The Commuters Tour of France Thread - Spoilers

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  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    rjsterry wrote:
    Oooh. Talk on INRNG (via Grauniad liveblog) of Bertie changing bike, and muttering that it's because the one he was riding wouldn't meet the weight check at the end of the stage. Proving difficult to work and follow the stage.
    It's beginning to look as if everyone is willing to bend the rules to win. Even if blatant and they get caught. :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    OK, I'm going to throw this out there.

    It is a shame Froome didn't represent Kenya or South Africa - purely for the purpose of bringing cycling and awareness of talented cyclists from that part of the World to the rest of the World.

    Now I'm not going to discuss whether Froome is British or not. I've had my fill of Eastern Europeans asking me where I'm from and finding it impossible to understand that I am British, hold a British passport and have no desire or 'right' to say anything other than that ("No but where are you really from" many Eastern Europeans repeatedly ask despite being told). If Froome considers himself British then fair play to the man.

    However, due to the altitude in some places, thickness of the air etc I'd argue that some countries in Africa and other parts of the World (Columbia) would present an environment that could naturally condition a talented cyclist to be that much better. Example: The alternate reality version of me that lives outside London and commutes to work by bike, is better at climbing than me and likely to be much lighter.

    Years ago I once asked on this website whether there were any black professional cyclists - and put forward the rationale that if Countries in Africa managed to produce generation after generation of International long distance runners, couldn't they find a few guys of that mold and put a bike underneath them (Cool runnings).

    Now while I'd like to see more black professional cyclists, I've grown up since then and would now extend the above beyond race/ethnicity to simply include anyone from that climate/part of the World. It would be good to see more.

    There, I've rambled enough, flame aware.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,829
    DDD, if you've not heard of these guys, then you should take a look. There was a good article on them in Rouleur a few months ago. It seems that, much like women's cycling, the problem is getting sponsors interested enough to start throwing some money around... which is starting to happen.

    http://www.teammtnqhubeka.com/

    (Edited to sound less like a teacher setting homework)
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
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    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • wandsworth
    wandsworth Posts: 354
    I'm new to watching the Tour, and have a question. After today's stage (Stage 20), the ITV commentators were saying that Froome had won the Tour de France. But he still has to to tomorrow's stage. He won't win it, nether will his rivals for the GC, but presumably he could lose time by e.g. having a mechanical failure as Valverde did, losing 10 minutes, earlier in the Tour.

    An article on the BBC website says that Froome "won't be challenged" on what is effectively a parade into Paris. So is that some kind of understanding? Surely the sprinters will be out to win that stage, and Cav is tipped as a favourite.

    What's the story?
    Shut up, knees!

    Various Boardmans, a Focus, a Cannondale and an ancient Trek.
  • asprilla
    asprilla Posts: 8,440
    Tomorrow is a procession until they get to the Champs Elysees, with champagne being drunk en-route.

    You are right that a mechanical (or more likely a crash) could cost him the race but if he rides sensibly and keeps out of trouble no-one will attack him. Tomorrow is for the sprinters.
    Mud - Genesis Vapour CCX
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  • cjcp
    cjcp Posts: 13,345
    DDD - Froome rode for a SA team - Barloworld - in his first tour in 2008. G also rode for them.

    They folded later that year or the next, I think.

    On your environment point, I'm sure there was an article publish about four years ago concerning two Kenyan amateur cyclists who rode up ADH in 45 mins odd. Quite handy....
    FCN 2-4.

    "What happens when the hammer goes down, kids?"
    "It stays down, Daddy."
    "Exactly."
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Imagine, just imagine - because it would never happen - if Contador attacked on the way to Paris.

    It won't happen, and I think I made the same post either last year or the year before but, wouldn't be something (new) and I reckon Contador is arsehole enough to do it (but he won't).

    Congrats 'Vroom vroom' - a deserved win.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • roger_merriman
    roger_merriman Posts: 6,165
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    OK, I'm going to throw this out there.

    It is a shame Froome didn't represent Kenya or South Africa - purely for the purpose of bringing cycling and awareness of talented cyclists from that part of the World to the rest of the World.

    Now I'm not going to discuss whether Froome is British or not. I've had my fill of Eastern Europeans asking me where I'm from and finding it impossible to understand that I am British, hold a British passport and have no desire or 'right' to say anything other than that ("No but where are you really from" many Eastern Europeans repeatedly ask despite being told). If Froome considers himself British then fair play to the man.

