Tips and help for a first time offroader.

gt-arrowhead

Sorry if no one can be bothered to read all of this, its quite long...

Hi, today i went on my first "proper" offroading down at some local trails. The actual trail part itself is very very short, finished it in about 2 minutes....ridiculously short but fun none the less. After that i went up some dirt tracks up hill into the forest and i went as far as i could, then i gave it the beans on the way back down, going between the trees, jumping over some small bumps, and slowing down occasionally to bounce over some small tree trunks.

When i got back to the bottom, i noticed a really long footpath that was uphill. I went all the way to the top of it and came back down as quick as possible. It must have been about a metre and a half wide with steel fences on either side and some tree trunks sticking out, so had to duck underneath those while going at full speed. Was probably the most fun ive ever had on a bike today. Really really enjoyed flying down the hills and footpaths at full speed. Loved it! I did also enjoy the more casual offroading i did, for example going up the hill, trying to "tackle" the terrain, testing out how the bike felt and how well i could ride, since i recently went from rigid to suspension forks.

But at some points i felt as if my riding was letting me down, since it was my first time. The terrain i had problems with was the areas where there was dry mud, where other cyclists had rode through and left large peaks where the tyres have run through the mud. I didnt feel comfortable going over that at all. I bounced over it and the suspension wasnt doing its job over that terrain. Damp mud also was very hard for me to get over. I got bogged down in it and it drained my speed very very quickly, i came to a stand still at one point as a result.

There were some paths that had very large rocks and stones all layed out to make a path, and i encountered this coming down hill. I hopped onto it from some grass that was beside it, thinking that it would be a good bit of offroad riding. It was dreadful!! I had almost no grip, and i could literally feel the bike going sideways down it and i wasnt even going that fast. I had a great struggle to get down on that.

I didnt feel confident turning when i was riding on terrain that was slanted. (going sideways on a hill). I felt as if i turned too much that it lose traction on either or both tyres and have a nasty crash...So i started to sort of drift down it slowly as i went along as a result. I probably would have been fine if i just turned and went higher up but i didnt push it. Again, it being my first time.

The bike isnt obviously the best bike for the job, ill probably get alot of hate for having this fork on there but it really has made a massive improvement. I did the start of the trail last time on the same bike but fully rigid, and it was unrideable. This time i found i could go faster and felt that i had more front end grip going over most stuff. And i definitely need a front mech on there. I had to rip the current one in half as the previous owner had damaged it and it rubbed against my chain no matter how much adjusting i did and how much i bent the outer guide of the mech. The chain jumped off on my twice as a result. I found it pretty doable on a 42t, but could do with less, and the mech would sort this out. I havent put a new one on yet because its a BB mount type and i dont have a BB tool just yet.

The tyres are nearing the end of their life too, nearing being bald down the middle of the tyre. They are Tioga Factory DHs. They were pretty decent today though, didnt have a massive lack of traction.

So does anyone have any tips for riding across the terrain i have mentioned, or just riding offroad in general? How else could i improve this bike without breaking the bank? Anything really that would help me improve riding offroad. Sorry for writing a novel about it...

cooldad

Practice

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

Practice

Is that all i have to do? No technique ideas or anything? Or does it just come eventually...?

cooldad

Tyres with actual tread always help.

Kowalski675

cooldad wrote:

Tyres with actual tread always help.

I was just thinking that too.

cooldad

I'm sure plenty of people will have random tips - heels down, legs flex etc.
I was taught to ride by sending me down a hill, first time I hit the fence at the bottom, second time I learnt to brake and turn.
That was forty odd years ago. I haven't really learnt much since.

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

Tyres with actual tread always help.

Haha, Yeah ofcourse. Im looking to save money and get Halo Twin Rails.

Reason being that i could use them on here then put them on my Chucker for their intended use. Then ill save up and get some decent offroad tyres.

Havent got any spare offroad tyres since im primarily a road rider, only other tyres with tread are tyres that you get off tesco bikes and stuff like that...horrible tyres.

