Nibali too Fresh?
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Is this the rudimentary 'My favourite bezzy mate idol lover Bradley Wiggins was sh*t so everyone else must be doping' thread?0
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RichN95 wrote:If Nibali is doping then it's pretty unlikely that he's suddenly started in the ninth season of a very successful career. If he is doping now he was doing it before. Any perceived improvement will have come from elsewhere.
Which is irrelevant because doping is doping and who cares if he's trained harder whilst on the dope? :roll:
Not that I think he's doping; lets not forget that there isn't a rider left in the field that you'd expect to beat him in an uphill TT; there aren't any proper GC contenders left.0 -
plectrum wrote:1 Minute more dominant than the entire field from a cyclist who is historically an above average TTer - sure he is best at the mountain TTs but to smash everyone else in such a style.... Will cycling ever be clean - its just utterly ridiculous now. Am I the only person who is now left utterly unconvinced about Team Vino and their starlet Nibs? :roll: Happy to be convinced otherwise by those more in the know - is today's performance expected?
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RichN95 wrote:If Nibali is doping then it's pretty unlikely that he's suddenly started in the ninth season of a very successful career. If he is doping now he was doing it before. Any perceived improvement will have come from elsewhere.
Hmmm not so sure, those crazy Khazaks have some very persuasive methods...Scott Speedster S20 Roadie for Speed
Specialized Hardrock MTB for Lumps
Specialized Langster SS for Ease
Cinelli Mash Bolt Fixed for Pain
n+1 is well and truly on track
Strava http://app.strava.com/athletes/16088750 -
Festinagirl is strangely silent on this matter. A British rider on a team with a suspect doctor gets subject to all sorts of innuendo for dominating a GT (with fairly weak field) but an Italian riding on a team with a history of doping and convicted doper on the management doesn't raise an eyebrow in her little world. It seems you have to be an English speaker on an English speaking team to be a bit suspect. Consistently inconsistent. Personally I've seen nothing out of the ordinary here just as I didn't last July.0
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LeicesterLad wrote:Is this the rudimentary 'My favourite bezzy mate idol lover Bradley Wiggins was sh*t so everyone else must be doping' thread?
Errrrrrr.........Wiggins wasn't riding the TT mate.0 -
ThomThom wrote:...drops some commission worthy GIF nonsense...
It's now a pantomime argument: "ET performance", "Oh no it wasn't - just a top guy in better form than rest". Exactly like the 'case against' Wiggins in 2012. One outstanding performance from a consistently high performer over 9 years, and some unsavoury connections, is surely too weak an argument to reach for the pitchforks.
That said, I find the unqualified praise for Nibali from people who were outspoken about their 'concerns' about Wiggins quite funny....a rare 100% loyal Pro Race poster. A poster boy for the community.0 -
If you look at PTP, four people have picked someone other than Wiggins or Nibali. Given Wiggins is out, the fact Nibali is winning should hardly be a surprise to anyone.
Sometimes I wonder about the continual suggestions of doping. The history of cycling shows close connections between riders winning and doping. It's sad and it would be better if it didn't happen, but only history will reveal whether today's generation are as clean as people hope. Until then I suggest enjoying the racing.0 -
In any bike race, someone will always win. In a three week tour, it's very rare for the strongest rider not to win.0
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Not arguing but to point out some TT credentials.inkyfingers wrote:Don't think Nibali is doing anything that he hasn't done in the past, climbing well, but not exactly dropping everyone at will. It's hardly a stellar field now either unfortunately, only other proven GT contender is Evans and he's never done much other than cling on in the mountains, which is exactly what he's done here.
Only real improvement was in his TT performance, but then it wasn't a typical TT course with all the technical ups and downs then a steep finishing climb, will be interesting to see him ride a long, flat TT against Wiggins at some point and see how far he's really progressed.Wiki wrote:Early career
Nibali finished third at the Junior World Time Trial Championship in 2002 and also third at the U-23 World Time Trial Championship in 2004. He turned professional in 2005 with Fassa Bortolo. In 2006, Nibali signed with Liquigas. In that year, he won the French classic GP Ouest-France at 21 years of age.[8] He also finished in second position overall of the 2.1 rated Settimana internazionale di Coppi e Bartali, taking the win on the first stage.[9] In 2007, Nibali rode the Giro d'Italia for the first time and finished 19th overall. 2008 saw Nibali finish 10th in Liege-Bastogne-Liege, obtaining also an 11th place finish in the Giro d'Italia and a 20th place finish in the Tour de France.
So Feck Armstrong whose early career was never as good as Vincenzo's.Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 19720 -
What was his power output today - anyone .... is he over 6?0
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TheBigBean wrote:If you look at PTP, four people have picked someone other than Wiggins or Nibali. Given Wiggins is out, the fact Nibali is winning should hardly be a surprise to anyone.
Sometimes I wonder about the continual suggestions of doping. The history of cycling shows close connections between riders winning and doping. It's sad and it would be better if it didn't happen, but only history will reveal whether today's generation are as clean as people hope. Until then I suggest enjoying the racing.
I'm not surprised he's winning, he was the pre-race favourite but to smash everyone by such a distance today smacks of transfusion.0 -
It's relevant if someone is using a rider's improvement as the sole evidence for them doping.ALIHISGREAT wrote:RichN95 wrote:If Nibali is doping then it's pretty unlikely that he's suddenly started in the ninth season of a very successful career. If he is doping now he was doing it before. Any perceived improvement will have come from elsewhere.