    A lot of folks do seem unduly interested in race, parts of my family can be traced back a long old way, and seem to be English with smatterings of french and Scottish blood, but I have quite southern European features, even middle eastern in some ways, on family holidays to places like Greece, people would assume I'm Greek, And I do occasionally get asked where I'm really from no not wales etc.

    back to the race well froome is who ever he feels I feel Welsh, though no Welsh blood, and today the race is about the sprinters aka Cav and co.
  • kamiokande
    kamiokande Posts: 55
    One of the commentators on ITV4 said yesterday, referring to Contador, Quintana and Rodriguez, "they will race tomorrow". At the time he said it they were all together on the road, so the time gaps between them in the GC were, I think, only 11 and 17 seconds. The gaps are a bit bigger now, but would they race for the podium places if there were only a few seconds in it?
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    They couldn't, even if they wanted to, the parcours doesn't allow it. Any break would be chased down, and the pack will all finish on the same time. The only way a gap is going to be created is by someone getting dropped from the bunch, so the front runners will all be focussing on keeping out of trouble.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Do they need to change the points classification so that sprinters - guys who actually finish 1st at the end of a stage has a chance of winning the jersey?
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Do they need to change the points classification so that sprinters - guys who actually finish 1st at the end of a stage has a chance of winning the jersey?
    To me, it makes most sense for the points classification to go to the rider who most consistently crosses the line in the top places. If you want to see it go to the rider who most consistently crosses the line in the top places on flat stages only, then yes, they'd need to change it.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Fair point. But what we have is a OK sprinter - OK climber winning the points jersey. I'd like to the fastest sprinter winning a jersey, the best climber, the fastest overall, et al winning their respective jerseys.

    AND props to ilPrincipe for naming Quintana, young rider and polka dot jersey. Good call.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    TGOTB wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Do they need to change the points classification so that sprinters - guys who actually finish 1st at the end of a stage has a chance of winning the jersey?
    To me, it makes most sense for the points classification to go to the rider who most consistently crosses the line in the top places. If you want to see it go to the rider who most consistently crosses the line in the top places on flat stages only, then yes, they'd need to change it.

    Like they do in the Giro or the Vuelta?

    Problem then is it's basically inherited by a GC contender who has no interest in contesting it.

    What's the point of having a jersey if people don't try to contest it?

    People get confused sometimes about what a jersey is there for. It's not to find the best sprinter or climber. It's to add another competition that people want to fight for and target.

    There's one big problem with the green jersey at the moment, and there's nothing the organisers can do about it - Sagan.
    _
  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    Agreed. The green jersey is for the most consistent finisher; hard to argue against Sagan deserving that...
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • cookdn
    cookdn Posts: 410
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    kelsen wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Hang on, can you just up and switch bikes like that? OK, yes, you can change bikes if you have a mechanical to virtually the same bike, but to switch from a roadbike with ttosser bars to a full on ttosser bike [Greg] mid race - for the uber fast section - doesn't seem right to me.

    What if Contador does the same thing during a fast flat section of a next stage and then switches to a road bike specced to help him get up a hill?
    You're right! Froome, that cheating bastard!

    And the way he tricked every other team apart from Saxo Tinkoff into doing the same thing!

    220px-Dickdastardly.gif

    Drat !, Double Drat ! and Triple Drat !, you beat me to it. :-)
    Boardman CX Team
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    TGOTB wrote:
    Agreed. The green jersey is for the most consistent finisher; hard to argue against Sagan deserg that...
    You and Rick are both wrong. The most consistent finisher didn't win the green jersey. If that was the case then the green jersey would be around Marcel Kittel who won three more stages over Sagan. I don't even think Sagan won the majority of the intermediate sprints. So its a jersey for the most consistent nearly man.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    Agreed. The green jersey is for the most consistent finisher; hard to argue against Sagan deserg that...
    You and Rick are both wrong. The most consistent finisher didn't win the green jersey. If that was the case then the green jersey would be around Marcel Kittel who won three more stages over Sagan. I don't even think Sagan won the majority of the intermediate sprints. So its a jersey for the most consistent nearly man.
    It is for the guy who finishes most consistently, including intermediate stages.
    Sprinters get their glory on the day.
    Your assumption of stage winners deserving a jersey is wrong.

    The reason Sagan won the Green jersey so easily is because he fought for all points available and isn't just a glory hunter at the end of a stage, although that one Stage where Cannondale ruled was decisive. Take away the intermediate sprints/mountain points and the first 150 kms are just a procession.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    Its the day after, what has been the best tour in years. All the jersey holders rightly deserved to win. Sagan included.

    Roll on the Vuelta... (tour of poland starts this week if your interested).
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • jonginge
    jonginge Posts: 5,945
    rubertoe wrote:
    Its the day after, what has been the best tour in years. All the jersey holders rightly deserved to win. Sagan included.