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

I'm sure plenty of people will have random tips - heels down, legs flex etc.
I was taught to ride by sending me down a hill, first time I hit the fence at the bottom, second time I learnt to brake and turn.
That was forty odd years ago. I haven't really learnt much since.

DH as a first ride. Not bad at all!

My very first bike has a bald rear tyre...im quite proud of that. Thats as extreme as i got on my first bike

cooldad

I wouldn't quite call it DH. It was a gentle grassy slope. I cried when I hit the bottom, but in my defence I was only 4 or 5.

The Rookie

The 'suspension' won't be doing much as it's not really suspension, it's a marketing ad on (sorry)...

Ride 'light' knee's slightly bent, arms slightly bent to allow them to act as suspension with bump and rebound space, lower the saddle a little if you need more leg suspension travel at the rear without it smacking you in the arris, , weight back a bit so your arms have an easier time and it will allow the front wheel to pick up easier over bumps.

My first offroad was when I was 8, I ended up litteraly covered in mud as I rode into what looked like a muddy puddle and the front wheel went in up to it's axle before flipping me over the bars into the rest of the 12" deep gloop!

gt-arrowhead

The Beginner wrote:

The 'suspension' won't be doing much as it's not really suspension, it's a marketing ad on (sorry)...

Ride 'light' knee's slightly bent, arms slightly bent to allow them to act as suspension with bump and rebound space, lower the saddle a little if you need more leg suspension travel at the rear without it smacking you in the arris, , weight back a bit so your arms have an easier time and it will allow the front wheel to pick up easier over bumps.

My first offroad was when I was 8, I ended up litteraly covered in mud as I rode into what looked like a muddy puddle and the front wheel went in up to it's axle before flipping me over the bars into the rest of the 12" deep gloop!

It made the ride much better than when i attempted it fully rigid. Obviously isnt the best though, i know that. And its not meant for my bike, i also know that. But it worked.

Ill give all those techniques a try. I do do all of that anyway but as cooldad says ill practice with it and eventually it will get better.

Bloody hell, that must have been nasty! How was it that deep?

On the topic of going over the bars, yesterday afters school i decided to be a total bellend and try and fly off into the playground from the car park. The drop must be only 2-3 feet...but there was a little kurb on the edge. I hopped my front wheel over, going at quite some speed, then while my front wheel was over the playground surface my rear wheel clipped the kurb and slammed the front of the bike down. The mahoosive marketing tool didnt come to my rescue. it didnt compress because of the angle i landed at. Now i have a buggered wrist, and various huge cuts on my knees and elbows. :oops: :oops:

Didnt stop me going out for the first offroad yesterday, just put my watch on super tight and my wrist was not too bad. Today though, my wrist is killing! Ill see if i am able to ride a bike or not...hopefully i can!

Thanks for the tips

Chunkers1980

A quick walk may help sort your wrist out.

gt-arrowhead

Ill give a try, cheers

supersonic

That fork has to go.

gt-arrowhead

supersonic wrote:

That fork has to go.

I know...but as long as it provides the up and down motion, its better than the rigid i guess...unless i can find a cheap-ish suspension to replace this with.

This isnt long term anyway.

supersonic

Rigid is better than up and down with no damping.

gt-arrowhead

supersonic wrote:

Rigid is better than up and down with no damping.

I found it alot more rideable and fast with these.

I dont quite understand or know what damping is. :oops:

cooldad

Damping slows down the extension of the fork after it compresses and stops it acting like a pogo stick.
And if you are too young to remember pogo sticks - Google it.

gt-arrowhead

cooldad wrote:

Damping slows down the extension of the fork after it compresses and stops it acting like a pogo stick.
And if you are too young to remember pogo sticks - Google it.

