'98 retro testing...

Richmond Racer

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Verbruggen was warned in the early 90s about EPO and the link to the deaths of the young riders were dropping down dead. Did toot all. And the best that he could come up with in the end after trying to do nothing for as long as possibel, was the 50% crit max, which just gave everyone a licence to dope up to 49.9%.

I'm not sure what he could have done. It's like a kid getting beaten up by a group of bullies - you can tell him to fight back, but in reality there's sod all he can do.

It suited him to do bugger all for years. He even made a ludicrous statement in 94 after the Geweiss team did their ridiculous thang at F-W that the other teams needed to train harder, and played down Ferrari's 'EPO is no more dangerous than orange juice' comment as journos stirring it up.

DeadCalm

disgruntledgoat wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

I don't understand why he's not more p1ssed. He's been robbed of high placings, stage wins and who knows overall victories by a succession of cheats, many of whom are still in the peloton and many of whom probably still dope.

Because he's not sure that he would have won if everyone was clean. Instead he is famous for supposedly having ridden clean - something that will increasingly pay well. His prize and his achievement is a moral one - it is a competition he feels he has won.

Moncoutie's work ethic and training regime were legendary. As Matt Rendell once described it - "Pottering around a Parisian park twice a week". He made Freire look like a workaholic.

That and he couldn't ride in a bunch even after 12 years as a pro

All of which makes him a legend in my book.

deejay

Timoid. wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

Interesting... most of the big names already confirmed (Pantani, Ulrich, Boogert, Dekker et al) or highly suspicious (Cippolini etc).
But how many of these are in the 5%? Voigt, Boardman, McEwen, Sciandri, Backsted, O'Grady, Tschimil...

1: Boardman.

I find this list Intreguing and to use an analogy of this next post.

bockers wrote:

One positive outcome of exposing the extent of EPO use in the past should be major change in the top of the UCI. If they did not know about endemic drug use then they should be sacked, if they did know but swept it under the carpet then again they should be sacked.

With Boardman a room mate of Gaumont, then why has he not said anything about the Gaumont drugs. ??
He did some hard work on his behalf through Mont Cassel for Gaumont to win the 4 Jour Dunkerque Race. :roll:

Richmond Racer

deejay wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

Interesting... most of the big names already confirmed (Pantani, Ulrich, Boogert, Dekker et al) or highly suspicious (Cippolini etc).
But how many of these are in the 5%? Voigt, Boardman, McEwen, Sciandri, Backsted, O'Grady, Tschimil...

1: Boardman.

I find this list Intreguing and to use an analogy of this next post.

bockers wrote:

One positive outcome of exposing the extent of EPO use in the past should be major change in the top of the UCI. If they did not know about endemic drug use then they should be sacked, if they did know but swept it under the carpet then again they should be sacked.

With Boardman a room mate of Gaumont, then why has he not said anything about the Gaumont drugs. ??
He did some hard work on his behalf through Mont Cassel for Gaumont to win the 4 Jour Dunkerque Race. :roll:

Well, for starters, was stuff done in the room in front of him - elsewhere - outside of the race etc

And ultimately let's count how many people have been whistleblowers...

joelsim

It surely suited Verbruggen to not 'find' much doping so as the ensure there was still loads of cash piling in from sponsors/TV companies etc. My guess is that his annual bonus could have had something to do with it, and any other generous presents (in the FIFA mould).

timoid.

deejay wrote:

Timoid. wrote:

dish_dash wrote:

Interesting... most of the big names already confirmed (Pantani, Ulrich, Boogert, Dekker et al) or highly suspicious (Cippolini etc).
But how many of these are in the 5%? Voigt, Boardman, McEwen, Sciandri, Backsted, O'Grady, Tschimil...

1: Boardman.

I find this list Intreguing and to use an analogy of this next post.

bockers wrote:

One positive outcome of exposing the extent of EPO use in the past should be major change in the top of the UCI. If they did not know about endemic drug use then they should be sacked, if they did know but swept it under the carpet then again they should be sacked.

