'98 retro testing...

mididoctors

FFS guys

nic_77

Richmond Racer wrote:

Here's an interesting discussion point. Let's take 2 riders of the same age: Andrew Talansky and Peter Kennaugh.

Talansky: rides for Garmin. Run by ex-doper, at least 5 team mates ex-dopers. Dont know the name of his coach, but its certainly in-house, under Bobby Ketchell.

Kennaugh: rides for GB and Sky. Both run by Brailsford. Coached by Rod Ellingworth. Has grown up in BC and the GB Academy and track programme, who've had a no-needles policy since 96, and are frequently held up as a shining example of a sporting body with a very strong AD stance.

Just because neither Brailsford not Ellingworth are ex-dopers, does that make it any more likely that Kennaugh will fall from the path of righteousness, or that they run an environment in which such things are likely - or indeed that anomalies in performance through the training data files, or blood tests done in house, wouldnt be spotted?

Personally I think neither Garmin nor Sky have environments that are conducive to riders doping - but I dont buy this business of you had to be there having experienced the temptations of doping, to ward off the young riders of today.

You set the right environment for doing things the right way. You provide the right support for the riders. You make clear the consequences if the rider dopes. And you monitor your riders performance etc.

My parents weren't criminals but that didnt stop them from bringing me up to know right from wrong.

Different but perfectly acceptable approaches, same end result... rider unlikely to dope. Personally I prefer Sky's zero tolerance but it's certainly harder to achieve.

Take different riders of similar age, say Tanel Kangert or Fabio Aru of Team Astana. How convinced are we that they are being given either the right guidance or moral strength not to fall into a doping mentality? (No inference on either individual by the way).

iainf72

Richmond Racer wrote:

Just because neither Brailsford not Ellingworth are ex-dopers, does that make it any more likely that Kennaugh will fall from the path of righteousness, or that they run an environment in which such things are likely - or indeed that anomalies in performance through the training data files, or blood tests done in house, wouldnt be spotted?
.

Yeah, but Sky and BC have that experience in lower down the foodchain, innit :P

Yellow Peril

iainf72 wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Just because neither Brailsford not Ellingworth are ex-dopers, does that make it any more likely that Kennaugh will fall from the path of righteousness, or that they run an environment in which such things are likely - or indeed that anomalies in performance through the training data files, or blood tests done in house, wouldnt be spotted?.

Yeah, but Sky and BC have that experience in lower down the foodchain, innit :P

As much as I'd like to say it would guarantee a difference I know it can't. I'm sure that young riders are just as safe under the guidance of Holy Dave at Garmin.

Good debate this, chapeau to all sides of the argument on that point.

deejay

RichN95 wrote:

I'm betting that you personally did sod all to combat doping in the last 25 years, so I don't see why making you aware of someone's doping now is going have bearing on the sport's future.

What could we do in 1996 when we first recognised the outstanding improvement of an average rider who ponced about on the mountains before shooting off to win. That mannerism had never been seen before.
Cry foul, Fraud and stuff that most people thought was crackers with that point of view.
At times it was even dangerous to Boo those riders.
This performance was something far greater than the usual stuff we accepted was taken in the peloton since we learned from the Tom Simpson Inquiry and by those (so called) Amateur Soviet riders.
I was gullible in 1994 with Moreno Argentin's, Gewiss-Ballan team winning the early season classics because we had respect for Argentin's Palmares and him being a hard taskmaster in getting this team in training to his standards.
The Gewiss team performances in that years Giro d'Italia against Indurain with Berzin and Ugromov able to out perform the Spaniard made us suspicious that some new drug was being used. (at the time we thought East German/Soviet stuff was now in the peloton)
In that Gewiss team was a domestic Bjarne Riis.
So what could we have done as there was no Internet or social networks and the media happy to go along and we just hoped that one day we could be vindicated.

mike6

Yes, you could argue, with a lot of justification, that the Sky management have no link to the old school euro road racing scene that a lot of the other teams do have. So they are not steeped in the old practices that some of the other personalities have been.
The GB track program, that a lot of the staff and riders come from, have an Olympic background rather than a GT/classics background, and that is why I am sure the Sky team are clean.
If they are proven to be otherwise I will be deeply, deeply disappointed. But I don't think that will happen.