly" lanes and roads.

Der Kaiser

Personally there's nothing to stop somebody joining at the start. Legally you can't stop people riding on the public highway.

However I feel that if the riders that haven't paid make use of the feed stations or the mechanical assistance then this is not on. Theses are the main things I pay for when riding a sportive.

I did a charity sportive which was only about £15 to enter and I saw riders roll up and take part without paying. Same with some club organised Sportives. This is really taking the p1$$ because these are being done to benefit people less fortunate or local sporting clubs. It speaks of your morals if you ride without paying towards these.

Mind you I did a local reliability ride without paying first. I made sure I paid the organisers afterwards and apologised for my oversight.

pussander

Out of interest then, if you are gatecrashing the sportive (but not using feedstops etc) why exactly are you doing it? My take on it is that you must be getting something out of it otherwise you wouldn't bother riding the route at the same time as everyone else. That something you get is what everyone else is paying for. So don't delude yourself that you are not ripping off those you are riding with.

Big Hairy Wallapers

I asked for the opinion of others.
I don't make a habit of 'gate crashing' a Sportive every weekend.
I find your statement of 'deluding myself that I'm not ripping off paying riders' a fairly strong reaction and can understand the earlier comment that if each paying rider feels they are getting value then they are happy and I am in no way stopping them from enjoying their ride.

That said I still struggle to justify in my own head paying £25+ to ride my own bike 50miles on public roads.
I agree that hoovering up all the cakes at the feed stops would be bad form if not 'illegal'.

Thanks for your comments.

NUFCrichard

GavinBay wrote:

For sure we might use the feed stations etc if not too manic, but will probably opt for a cafe.

Oh goody, when I arrive at the feed stops and find that there is nothing left, I will think of those kind people who decided to nick the food that they haven't paid for. I have no problem with people riding the route on the same day, but don't use the feed stops, they will be stocked for the number of entrants, not for everyone who happens to pass by.

zardoz

Turfing up and riding a Sportive on the same day without paying really just means you're a tightass who wants all the benefits of the organisation of the event but doesn't want to pay for it. I fully accept that these are open roads blah blah blah, so why not do the same route but on a different day? For the people who don't want to or can't afford to pay there are plenty of other alternatives such as Audax, club rides, using the route on a differnet day or just doing your own thing.

It's a similar attitude to people who think its alright to download their music and films for free, you can do it but that doesn't mean that it's right.

markhewitt1978

I guess there's a big difference between deliberately going to an area you know a sportive is on, and riding the route. Compared to a sportive happening to take place near you and you decide to ride the route as you were going to head that direction(ish) anyway.

The comparison to downloading music isn't valid IMO, it's an open & public road, so you are free to cycle, walk, even drive the route if you feel like it.

e.g. There's a couple of sportives which pass near me in the North Pennines in an area I would often cycle in anyway, on that day I might decide to ride out and do part of the route, I don't see any reason why I shouldn't. I think that's very different from going to the start then doing the entire route to the end.

Grill

zardoz wrote:

Turfing up and riding a Sportive on the same day without paying really just means you're a tightass who wants all the benefits of the organisation of the event but doesn't want to pay for it. I fully accept that these are open roads blah blah blah, so why not do the same route but on a different day? For the people who don't want to or can't afford to pay there are plenty of other alternatives such as Audax, club rides, using the route on a differnet day or just doing your own thing.

It's a similar attitude to people who think its alright to download their music and films for free, you can do it but that doesn't mean that it's right.

And yet it's proven that those who illegally download their films and music are also those who buy the most. I would wager that this parallels the cycling world.

BTW- Paying £60 to ride a sportive is hardly an exercise in responsible spending

markhewitt1978

Grill wrote:

BTW- Paying £60 to ride a sportive is hardly an exercise in responsible spending

£15 that Evans charge is about right IMO. You get a map, a well marked route and feed stations, you don't need much else. £28 that Wiggle charge is starting to get high where you have to consider if it's worth it.

£60 is just silly although I appreciate some of the events charging that much have closed roads. But then the Durham Big Ride you pay £15 and you get closed roads - you only get 25 miles, half on a gravel path, but still

zardoz

Grill wrote:

zardoz wrote:

Turfing up and riding a Sportive on the same day without paying really just means you're a tightass who wants all the benefits of the organisation of the event but doesn't want to pay for it. I fully accept that these are open roads blah blah blah, so why not do the same route but on a different day? For the people who don't want to or can't afford to pay there are plenty of other alternatives such as Audax, club rides, using the route on a differnet day or just doing your own thing.

It's a similar attitude to people who think its alright to download their music and films for free, you can do it but that doesn't mean that it's right.

And yet it's proven that those who illegally download their films and music are also those who buy the most. I would wager that this parallels the cycling world.

I'll try that argument when I next go down to Tesco's "Well I spend a lot of money with you, so I thought I'd nick a few things as well" I would love to see where your proof for this statement comes from.

markhewitt1978

zardoz wrote:

I'll try that argument when I next go down to Tesco's "Well I spend a lot of money with you, so I thought I'd nick a few things as well" I would love to see where your proof for this statement comes from.

Not comparable at all. Tesco paid for those goods and by you stealing them they lost the money they'd paid for them.