    Roll on the Vuelta... (tour of poland starts this week if your interested).
    Wiggo's first race back so more interest than normal...
    FCN 2-4 "Shut up legs", Jens Voigt
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  • tgotb
    tgotb Posts: 4,714
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    Agreed. The green jersey is for the most consistent finisher; hard to argue against Sagan deserg that...
    You and Rick are both wrong. The most consistent finisher didn't win the green jersey. If that was the case then the green jersey would be around Marcel Kittel who won three more stages over Sagan. I don't even think Sagan won the majority of the intermediate sprints. So its a jersey for the most consistent nearly man.
    It's just like a points race on the track, and in fact the tactics are not dissimilar. By your logic a points race would be won by the first finisher; that would make it a scratch race.
    Pannier, 120rpm.
  • rubertoe
    rubertoe Posts: 3,994
    JonGinge wrote:
    rubertoe wrote:
    Its the day after, what has been the best tour in years. All the jersey holders rightly deserved to win. Sagan included.

    Roll on the Vuelta... (tour of poland starts this week if your interested).
    Wiggo's first race back so more interest than normal...

    I'm looking forward to it, I watch all cycling, not just the GT's.

    (although it is more tour of Italy than Poland)
    "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

    PX Kaffenback 2 = Work Horse
    B-Twin Alur 700 = Sundays and Hills
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    TGOTB wrote:
    Agreed. The green jersey is for the most consistent finisher; hard to argue against Sagan deserg that...
    You and Rick are both wrong. The most consistent finisher didn't win the green jersey. If that was the case then the green jersey would be around Marcel Kittel who won three more stages over Sagan. I don't even think Sagan won the majority of the intermediate sprints. So its a jersey for the most consistent nearly man.


    So how would you determine the Green Jersey winner?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    Kittel 1 169 186 - 187 3 122 165 127 1 172 1 124 124 165 148 46 132 146 159 1
    Froome 41 35 28 - 28 18 23 1 14 24 2 14 26 22 1 29 1 7 25 3 128
    Sagan 154 2 2 - 3 2 1 123 105 4 17 3 2 105 130 137 91 114 104 109 4


    As Rick said in the Giro or Vuelta, Froome may well have won the points jersey by 'default'
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    The point: The green jersey clearly isn't determined by the most consistent finisher, that wasn't Sagan. To finish implies the end of the race, not the intermediate sections. 'Intermediate' and 'finish' within the context of a race are two different things.

    The green jersey is a points jersey that appeals to sprinters. There is a jersey that appeals to climbers, young riders, slow riders and the overall fastest. There are even guys who turn up to the tour knowing they won't do anything else but potentially win a time-trial, a different discipline from other types of cycling.

    Because the art of sprinting is specific to a particular skill I would make it such that points are weighted towards the fastest sprinter, i.e. the guy who crosses the finish line, on designated sprint stages, first.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    Has Sir Bradley Wiggins, publicly congratulated Chris Froome yet?

    Poor show Bradders, poor show.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    The point: The Green Jersey is won by the guy that gets the most points. Sagan got the most points. Get over it.

    For the sprinters - Why not acknowledge them in a special way. We could, say, put them on a pedestal, give them a bottle of plonk, some flowers and let them kiss the podium girls. How does that sound? :wink:

    Fair point on Brad though.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Because the art of sprinting is specific to a particular skill I would make it such that points are weighted towards the fastest sprinter, i.e. the guy who crosses the finish line, on designated sprint stages, first.

    So how would you pitch this competition, with no action for most of the last 10 days or so to PMU?
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • DonDaddyD
    DonDaddyD Posts: 12,689
    TailWindHome wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Because the art of sprinting is specific to a particular skill I would make it such that points are weighted towards the fastest sprinter, i.e. the guy who crosses the finish line, on designated sprint stages, first.

    So how would you pitch this competition, with no action for most of the last 10 days or so to PMU?

    It really isn't that hard to comprehend.

    Take the most recent tour. Have the same flat stages where the sprinters can battle for points to win their 'sprinters' jersey and still keep the intermediate stage points for those contesting the green jersey.

    So an additional jersey, and no the points are not interchangable.
    Food Chain number = 4

    A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,462
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    DonDaddyD wrote:
    Because the art of sprinting is specific to a particular skill I would make it such that points are weighted towards the fastest sprinter, i.e. the guy who crosses the finish line, on designated sprint stages, first.

    So how would you pitch this competition, with no action for most of the last 10 days or so to PMU?

    It really isn't that hard to comprehend.

    Take the most recent tour. Have the same flat stages where the sprinters can battle for points to win their 'sprinters' jersey and still keep the intermediate stage points for those contesting the green jersey.

    So an additional jersey, and no the points are not interchangable.

    To be fair it's easier to understand if you suddenly introduce an additional jersey into the argument ;)
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!

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