I know what a pogo stick is...lol

Thanks for that. Makes a bit more sense. So, for example when the wheel comes away from the ground and the suspension goes to the fully straight position and clunks a little, that is what damping stops?

cooldad

Non damped stops in this case probably.

cooldad

The damping is independent of any stops.

supersonic

Damping can lessen the top out thud, but many better forks have negative springs and top out bumpers to stop it happening.

gt-arrowhead

Ahh, i see. Thanks for the information guys.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

On the topic of going over the bars, yesterday afters school i decided to be a total bellend and try and fly off into the playground from the car park. The drop must be only 2-3 feet...but there was a little kurb on the edge. I hopped my front wheel over, going at quite some speed, then while my front wheel was over the playground surface my rear wheel clipped the kurb and slammed the front of the bike down. The mahoosive marketing tool didnt come to my rescue. it didnt compress because of the angle i landed at. Now i have a buggered wrist, and various huge cuts on my knees and elbows. :oops: :oops:

Could be worse. When I was about 10 (long before you were born, in a mythical lost era known as "The Eighties"...) I went over the bars on my BMX (riding down some steps) and landed face first on the corner of a wall. Stitches in my lip and gum, with no anaesthetic. Didn't enjoy that much, not a good day.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

I dont quite understand or know what damping is. :oops:

Suspension is a dark art, but, put in its simplest terms, the job of suspension (on any vehicle) is to absorb bumps (not to mention forces from acceleration, braking, cornering, camber thrust etc) and keep the wheels in contact with the ground, isolating the movement of the wheels from the chassis, so that (in an ideal world) the chassis (and it's driver/rider) remains level, while the wheels do all the moving up and down. Damping is called damping because it damps (controls and slows down) the movement of the vehicle's wheels. In simplest terms it's split into compression damping and rebound damping. Compression damping controls the compression stroke (the wheel moving upwards) and is itself split into low and high speed compression damping. These terms have nothing to do with how fast the vehicle is travelling - low speed compression damping controls how the wheel tracks over undulations, and how the suspension squats under acceleration, while high speed compression damping controls the movement of the wheel when it hits a bump. Rebound damping controls the rebound stroke - how the suspension returns after being compressed. Without damping (be it by oil or air) your suspension would behave like the aforementioned pogo stick - bouncing around like Zebedee on speed.

gt-arrowhead

Kowalski675 wrote:

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

On the topic of going over the bars, yesterday afters school i decided to be a total bellend and try and fly off into the playground from the car park. The drop must be only 2-3 feet...but there was a little kurb on the edge. I hopped my front wheel over, going at quite some speed, then while my front wheel was over the playground surface my rear wheel clipped the kurb and slammed the front of the bike down. The mahoosive marketing tool didnt come to my rescue. it didnt compress because of the angle i landed at. Now i have a buggered wrist, and various huge cuts on my knees and elbows. :oops: :oops:

Could be worse. When I was about 10 (long before you were born, in a mythical lost era known as "The Eighties"...) I went over the bars on my BMX (riding down some steps) and landed face first on the corner of a wall. Stitches in my lip and gum, with no anaesthetic. Didn't enjoy that much, not a good day.

Fuck... the impact must have been bad enough! Then to get stitches there...

But thats understandable when your 10, when your 16 it just makes you look like a bellend! LOL.

My wrists is already better Voltarol seemed to have worked its magic in one day. I had work which was packaging boxes and stuff like that, so that helped too i guess.

gt-arrowhead

Kowalski675 wrote:

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

I dont quite understand or know what damping is. :oops:

Suspension is a dark art, but, put in its simplest terms, the job of suspension (on any vehicle) is to absorb bumps (not to mention forces from acceleration, braking, cornering, camber thrust etc) and keep the wheels in contact with the ground, isolating the movement of the wheels from the chassis, so that (in an ideal world) the chassis (and it's driver/rider) remains level, while the wheels do all the moving up and down. Damping is called damping because it damps (controls and slows down) the movement of the vehicle's wheels. In simplest terms it's split into compression damping and rebound damping. Compression damping controls the compression stroke (the wheel moving upwards) and is itself split into low and high speed compression damping. These terms have nothing to do with how fast the vehicle is travelling - low speed compression damping controls how the wheel tracks over undulations, and how the suspension squats under acceleration, while high speed compression damping controls the movement of the wheel when it hits a bump. Rebound damping controls the rebound stroke - how the suspension returns after being compressed. Without damping (be it by oil or air) your suspension would behave like the aforementioned pogo stick - bouncing around like Zebedee on speed.