With Boardman a room mate of Gaumont, then why has he not said anything about the Gaumont drugs. ??
He did some hard work on his behalf through Mont Cassel for Gaumont to win the 4 Jour Dunkerque Race. :roll:

That's a bit harsh. The man didn't dope and paid an unfair price because of it. Do you expect him to shout out and then lose his career, especially when the governing body would be the first to hound him out?

No chance.

TheBigBean

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

RichN95.

Richmond Racer wrote:

I was thinking about this last night. If you were a tested rider during that 98 Tour, and you know you were on the juice at the time...and you're still in cycling as a rider, or a DS or a manager or a commentator*...how the hell do you sleep at night right now?

They will probably just look at this advert (which appears in the Official Tour de France roadbook) and think 'what's the worst that can happen?'

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

I was thinking about this last night. If you were a tested rider during that 98 Tour, and you know you were on the juice at the time...and you're still in cycling as a rider, or a DS or a manager or a commentator*...how the hell do you sleep at night right now?

They will probably just look at this advert (which appears in the Official Tour de France roadbook) and think 'what's the worst that can happen?'

Gobsmacked. Utterly.

Yellow Peril

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony. The best dopers usually develop a second string to their bow that they never seemed to possess before. That and the fact that he is British and knows how to queue, which of course Johnny Foreigner doesn't.

RichN95.

No tA Doctor wrote:

Gobsmacked. Utterly.

As tweeted by Mr Millar

https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/3 ... 6466610176

edhornby

true dat Yellow Peril - sprinter Jalabert, few years later in the polka dot jersey...

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

I was thinking about this last night. If you were a tested rider during that 98 Tour, and you know you were on the juice at the time...and you're still in cycling as a rider, or a DS or a manager or a commentator*...how the hell do you sleep at night right now?

They will probably just look at this advert (which appears in the Official Tour de France roadbook) and think 'what's the worst that can happen?'

Just watched the first 5 minutes of this new Eurosport show, "The Ride", in which 2 lucky "winners" get to ride the Ventoux stage with the help of two ex-pros.
The Scandinavian bloke got either Sean Kelly, or a Madame Tussaud's knock off, while the French bloke got.........
..........Mr Festina.
At which point, I voted with the delete button.

sherer

Hinault makes a good point about this. Why is it once again that just cycling samples are being re-tested. Why not test the FIFA World Cup samples or other sports as well. It's not just cycling that has cheats yet it's only cycling that ever gets into the news. Same with the Fuentes trial and the only names being made public were cyclists and I feel the Spanish covered up the other sports

BR 1979

RichN95 wrote:

They will probably just look at this advert (which appears in the Official Tour de France roadbook) and think 'what's the worst that can happen?'

That is absolutely bloody sickening.

r0bh

Good piece (again) by Robert Millar: http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert ... ng-stories

dolan_driver

Thanks for that link. It is another intriguing piece of writing from Robert Millar. He says what he really thinks, as usual.

DD.

No_Ta_Doctor

RichN95 wrote:

No tA Doctor wrote:

Gobsmacked. Utterly.

As tweeted by Mr Millar

https://twitter.com/millarmind/status/3 ... 6466610176

And looking equally stylish here:

FJS

RichN95 wrote:

They will probably just look at this advert (which appears in the Official Tour de France roadbook) and think 'what's the worst that can happen?'

Lucien van Impe is now saying he has turned down the invitation to attend the last stage with all living Tour de France riders, because of the Virenque ad: http://www.nieuwsblad.be/sportwereld/cn ... 1_00643846

Paulie W

Just how photoshopped is that image?! I cant see a single track mark.

arnuf

FJS wrote:

Lucien van Impe is now saying he has turned down the invitation to attend the last stage with all living Tour de France riders, because of the Virenque ad: http://www.nieuwsblad.be/sportwereld/cn ... 1_00643846

Is he suggesting there is hypocrisy in cycling?

mididoctors

Richmond Racer wrote:

I was thinking about this last night. If you were a tested rider during that 98 Tour, and you know you were on the juice at the time...and you're still in cycling as a rider, or a DS or a manager or a commentator*...how the hell do you sleep at night right now?

