Funeral security
Comments
-
thegreatdivide wrote:Go Glenda! Because you're completely right. And I'm amazed to say...go Bercow! For putting that pompous Tory pr1ck in his place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8
sickening. jackson is a joke an only in place cos of the right on 'champagne socialists' who dont have to suffer from the problems their poilcies cause...why do they all send their kids to public school???.
why would you be amazed to say right on bercow. hes a cretin. he would have been expelled by the tories had the leadership had any bollox long ago. he is just a stooge put up by his disgusting carthorse wife.
why the hatred of them. what is it you disagree with in conservatism? self determination? free enterprise? capitalism? free market? tough on crime and punishment? tough on those in soceity who dont want to do things for themsleves?0 -
it strikes me that lot of those who 'hate' thatcher, are too young to remember her, or be directly affected by anything she actually did, are are simply doing it to be fashionable and look right on with their student chums.
even though human decency dictates that we should respect the dead and not take joy in the death of a senile old bat!0 -
ddraver wrote:thegreatdivide wrote:Go Glenda! Because you're completely right. And I'm amazed to say...go Bercow! For putting that pompous Tory pr1ck in his place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8
Can you give me a summary? Everything on this camp is blocked...
The Tories expected today's Commons debate to be a a big Thatcher suck-up/sob fest but Jackson let rip for a good 8 minutes. Jowly Tory MP Tony Baldry appeals to the speaker that this is not the place for such words and is politely told to do one by Bercow. Excellent stuff.0 -
the playing mantis wrote:it strikes me that lot of those who 'hate' thatcher, are too young to remember her, or be directly affected by anything she actually did, are are simply doing it to be fashionable and look right on with their student chums.
even though human decency dictates that we should respect the dead and not take joy in the death of a senile old bat!
Caught part of a debate on radio 2 at lunchtime. Male calling in was saying why he had celebrated thatchers death with a party. The interviewer asked him how old he was. 26 was the reply! She then asked him how old he was when she left power and what his memories of her were! He blustered that he was still impacted by her policies today which was why he celebrated. He blamed her for his inability or difficulty in getting a job today!0 -
CambsNewbie wrote:the playing mantis wrote:it strikes me that lot of those who 'hate' thatcher, are too young to remember her, or be directly affected by anything she actually did, are are simply doing it to be fashionable and look right on with their student chums.
even though human decency dictates that we should respect the dead and not take joy in the death of a senile old bat!
Caught part of a debate on radio 2 at lunchtime. Male calling in was saying why he had celebrated thatchers death with a party. The interviewer asked him how old he was. 26 was the reply! She then asked him how old he was when she left power and what his memories of her were! He blustered that he was still impacted by her policies today which was why he celebrated. He blamed her for his inability or difficulty in getting a job today!
amazing, if we go down that route anything can be blamed on anything. its lloyd georges fault i cant a job, oh no disraili, or is it lord palmerstin, or pitt the elder....
if thatcher didnt do certain things it ould be argued we would be talking russian, living in a communist utopia by now, or still be the sick man of europe with nationalused dinosaur industries uncompeteiveness being paid for by the our taxes (the irony of rail privatisation isnt lost on me)0 -
It's a little known fact that she was also responsible for decimating the tin mining industry in Cornwall...0
-
... And global warming0
-
the playing mantis wrote:
if thatcher didnt do certain things it ould be argued we would be talking russian, living in a communist utopia by now, or still be the sick man of europe with nationalused dinosaur industries uncompeteiveness being paid for by the our taxes (the irony of rail privatisation isnt lost on me)
You are wasting your time Mantis. Some people on here would never give her credit for anything. Her policy in supporting Reagan's tough stance against the USSR was vindicated with the collapse of the Berlin wall and the break up of the Soviet Union. Even now, with the benefit of being able to look back at the way events unfolded, the politicians on the left, who were directly opposed, cannot bring themselves to admit they were deluded.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:the playing mantis wrote:
if thatcher didnt do certain things it ould be argued we would be talking russian, living in a communist utopia by now, or still be the sick man of europe with nationalused dinosaur industries uncompeteiveness being paid for by the our taxes (the irony of rail privatisation isnt lost on me)
You are wasting your time Mantis. Some people on here would never give her credit for anything. Her policy in supporting Reagan's tough stance against the USSR was vindicated with the collapse of the Berlin wall and the break up of the Soviet Union. Even now, with the benefit of being able to look back at the way events unfolded, the politicians on the left, who were directly opposed, cannot bring themselves to admit they were deluded.
