the end for Wiggo ?

FransJacques

Sky management have a problem with respect and tradition in cycling. It's a strength and a weakness. The strength is what their iconoclastic thinking has led them to achieve, but the flipside is a slap in the face to a lot of what we're used to: they didn't respect the World Champ's jersey on Cav's back last year and they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Wiggo shouldn't take it personally, they're just hungry and hell-bent on their goals. People said the same about the Olympic team under Davie B. They didn't enjoy the dynamics and politics but they enjoyed the results. Maybe you can't have it all ways...

FJS

FransJacques wrote:

they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Since when is that a 'tradition' in cycling? People are mentioning this lately, but although the previous year's winner normally is one of the favourites, but there's no 'tradition' of him defending the title.

If anything, Wiggins could be accused of not 'respecting' the TdF, by not focusing on it the year after his win, but a tradition, no. I got the feeling that focusing on the Giro was his own choice.

awavey

FJS wrote:

FransJacques wrote:

they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Since when is that a 'tradition' in cycling? People are mentioning this lately, but although the previous year's winner normally is one of the favourites, but there's no 'tradition' of him defending the title.

If anything, Wiggins could be accused of not 'respecting' the TdF, by not focusing on it the year after his win, but a tradition, no. I got the feeling that focusing on the Giro was his own choice.

well Id certainly argue there were traditions in cycling racing and in the TdF, though whether defending a TdF title is one of them exactly Im not sure, I dont think its unprecedented for the previous years winner not to be there, its just an expectation that GT winners will always come back the next year to defend the title to try and add more.

But its not really that clear cut Wiggo wasnt respecting the TdF, he chose the Giro yes because it was supposed to be a course that suited him better than the TdF, he felt it was someting GT winners did too, but was clearly always eyeing up a run in the TdF anyway, that was Plan B, hence all the Froome debate earlier in the season about who was going to be the Sky leader, Wiggo wouldnt have been making as much noise about being in contention if he wasnt going to be there.

and in the end he didnt make the Sky selection because he picked up an injury at a crucial time and just hasnt really had the form this year with illness and various glitches, so it was an easy decision for Sky,, a fully fit Wiggo, even without the form would Im sure have been chosen, even if it then led to some internal team strife, so I do think on that count you can say Sky/Wiggo were disrespecting the TdF or the Maillot Jaune. the easier thing for them would have been to rule Wiggo completely out of the TdF from the start.

Turfle

How on earth did they not respect the World Champ's jersey?

tailwindhome

Turfle wrote:

How on earth did they not respect the World Champ's jersey?

stuffed it full of water bottles

RichN95.

All this talk of 'disrespecting the yellow jersey'. Let's have a look how the post Armstrong wearers & their teams have respected it:

Landis - Tested positive. DQ'd
Contador - Team not invited for doping reasons
Sastre - Basically dumped by his team
Contador - No problem... until...
Contador - Tested positive. DQ'd
Evans - He's OK

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

Bo Duke

FransJacques wrote:

Sky management have a problem with respect and tradition in cycling. It's a strength and a weakness. The strength is what their iconoclastic thinking has led them to achieve, but the flipside is a slap in the face to a lot of what we're used to: they didn't respect the World Champ's jersey on Cav's back last year and they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Wiggo shouldn't take it personally, they're just hungry and hell-bent on their goals. People said the same about the Olympic team under Davie B. They didn't enjoy the dynamics and politics but they enjoyed the results. Maybe you can't have it all ways...

Despite the posts that followed above I know where you're coming from. I'm a great fan of SKY however they are not a personable outfit. I don't see Dave B getting emotional for more than a few seconds and I don't picture him as a warm person not a hugger. He seems to be all business. Nothing wrong with that but needs to be identified. Not respecting the World Champion jersey means brought into SKY then hung out to dry as Wiggo went for yellow. Not respecting the TdF yellow probably means allowing the Froome spat to fester longer than it should have done then to lose face publically etc..