:shock:


* leaving aside the USADA lot, and others who've already been done

the guys who really should be losing sleep are those now with minute traces from micro dosing is my take on things

the shocking truth would be [from 98] if there was a large number of negatives

davidof

Sorry I can never think about Virinque without his superb advert for the Tour de France Caravan coming to mind

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxD1eNHs0Io

:-)

Richard Virinque is a laughing stock in France, not least because of the drug taking.

davidof

Yellow Peril wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony.

Boardman had some good results. A second in the DL comes to mind and a good result in the PN. Ok some of that down to time won in the ITT. He had trouble climbing with the leaders, especially on the 2nd and 3rd grand col of the day but with EPO, who knows what he could have won.

petemadoc

davidof wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony.

Boardman had some good results. A second in the DL comes to mind and a good result in the PN. Ok some of that down to time won in the ITT. He had trouble climbing with the leaders, especially on the 2nd and 3rd grand col of the day but with EPO, who knows what he could have won.

If boardman doped..... Well then the end is nigh

mike6

PeteMadoc wrote:

davidof wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony.

Boardman had some good results. A second in the DL comes to mind and a good result in the PN. Ok some of that down to time won in the ITT. He had trouble climbing with the leaders, especially on the 2nd and 3rd grand col of the day but with EPO, who knows what he could have won.

If boardman doped..... Well then the end is nigh

I dont believe he did. If you watch "The Final Hour" DVD about his hour ride he explains that he we packing in because he had an illness. His body was not producing male hormones, making him weaker and his recovery from efforts slower, and leading to osteoporosis. He produced three certificates from doctors but the cycling powers refused to let him use the medication as it was, I think, testosterone. If he was juicing I dont think he would have bothered asking the UCI about testosterone.
I think the headline at the time was "Boardman retires, to take drugs".

TONY.M

mike6 wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

davidof wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony.

Boardman had some good results. A second in the DL comes to mind and a good result in the PN. Ok some of that down to time won in the ITT. He had trouble climbing with the leaders, especially on the 2nd and 3rd grand col of the day but with EPO, who knows what he could have won.

If boardman doped..... Well then the end is nigh

I dont believe he did. If you watch "The Final Hour" DVD about his hour ride he explains that he we packing in because he had an illness. His body was not producing male hormones, making him weaker and his recovery from efforts slower, and leading to osteoporosis. He produced three certificates from doctors but the cycling powers refused to let him use the medication as it was, I think, testosterone. If he was juicing I dont think he would have bothered asking the UCI about testosterone.
I think the headline at the time was "Boardman retires, to take drugs".

This can be a very sad side of Anti-doping which in theory of course is a great idea, but it does not always work in the best interest of every athlete who may have health issues which can be treated with drugs that may be on the banned list - even if no performance gain is actually being received.

Anyway getting off topic.

Tony

mididoctors

TONY.M wrote:

mike6 wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

davidof wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

TheBigBean wrote:

Out of interest, why is everyone so sure Boardman didn't dope?

For me it's because he was too much of a one trick pony.

Boardman had some good results. A second in the DL comes to mind and a good result in the PN. Ok some of that down to time won in the ITT. He had trouble climbing with the leaders, especially on the 2nd and 3rd grand col of the day but with EPO, who knows what he could have won.

If boardman doped..... Well then the end is nigh

I dont believe he did. If you watch "The Final Hour" DVD about his hour ride he explains that he we packing in because he had an illness. His body was not producing male hormones, making him weaker and his recovery from efforts slower, and leading to osteoporosis. He produced three certificates from doctors but the cycling powers refused to let him use the medication as it was, I think, testosterone. If he was juicing I dont think he would have bothered asking the UCI about testosterone.
I think the headline at the time was "Boardman retires, to take drugs".

This can be a very sad side of Anti-doping which in theory of course is a great idea, but it does not always work in the best interest of every athlete who may have health issues which can be treated with drugs that may be on the banned list - even if no performance gain is actually being received.

Anyway getting off topic.

Tony

IIRC it was the other way round

the UCI were going to give him a big carte blanche and he decided to bow out instead.

TheBigBean

What happened to this? I thought the list of names was supposed to be released.

Turfle

TheBigBean wrote:

What happened to this? I thought the list of names was supposed to be released.

On Wednesday.