Now thats not true and you know it - I give her credit for having a sense of rhythm, did she not after all dance of the graves of 30,000+ victims of general augusto pinochet; I give her credit for raising a fine upstanding daughter and a son any advocate of fairness, justice and compassion would be proud of.
hahah talking russian by now...gordon bennet.
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Quite amusing to see people who froth at the mouth like rabid dogs at the mere mention of Blair or Brown get so offended when Thatcher is criticised. How could anyone expect a House of Commons debate not to raise issues both pro and con the Iron Lady?0
-
Ballysmate wrote:the playing mantis wrote:
if thatcher didnt do certain things it ould be argued we would be talking russian, living in a communist utopia by now, or still be the sick man of europe with nationalused dinosaur industries uncompeteiveness being paid for by the our taxes (the irony of rail privatisation isnt lost on me)
You are wasting your time Mantis. Some people on here would never give her credit for anything. Her policy in supporting Reagan's tough stance against the USSR was vindicated with the collapse of the Berlin wall and the break up of the Soviet Union. Even now, with the benefit of being able to look back at the way events unfolded, the politicians on the left, who were directly opposed, cannot bring themselves to admit they were deluded.
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.0 -
She enabled a lot of people to go forth and make the best of themself.
People will suggest that she made the rich richer and the poor poorer as they do with all governments they disagree with but rich generally get rich through working.
She openly despised people unwilling to work whilst applauding those who wanted to work.
She was an advocate of work schemes and I myself came through the YTS system which gave me a great start in life.
Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
People avoiding tax should be fined accordingly and corporates should be made to pay tax on ALL profits made within the UK.
With the above we would no longer have to worry about looking after our pensioners who have paid into the pot all of their lives. We could have a world leading health service and pay police, medical and teachers a salary they can have a decent life on.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:She enabled a lot of people to go forth and make the best of themself.
People will suggest that she made the rich richer and the poor poorer as they do with all governments they disagree with but rich generally get rich through working.
She openly despised people unwilling to work whilst applauding those who wanted to work.
She was an advocate of work schemes and I myself came through the YTS system which gave me a great start in life.
Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
People avoiding tax should be fined accordingly and corporates should be made to pay tax on ALL profits made within the UK.
With the above we would no longer have to worry about looking after our pensioners who have paid into the pot all of their lives. We could have a world leading health service and pay police, medical and teachers a salary they can have a decent life on.
The words 'naive' and 'fascist' come to mind...0 -
EKIMIKE wrote:VTech wrote:She enabled a lot of people to go forth and make the best of themself.
People will suggest that she made the rich richer and the poor poorer as they do with all governments they disagree with but rich generally get rich through working.
She openly despised people unwilling to work whilst applauding those who wanted to work.
She was an advocate of work schemes and I myself came through the YTS system which gave me a great start in life.
Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
People avoiding tax should be fined accordingly and corporates should be made to pay tax on ALL profits made within the UK.
With the above we would no longer have to worry about looking after our pensioners who have paid into the pot all of their lives. We could have a world leading health service and pay police, medical and teachers a salary they can have a decent life on.
The words 'naive' and 'fascist' come to mind...
I won't hold that against you though.
I would be happy in the knowledge that you make the best of yourself.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:She enabled a lot of people to go forth and make the best of themself.
People will suggest that she made the rich richer and the poor poorer as they do with all governments they disagree with but rich generally get rich through working.
She openly despised people unwilling to work whilst applauding those who wanted to work.
She was an advocate of work schemes and I myself came through the YTS system which gave me a great start in life.
Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
People avoiding tax should be fined accordingly and corporates should be made to pay tax on ALL profits made within the UK.
With the above we would no longer have to worry about looking after our pensioners who have paid into the pot all of their lives. We could have a world leading health service and pay police, medical and teachers a salary they can have a decent life on.
Thats a terrifying view of humanity. Basic food rations for your fellow man? - your brothers, your sisters, the infirm, the elderly, the dispossessed, the troubled, the bereaved - for what Vtech, to justify your standard of living. Thats a truly shocking insight into the workings of your soul.
Nobody should live at the mercy of a reality built on anothers greed. You are so connected with
the physical events that comprise your life that its clear you can't distinguish between the horror of your thoughts and the horrors they create.