Wow! Thanks alot for that detailed explanation, i appreciate you taking your time to tell me all of that It does make alot more sense now.

I probably think the marketing tool fork is a decent bit of kit for offorad since i havent been on a bike with a proper suspension to know the difference.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

fark... the impact must have been bad enough! Then to get stitches there...

But thats understandable when your 10, when your 16 it just makes you look like a bellend! LOL.

It didn't exactly make me look cool at 10 either, lol. There was blood everywhere, by the time I got to A&E I'd turned a white towel completely red, lol. The stitching hurt like hell, not an experience I'd recommend. The scar's faded a lot since, but I never go clean shaven.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

Wow! Thanks alot for that detailed explanation, i appreciate you taking your time to tell me all of that It does make alot more sense now.

I probably think the marketing tool fork is a decent bit of kit for offorad since i havent been on a bike with a proper suspension to know the difference.

No worries. I haven't ridden an MTB with decent suspension either (well, not properly, had a quick play round the block on a Ghost 5900 and a Whyte T129S recently, but not off road). My Carrera just has a very basic Suntour XCR fork, but it's good enough for my skills (i.e. none). I do have this rather lovely £800 piece of made to order bespoke German loveliness though (the dial at the bottom is the rebound adjuster, the screws at the top are the high & low speed compression adjusters):

gt-arrowhead

£800 only on the rear shock!?! Why is it that expensive? Definitely looks lovely, and must be lovely for that price. So im guessing you can get the setup bang on with all of those dials and adjustments.

A Suntour XCR would be like a fork made of solid gold for me.

I have no skill either, only just started obviously. And theres nothing truly challenging to ride locally as i live in London.

I forgot about the scars too. Must be annoying as hell. Ive got a scar about an inch long on the side of my head. It happened on the VERY VERY VERY last day of primary school, i was playing football and someone ran across the playground and somehow collided with me and his teeth cut into the side of my head. There was a huge piece of skin dangling from the side of my head. The amount of blood gushing out of it was unbelievable. Now every time i get a haircut you can see the scar for about 2 weeks. :evil: The hair doesnt grow back there obviously cause my skin was cut and the hair cells died. The pain for a week or so later was unbearable.

Kowalski675

GT-Arrowhead wrote:

£800 only on the rear shock!?! Why is it that expensive?

Partly 'cos it's a top of the range, very high spec bespoke hand built unit, rather than mass produced, poor quality OE equipment (like the difference between a suit from the high street, and one from Saville Row), partly just 'cos everything for bikes is bum rapingly expensive. Luckily I bought it at trade cost price (£400) through my job.

Definitely looks lovely, and must be lovely for that price. So im guessing you can get the setup bang on with all of those dials and adjustments.

That's the idea. They're built specifically for each individual's weight, type of riding etc, and the adjusters have a far greater effect on the damping than on mass produced OE suspension, but that also means there's more possibilities to get it wrong. I'll be enlisting the help of a suspension expert soon for a setup session.

A Suntour XCR would be like a fork made of solid gold for me.

I don't think a solid gold fork would be very good - it'd be very heavy and rather bendy, lol.

I have no skill either, only just started obviously. And theres nothing truly challenging to ride locally as i live in London.

Just a beginner here too. Plenty of challenging off road riding not too far away from here though, and it's damn hilly, lol.

I forgot about the scars too. Must be annoying as hell.

It used to bother me when I was young (it was the main reason I first grew a goatee, and I've worn facial hair of one kind or another ever since), but it's faded a lot over the years, and barely noticeable now, 30 years later. I never even notice it, and seems other people don't either. The most annoying thing is that, if I'd gone to Leeds A&E, rather than Bradford then I would've had an anaesthetic and much smaller, neater stitching from a cosmetic surgeon, rather than a quick bodge job from a doctor who couldn't be bothered, and would've had virtually no scar at all.