All said and done as I've said before, I believe Wiggo's real problem lies in over achieving last year and being burnt out. Other small factors like being knocked off his bike by a white van came at the wrong time so I suspect he wasn't sufficiently prepared come the Giro anyway. Evans had a poor post TdF year and Wiggo is going through the same, hopefully he'll bounce back next year and kick some ass. With less pressure, I wouldn't be surprised to see it.

Rundfahrt

FJS wrote:

FransJacques wrote:

they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Since when is that a 'tradition' in cycling? People are mentioning this lately, but although the previous year's winner normally is one of the favourites, but there's no 'tradition' of him defending the title.

If anything, Wiggins could be accused of not 'respecting' the TdF, by not focusing on it the year after his win, but a tradition, no. I got the feeling that focusing on the Giro was his own choice.

When was the last time a defending champion skipped the Tour other then for injury or retirement?

FJS

Rundfahrt wrote:

FJS wrote:

FransJacques wrote:

they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Since when is that a 'tradition' in cycling? People are mentioning this lately, but although the previous year's winner normally is one of the favourites, but there's no 'tradition' of him defending the title.

If anything, Wiggins could be accused of not 'respecting' the TdF, by not focusing on it the year after his win, but a tradition, no. I got the feeling that focusing on the Giro was his own choice.

When was the last time a defending champion skipped the Tour other then for injury or retirement?

Yes, normally it makes financial and sportive sense for the defending champion to start. It's unusual, but not necessarily some magical cycling tradition that needs respecting.

mike6

Well, the Tour leadership for 2013 was promised to Froome last year, to keep him happy. Brad said he wanted to ride the Giro. Win two different GTs and you can stand alongside the greats, to a certain extent.
That was my understanding.

r0bh

An added bonus of the Tour starting this week is that hopefully this thread will be consigned to the dustbin where it belongs.

TMR

RichN95 wrote:

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

You are clearly Middle Class. The rest of us would have just said bull sh*t. I bet you own a pair of Hunter boots and a Barbour jacket as well - flash sod

edhornby

FJS wrote:

Yes, normally it makes financial and sportive sense for the defending champion to start. It's unusual, but not necessarily some magical cycling tradition that needs respecting.

completely this

Cav doing bottle jersey was a great tribute to the jersey and showed classiness in working for the team - that was repaid by Wiggins on the Champs Elysees leading out

maybe the decision by Wiggins to not treat the Tour as the primary race and everything is lesser (a la Pharmstrong) as a real shot in the arm for racing as a whole

salsiccia1

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

You are clearly Middle Class. The rest of us would have just said bull sh*t. I bet you own a pair of Hunter boots and a Barbour jacket as well - flash sod

Cruises Cyncoed or Lisvane in his Range Rover, I bet

greasedscotsman

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

You are clearly Middle Class. The rest of us would have just said bull sh*t. I bet you own a pair of Hunter boots and a Barbour jacket as well - flash sod

Isn't "horse crap" more of an american thing? Maybe Rich is more into cowboy boots for line dancing than Hunter wellies.

Richmond Racer

greasedscotsman wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

You are clearly Middle Class. The rest of us would have just said bull sh*t. I bet you own a pair of Hunter boots and a Barbour jacket as well - flash sod

Isn't "horse crap" more of an american thing? Maybe Rich is more into cowboy boots for line dancing than Hunter wellies.

Ahem...possible supporting evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6T2LtffWfKk

Macaloon

While we're enjoying the Line Dancing tune-ups, may I point out that at least one Pro team takes the tradition of the defending champion seriously:



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8789509,00.html

RichN95.

Salsiccia1 wrote:

The Mad Rapper wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

So let's have a little less of this 'respecting the jersey' horse crap.