But we don't live a wholly physical life - the abstracts of fairness, compassion and sacrifice also matter. Our lives - your life rails against limitation - so why impose one on your own thoughts - why seek to impose a truly horrific limitation on someones life.
If you do not like your experiences, if you dont , then change the nature of your thoughts and your expectations. Don't expect others to bear a burden for your lifestyle choices. Basic food rations for your fellow man?
The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
the playing mantis wrote:why the hatred of them. what is it you disagree with in conservatism? self determination? free enterprise? capitalism? free market? tough on crime and punishment? tough on those in soceity who dont want to do things for themsleves?
Perhaps it's the snobbery and condescension that tends to go with these views? It's a shame because all the things you have listed are of arguable merit.
I think people usually display less of a hate of conservative ideals, more a hate of conservative culture which is (arguably) only incidental.0 -
thegreatdivide wrote:Your boasting of personal wealth, the Royal Family and Tories. Excellent. Do you read the Daily Mail too? Please say you do!
It must be a rare gift you have to be able to judge someone from the paper they read.
I read the Mail, I also read the Telegraph, The Sun and also the Daily Mirror.
I also have logged on to read The Scotsman on occasions.
I try to get a broad spectrum of views and try to draw my own conclusions.
I don't necessarily believe all I read.
scotsman.com/news/travellers-in-a-spin-over-currency-1-22083850 -
the playing mantis wrote:why the hatred of them. what is it you disagree with in conservatism? self determination? free enterprise? capitalism? free market? tough on crime and punishment? tough on those in soceity who dont want to do things for themsleves?
I do have a problem with the Tory party (not ordinary people who support conservative policy) - let's take a couple of issues which I know a bit about as examples.
Education - under Gove's free schools/academy programme (admittedly started by Labour), it is now possible for schools to hire teachers with no training whatsoever. It is also possible for them to serve up any old crap in the canteens (just as it was when I was at school in the 90s). It is also possible for them to sell off the playing fields to developers (again, something for which both parties are to blame). With private companies sniffing round the education sector, my big fear is that we'll simply see them move in, slash costs and take massive profits while delivering substandard education. How is it possible, when we are trying to compete in the modern world, for the Education Secretary to remove the need for trained teachers? Still, doesn't matter, as long as Tory dogma is upheld, then we the taxpayers can chuck money at another gravy train for companies that one a slice of the pie.
Housing - again, I don't absolve Labour of blame for this at all, BUT the roots of the housing crisis were in the 1980s and the Tories and Labour supported the same policies with regards to disastrous lending. The consequences are that we have some of the most expensive housing relative to wages anywhere in the developed world. When my wife and I moved back to England in 2010, we had about £25k saved up for a deposit, which isn't enough to get a mortgage. Since then we have spent about £17k on rent, and by the time our contract is up next summer, that'll have gone up to £25k. Because of this we have been unable to put any more money towards a deposit. If house prices weren't so over-inflated, we could easily have got a place of our own, but instead we're having to hand over £25k to landlords for crappy accommodation. We're hard-working people and if we lived on the continent we wouldn't be in this predicament now. We're pinning our hopes on the housing market crashing and properties becoming affordable again. If we don't, we're going to take our skills and our hard work and put them to use in another country, one in which ordinary working people aren't f**ked over just because they were born a bit too late to get on the housing ladder. And if Scotland did go independent and England were faced with eternal Tory government, I'd pack my bags that very evening because I don't think they give a toss about people like us and are more interested in keeping the housing market artificially high for the benefit of their rich mates.
I'm sure that there are others more knowledgeable than me on other government policy areas who could provide critiques of Tory (and Labour) failings but I'm going to leave it at that.0 -
VTech wrote:I won't hold that against you though.
I would be happy in the knowledge that you make the best of yourself.
Huh?
Are you trying to make some kind of abstract point? Or are you just getting all unnecessarily worried about me (again)?0 -
the playing mantis wrote:MisterMuncher wrote:the playing mantis wrote:why do people hate tories? is it cos they dont beleive in something for nothing?
Oh, they do. So long as the people getting something for nothing are the banks, the city and BAE bloody Systems, the Tories are all for something for nothing.
absolute bollox
Well, that's a devastatingly eloquent and intricately constructed argument right there.
Thatcher's "big bang" of deregulation was just a bit of a giggle, wasn't it? Certainly not something we've come to regret time and time again when bankers and broker's latest fantasy instruments go tits up, and they stand with the hand out. And don't give me the line that they bring in business or help the nation, because they've managed to avoid as much tax as they possibly can all along the way.