Which is irrelevant because doping is doping and who cares if he's trained harder whilst on the dope? :roll:Twitter: @RichN950 -
Although I am not a huge fan of Nibali, ( I do like his style of riding though) I do not think he is doping.
Obviously this race is his priority so will have planned and targeted this and trained appropriately.
Add the fact that two pre race favourites withdrew for illness and that no one else was realistically challenging him for GC so would probably not be riding 100% the result is not surprising.
The suspicion will be there mainly because he is at Astana.
IMO Wiggins would definitely been better overall had he remained fit, and Ryder pretty close in 3rd.
Cadel has done well but will not hit his previous peak form now as tooooo old
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Sureley illness is no excuse? Remember you post when Wiggo withdrew?frenchfighter wrote:afx237vi wrote:clanton wrote:Nah its just Astana's superior training programme kicking in. Just look at how much better Tiralongo, Iglinksy and kangert are riding these days. Nothing dodgy going on at all.
Dunno what you've been watching, but Tiralongo has been much worse than normal in this Giro and I didn't even realise Iglinskiy was in the race. Kangert has been impressive, but I reckon we're only noticing him because of the jersey.
Tiralongo has been ill as has Aru. I`m sure we would have seen a lot more than them on the climbs if they hadnt been. Aru was doing a great job for Nibali before he got ill (and was leading the white jersey comp). 0 -
Seems to me to be a bit true. That trend of thought has actually been sadly slowly visible in the forum, ever since BW went home.LeicesterLad wrote:Is this the rudimentary 'My favourite bezzy mate idol lover Bradley Wiggins was sh*t so everyone else must be doping' thread?
It’s the same with expressed views that Nibali has had no proper opposition.
In the 2012 TdF Wiggins beat 7 riders who finished more than once in the top 10 of the TdF or the Giro during the previous five years. Nibali is currently leading 6 riders who did the same.
I see the difference as minimal and it insulting to Nibali to consider he’s winning because his opposition inferior.0 -
I think that can also be a comment on how strong he is in comparison to the field rather than how weak the field is, at least how I intended it to be.0
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they are saying 6.4-6.5 w/per kg...some years ago this was laughed at on this forum.0
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Anyway, mod hat off - that bloke in Rouleur had it right a couple issues ago.
If cycling goes all clean and there are no dealings and misshaps like a proper sport it'd be the poorer for it. For the viewer anyway.
This is Italy. Go figure.
*dons flameproof outfit and leaves the room*0 -
Well Done Rick on merging these 2 threads.
Now I can start some new ones?
Nibali is doping because he is winning
Nibali is doping because he rides for Astana
and
Vino is paying Nibali to win for Astana :shock:
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Vino also pays katusha for Astana wins...
The power estimates, if accurate (though gross estimations), are a bit more worrisome.0 -
Of course he isn`t doping.
Just read Rich`s comments.
Loving watching him cruising with panache and style. He is the type of rider to be 4mins ahead and still attack in the MTFs to come.
Heavyweight. Glad my man is owning the field. Laughing all over Sky.Contador is the Greatest0 -
knedlicky wrote:
Seems to me to be a bit true. That trend of thought has actually been sadly slowly visible in the forum, ever since BW went home.LeicesterLad wrote:Is this the rudimentary 'My favourite bezzy mate idol lover Bradley Wiggins was sh*t so everyone else must be doping' thread?
It’s the same with expressed views that Nibali has had no proper opposition.
In the 2012 TdF Wiggins beat 7 riders who finished more than once in the top 10 of the TdF or the Giro during the previous five years. Nibali is currently leading 6 riders who did the same.
I see the difference as minimal and it insulting to Nibali to consider he’s winning because his opposition inferior.
I agree but don't forget Wiggins also had to go through the doping rumours and no decent opposition comments last year. The fanboys who defended him back then seem to be the people commenting on Nibs now and some of those defending Nibs were the same ones making comments about Wiggins. There is an element of fans who are guided mainly by their dislike or support for a rider. I challenged festinagirl on her inconsistency on this and she is saying that with Sky it's all about the lack of ethics not that she thinks they are doping - not sure what that means though!0 -
frenchfighter wrote:Of course he isn`t doping.
Given the history of cycling, it takes a brave or foolish man to say this with certainty.
No I don't think he's doping either.“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Dave_1 wrote:they are saying 6.4-6.5 w/per kg...some years ago this was laughed at on this forum.
Laughed at as a poor performance or evidence of doping?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
Are people really surprised about Nibali doing well? He has very little competition, he was hardly a nobody before, most of the mountain stages have been shortened, cancelled, effected by weather leading to people just wanting to finish the stage etc. He's done well by staying upright (most of the time) and riding sensibly. The only thing that is different is arguably his performance in the TTs but neither were regular TTs. If the first TT had been 50km of flat I doubt he would have finished so far up the standings on that stage.
Who apart from Evans and Wiggins was there really who could challenge Nibali? Evans hasn't shown amazing form for a year now, Wiggins isn't there...
What did people really expect the result to be given the situation at hand?Correlation is not causation.0
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