You are clearly Middle Class. The rest of us would have just said bull sh*t. I bet you own a pair of Hunter boots and a Barbour jacket as well - flash sod

Cruises Cyncoed or Lisvane in his Range Rover, I bet

Live Splott. Don't drive. I am middle class though.

tom3

I have noticed Wiggins pile on some muscle mass of late. To me this would indicate a switch to classics and smaller stage races. The type of racing that the training can be complimented by track work.

just saying....

frenchfighter

FransJacques wrote:

Sky management have a problem with respect and tradition in cycling. It's a strength and a weakness. The strength is what their iconoclastic thinking has led them to achieve, but the flipside is a slap in the face to a lot of what we're used to: they didn't respect the World Champ's jersey on Cav's back last year and they didn't respect Wiggo's defence of the Maillot Jaune this year.

Wiggo shouldn't take it personally, they're just hungry and hell-bent on their goals. People said the same about the Olympic team under Davie B. They didn't enjoy the dynamics and politics but they enjoyed the results. Maybe you can't have it all ways...

Good post.

mike6

I will say one thing in Brads defense. Most Yellow jersey winners are content to pootle around the final stage, safe in the team armchair. Wiggins ,in yellow, giving everything, leading out his team sprinter for the win on the Champs Elysee. Sheer class.

Daz555

mike6 wrote:

I will say one thing in Brads defense. Most Yellow jersey winners are content to pootle around the final stage, safe in the team armchair. Wiggins ,in yellow, giving everything, leading out his team sprinter for the win on the Champs Elysee. Sheer class.

One of my all time favourite British sporting moments. A Brit in the yellow jersey leading out a Brit in the rainbow jersey for the win on the Champs'. Awesome. 8)

ddraver

Daz555 wrote:

mike6 wrote:

I will say one thing in Brads defense. Most Yellow jersey winners are content to pootle around the final stage, safe in the team armchair. Wiggins ,in yellow, giving everything, leading out his team sprinter for the win on the Champs Elysee. Sheer class.

One of my all time favourite British sporting moments. A Brit in the yellow jersey leading out a Brit in the rainbow jersey for the win on the Champs'. Awesome. 8)

The Sprint past Sanchez was one of the best sprints I ve ever seen too, which again was set up by the yellow jersey...

inkyfingers

I loved the look on LL Sanchez's face when Sky the Sky train came past, what did they think it was? A race?

Macaloon

inkyfingers wrote:

I loved the look on LL Sanchez's face when Sky the Sky train came past, what did they think it was? A race?

The haunted visage of a man seeing the highest ideals of his calling, the honour, the elan, the esprit de corps, being crushed in the jaws of a soulless winning machine.

inkyfingers

Macaloon wrote:

inkyfingers wrote:

I loved the look on LL Sanchez's face when Sky the Sky train came past, what did they think it was? A race?

The haunted visage of a man seeing the highest ideals of his calling, the honour, the elan, the esprit de corps, being crushed in the jaws of a soulless winning machine.

Ha, brilliant.

More likely he was thinking he should have risked that extra blood bag the night before.

RideOnTime

Macaloon wrote:

While we're enjoying the Line Dancing tune-ups, may I point out that at least one Pro team takes the tradition of the defending champion seriously:



http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_8789509,00.html

great race.

oneof1982

Daz555 wrote:

mike6 wrote:

I will say one thing in Brads defense. Most Yellow jersey winners are content to pootle around the final stage, safe in the team armchair. Wiggins ,in yellow, giving everything, leading out his team sprinter for the win on the Champs Elysee. Sheer class.

One of my all time favourite British sporting moments. A Brit in the yellow jersey leading out a Brit in the rainbow jersey for the win on the Champs'. Awesome. 8)

i stood on the last corner of Rue d Rivoli, on the park wall hanging onto the railings. The sight of the Wiggo in yellow leading out the Cav in the rainbow stripes will last in the memory forever. There has been a right load of bullsh!t talked above about respecting jerseys. People happy to make up their own traditions to suit their argument.

tailwindhome

So the defending champ (national) doesn't wear the jersey on the day of the race?

Pross

TailWindHome wrote:

So the defending champ (national) doesn't wear the jersey on the day of the race?

Same with the Worlds.