It's a central doctrine of Thatcherism that there's no function of government that isn't better executed by private interests, who will also do it cheaper and make a profit into the bargain. Sounds a lot like "something for nothing" to me.0 -
johnfinch wrote:
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.
I do not have the benefit of having lived in the former Eastern Bloc countries, but yes, I accept that the regimes that filled the void are still oppressive to varying degrees. The peoples of these countries that stood up to the USSR deserve admiration.
The Hungarian and Czech uprisings were brutally crushed. It took another 10 years after The Polish Solidarity movement started for the break up of the USSR to materialise. Although the Soviet Empire was bound to crumble, all Empires fall eventually, I still think that pressure from the west hastened its demise.0 -
VTech wrote:Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
I despair at anyone callous enough to think this is fair enough. But for a laugh, let's dig a little deeper.
How are we defining "unwilling to work" objectively? I mean, if you'd like this to be a government policy, I presume you've thought about the implementation a tiny little bit.
If they've only got "basic food rations", how do they pay for utilities? Transport? Clothing? The things you need to GET A JOB?
How would you work around the patent problems with self-interested corruption? Have you some magic bullet that would keep employers from ensuring those they don't agree with ideologically stay unemployed and disenfranchised?0 -
Ballysmate wrote:johnfinch wrote:
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.
I do not have the benefit of having lived in the former Eastern Bloc countries, but yes, I accept that the regimes that filled the void are still oppressive to varying degrees. The peoples of these countries that stood up to the USSR deserve admiration.
The Hungarian and Czech uprisings were brutally crushed. It took another 10 years after The Polish Solidarity movement started for the break up of the USSR to materialise. Although the Soviet Empire was bound to crumble, all Empires fall eventually, I still think that pressure from the west hastened its demise.
If you can - check out Tom Stoppards play 'Rock and Roll' - makes you see all societal change from a different angle.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:johnfinch wrote:
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.
I do not have the benefit of having lived in the former Eastern Bloc countries, but yes, I accept that the regimes that filled the void are still oppressive to varying degrees. The peoples of these countries that stood up to the USSR deserve admiration.
The Hungarian and Czech uprisings were brutally crushed. It took another 10 years after The Polish Solidarity movement started for the break up of the USSR to materialise. Although the Soviet Empire was bound to crumble, all Empires fall eventually, I still think that pressure from the west hastened its demise.
It's notable that these uprisings against Soviet control had little or nothing to do with the West, or the standard rhetoric of people crushed by socialism wanting a bit of that lovely capitalism. Overwhelmingly, the popular movements were about removing the corrupt governments in place, but retaining the overall structure of nationalised industry and socialism. Solidarity was a Trade Union. The Hungarian Revolution wanted reform communism under Imre Nagy. The Prague Spring was similarly motivated by a desire for more liberalised conditions, but crucially still within a socialist paradigm.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:johnfinch wrote:
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.
I do not have the benefit of having lived in the former Eastern Bloc countries, but yes, I accept that the regimes that filled the void are still oppressive to varying degrees. The peoples of these countries that stood up to the USSR deserve admiration.
The Hungarian and Czech uprisings were brutally crushed. It took another 10 years after The Polish Solidarity movement started for the break up of the USSR to materialise. Although the Soviet Empire was bound to crumble, all Empires fall eventually, I still think that pressure from the west hastened its demise.
It's not so much the governments that people resent (they do, of course prefer democracy to oppression), it's their employers they often hate. In principle, workers still have rights, but in practice they can't afford legal representation so they have none. When I was in Hungary, colleagues of mine could go months without being paid, while the school owner drove around in a BMW 7 series (new one every two years). This happened even just before Christmas. If it weren't for me threatening him, my wife and I would have lost out on a couple of thousand pounds of wages.
Similarly when I was in Slovakia, one of the other employers in our building wouldn't pay his single employee for months on end, even though she was in remission for cancer.
1989-1991 brought a very positive change and an extremely negative one. When I walk around the graveyard in which my wife's parents are buried, you can see that from about 1992 onwards there are loads of people who died in their late 40s-early 50s. They had just been completely abandoned by society and died of poverty. Fortunately I never went even further East than Slovakia and Hungary, because according to some of my friends from Romania, Bulgaria and Ukraine the situation is absolutely appalling out there - in the worst cases whole towns are just run by the Mafia.0 -
MisterMuncher wrote:Ballysmate wrote:johnfinch wrote:
Hungarian Uprising 1956
Prague Spring 1968
Polish Solidarity Movement 1980 onwards
Stagnation of the Eastern bloc economies 1972 onwards.
Afghanistan War started 1979 (following the revolution in 1978)
The USSR was doomed way before Thatcher took office and she had virtually no discernible impact on the history of these countries. I'm willing to give credit where it's due - so here's to all the people in Eastern Europe who had the courage to stand up to their regimes. BTW, I've lived in some of these countries and many of the people there just view it as a change from one type of misery to another.
I do not have the benefit of having lived in the former Eastern Bloc countries, but yes, I accept that the regimes that filled the void are still oppressive to varying degrees. The peoples of these countries that stood up to the USSR deserve admiration.
The Hungarian and Czech uprisings were brutally crushed. It took another 10 years after The Polish Solidarity movement started for the break up of the USSR to materialise. Although the Soviet Empire was bound to crumble, all Empires fall eventually, I still think that pressure from the west hastened its demise.
It's notable that these uprisings against Soviet control had little or nothing to do with the West, or the standard rhetoric of people crushed by socialism wanting a bit of that lovely capitalism. Overwhelmingly, the popular movements were about removing the corrupt governments in place, but retaining the overall structure of nationalised industry and socialism. Solidarity was a Trade Union. The Hungarian Revolution wanted reform communism under Imre Nagy. The Prague Spring was similarly motivated by a desire for more liberalised conditions, but crucially still within a socialist paradigm.
The Hungarian Revolution was notable for the fact that in many Hungarian cities, the workers took control of just about all of the factories and organised themselves into democratic workers' councils. If the Soviets hadn't invaded to destroy socialism :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: I wonder how the world would have looked today. The revolution might have succeeded or it might have ended up in a terrible failure... sorry, I'm off on another one of my "what if" fantasies again. Time for bed I think.0 -
johnfinch wrote:I do have a problem with the Tory party (not ordinary people who support conservative policy) - let's take a couple of issues which I know a bit about as examples.
Education - under Gove's free schools/academy programme (admittedly started by Labour), it is now possible for schools to hire teachers with no training whatsoever. It is also possible for them to serve up any old crap in the canteens (just as it was when I was at school in the 90s). It is also possible for them to sell off the playing fields to developers (again, something for which both parties are to blame). With private companies sniffing round the education sector, my big fear is that we'll simply see them move in, slash costs and take massive profits while delivering substandard education. How is it possible, when we are trying to compete in the modern world, for the Education Secretary to remove the need for trained teachers? Still, doesn't matter, as long as Tory dogma is upheld, then we the taxpayers can chuck money at another gravy train for companies that one a slice of the pie.
Housing - again, I don't absolve Labour of blame for this at all, BUT the roots of the housing crisis were in the 1980s and the Tories and Labour supported the same policies with regards to disastrous lending. The consequences are that we have some of the most expensive housing relative to wages anywhere in the developed world. When my wife and I moved back to England in 2010, we had about £25k saved up for a deposit, which isn't enough to get a mortgage. Since then we have spent about £17k on rent, and by the time our contract is up next summer, that'll have gone up to £25k. Because of this we have been unable to put any more money towards a deposit. If house prices weren't so over-inflated, we could easily have got a place of our own, but instead we're having to hand over £25k to landlords for crappy accommodation. We're hard-working people and if we lived on the continent we wouldn't be in this predicament now. We're pinning our hopes on the housing market crashing and properties becoming affordable again. If we don't, we're going to take our skills and our hard work and put them to use in another country, one in which ordinary working people aren't f**ked over just because they were born a bit too late to get on the housing ladder. And if Scotland did go independent and England were faced with eternal Tory government, I'd pack my bags that very evening because I don't think they give a toss about people like us and are more interested in keeping the housing market artificially high for the benefit of their rich mates.
You make good points. Not wishing to sound too much 'In my day....', I have to say that Education has been on the decline for years. Exam pass rates have increased year on year, suggesting that the kids have been getting more intelligent year on year, which is beyond belief. Not the kids fault at all, they just go through the system of the day.
I am a bit older than you and left school in the 70s. I know of a teacher (Physics) who is now teaching some stuff to A level students, that I studied at O level. I would rather the standard be raised, although the grades would fall. Do away with league tables, but raise the standard.
As regards housing, I feel for you. Like you, my kids have no chance of getting on the housing ladder. The problem was not helped by people being encouraged to see houses as investments and not homes. Both parties have been at fault. The last 15 years or so has seen a huge rise in the buy to let market, where people have seen an opportunity to make huge gains by constant remortgaging, as the equity in their property went up.
I am lucky to have bought years ago, but would be happy to see the arse drop out of the housing market so that people could afford to buy a decent place to live.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:
You make good points. Not wishing to sound too much 'In my day....', I have to say that Education has been on the decline for years. Exam pass rates have increased year on year, suggesting that the kids have been getting more intelligent year on year, which is beyond belief. Not the kids fault at all, they just go through the system of the day.
I am a bit older than you and left school in the 70s. I know of a teacher (Physics) who is now teaching some stuff to A level students, that I studied at O level. I would rather the standard be raised, although the grades would fall. Do away with league tables, but raise the standard.
Teaching of the basics has definitely declined. Teachers are forced into using the synthetic phonics method which is basically no good, although maybe the rise of the Internet, texting etc. is also leading to kids today being unable to spell. Last year, when I was working as an English tutor I was in a year 8 geography class and most of the (Kentish) kids were unable to find Kent on a map. I was totally shocked, but they couldn't understand why I would think that such knowledge is important.
In terms of secondary school teaching, I would suggest that it isn't that the education is necessarily worse, but it has changed completely to a broader curriculum. When my grandparents were at grammar school they studied about 6 or 7 subjects for their leaving certificate at the age of 16. When my parents went to grammar school they studied 8 subjects at O-level. When my brother and I went, we studied 10 GCSEs and these days a grammar school pupil would often be expected to study about 13 subjects to GCSE level, 5 at AS level and then 4 at A level. Quite simply we have swapped depth for breadth. I personally think that going back to studying 8-10 subjects at GCSE and then 3 subjects at A level would be a better system, but I suppose it really all depends on what you want out of your education system. The modular exam system has also been a complete mess. The only reform of Gove's that I would applaud is the decision to go back to exams at the end of the course, rather than once every few months.Ballysmate wrote:As regards housing, I feel for you. Like you, my kids have no chance of getting on the housing ladder. The problem was not helped by people being encouraged to see houses as investments and not homes. Both parties have been at fault. The last 15 years or so has seen a huge rise in the buy to let market, where people have seen an opportunity to make huge gains by constant remortgaging, as the equity in their property went up.
I am lucky to have bought years ago, but would be happy to see the ars* drop out of the housing market so that people could afford to buy a decent place to live.
How old are they? Are they living at home? If they stick it out a few more years they might just get lucky. It's funny, but I would imagine that most supporters of all the major parties recognise what a mess the situation has become, but the politicians will barely even recognise the issue publicly.0 -
Ballysmate wrote:You make good points. Not wishing to sound too much 'In my day....', I have to say that Education has been on the decline for years.
IQ has been going up since the 1930s (people are getting smarter) and education standards have improved too. Crime has fallen dramatically over the past 20 years now as well, and we're healthier (although fatter). We're remain very bad at accepting good news, though.0 -
MisterMuncher wrote:VTech wrote:Having said that, no matter what policies are in place, you still need the people to want to make better of themself.
Anyone unwilling to work shouldn't get a vote or anything more than basic food rations.
I despair at anyone callous enough to think this is fair enough. But for a laugh, let's dig a little deeper.
How are we defining "unwilling to work" objectively? I mean, if you'd like this to be a government policy, I presume you've thought about the implementation a tiny little bit.
If they've only got "basic food rations", how do they pay for utilities? Transport? Clothing? The things you need to GET A JOB?
How would you work around the patent problems with self-interested corruption? Have you some magic bullet that would keep employers from ensuring those they don't agree with ideologically stay unemployed and disenfranchised?
You missed the point of my post entirely.
I don't think there would ever be a point where we could police such actions, my post was more ideological rather than firm.
We can't deny that there are VAST amounts of people that don't want to work.
Maybe thy think a cleaning job is beneath them or a labour job is for others but to me, if there is a job available and I can do it and am not working I would do it.
The fact is that even with all of the complaints we see from people on benefits there are not dying in the thousands through lack of food. If the job centre offer a job to someone and they won't do it but are able they should go to rations.
I have a friend who works at the job centre and are now immune to helping as they see this no only daily, but hourly.
Like it or not, that's the way we live now.Living MY dream.0
