RVV- SPOILERS

DeadCalm

gpreeves wrote:

You're correct regarding drafting and the necessary power output, but what I believe Ekimike is saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that by the end of a classics race there is often nobody in the bunch of 25 capable of putting out the necessary power to reach the same/greater speed than the leader.

Although drafting will be of some assistance to those following in the bunch it is still necessary for one rider to be exposed to the wind who won't aerodynamically benefit from being part of the bunch. Theoretically working together should overcome this problem, but after 200km+/cobbles/climbs it is possible that nobody except the very strongest is capable of doing any more than soft pedalling. Also, with a mixture of teams present full co-operation within the bunch is very unlikely - have a look at game theory/prisoner's dilemma on Wiki for a decent academic explanation.

I totally agree that lack of cooperation will hamper the bunch in many cases and although we didn't get to see much of the chase, that was almost certainly the case yesterday. What caused my eyebrows to raise was the following part of Ekimike's comment:

EKIMIKE wrote:

Bah that's no good measure! If anything it just shows that Gatto is in great form. In a similar vein.it makes me laugh how almost every single day race people are baffled at how 25 blokes can't bring back one or two guys who have 30 seconds.

The answer is: this is not a stage race or a chipper. Everyone is on their limit. They may be riding in a group but it's mano-a-mano as far as their legs are concerned. So the guys with the best form will invariably be able to do things that defy conventional bicycle racing.

which doesn't make sense to me. It simply isn't 'mano-a-mano' unless you have a single rider dragging the bunch along as the 'rest' while drafting will allow the group as a whole to go faster than they would individually irrespective of whether or not their legs are 'shot'. In fact, even if a single cyclist is dragging the group along, the mere fact that he has a group behind will be a slight advantage in terms of power required to ride at a given speed.

EKIMIKE

DeadCalm wrote:

It simply isn't 'mano-a-mano' unless you have a single rider dragging the bunch along as the 'rest' while drafting will allow the group as a whole to go faster than they would individually irrespective of whether or not their legs are 'shot'. In fact, even if a single cyclist is dragging the group along, the mere fact that he has a group behind will be a slight advantage in terms of power required to ride at a given speed.

You're confusing theory with reality. Drafting is a benefit, even at the end of a monument. But the greater benefit is form - form like Fabu's and Sagan's and Roelandts'. That is the reality. Form trumps drafting when you're at kilometer 230 in Flanders.

The benefits of drafting and co-operation are only as great as the legs in the bunch. Drafting only preserves energy, it doesn't generate it.

It is mano-a-mano. It's the escapee(s) against any given rider on the front of the bunch at any given time.

frenchfighter

"When people are that strong you're just trying to hang on for dear life and you hope for the best that they don't get too far ahead. When you're watching television and you see what he's doing and he's solo, I know there's no one in the world that can catch him."
-Ochowicz

The comments at the press conference were good and I would recommend reading them:

Cancellara:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cancell ... ith-my-win
Roelandts:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-i ... last-climb
Sagan:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sagan-i ... last-climb

pat1cp

Did anyone else think Stijn Devolder looked as though he'd been dipped in a bath of gravy browning. He looked a very perculiar colour.

frenchfighter

Chavanel's comments:
http://www.lequipe.fr/Cyclisme-sur-rout ... uee/360781

Says the course is so difficult that no one wants to take risks before the last lap.

--

frenchfighter

frenchfighter wrote:

Is anyone else missing this guy with the change of route? They better change it back next year.

For starters it is good to see the guy is still there, albeit in a much less obvious position.

Also note how both bikes are Treks and he has the same glasses and helmet. The Leopard kit is 50k x better than the Radioshack kit.

greasedscotsman

frenchfighter wrote:

Also note how both bikes are Treks and he has the same glasses and helmet. The Leopard kit is 50k x better than the Radioshack kit.

Glasses are not the same. Radars in 2011 and Radarlocks this year.

Snorebens

EKIMIKE wrote:

Sky (in the classics) need to stop riding like they have top favourites and more like the underdogs they are. Stannard did it in MSR. Roelandts did it for Lotto today.

I mean, not one of them even tried to get in the breaks today. Pretty inept. Mind you, most of them are quite young and inexperienced.

What definitely doesn't make sense is that they said they would do just that -

"Hayman, Stannard and Boasson Hagen will be used specifically to split the race up prior to the final two laps of the Oude Kwaremont and the Paterberg. It's a tactic which could upset Omega Pharma-Quick-Step with three-time winner and defending champion Tom Boonen saying earlier in the afternoon that he believed that the race would come down to the final lap.

"I think for us it will be really good to have a hard race and not wait until the second time on the Kwaremont," Knaven explained. "At the end if you're the only team who's going to play this tactic then it's not going to work.

"If you have a strong team and I think QuickStep have a similar team to us and BMC as well, I think a few teams have the same idea and they'll chase each other down and then it could make the race - it could be hard.

Moomaloid

Can somebody tell me, without kicking off another argument, what Sagan actually did. I really can't be arse'd to trawl back through all the bleating.

RichN95.

Moomaloid wrote:

Can somebody tell me, without kicking off another argument, what Sagan actually did. I really can't be ars*'d to trawl back through all the bleating.

Moomaloid

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

danlikesbikes

pat1cp wrote:

Did anyone else think Stijn Devolder looked as though he'd been dipped in a bath of gravy browning. He looked a very perculiar colour.

Yes must have been some pretty odd embrocation product?

frenchfighter

Danlikesbikes wrote:

pat1cp wrote:

Did anyone else think Stijn Devolder looked as though he'd been dipped in a bath of gravy browning. He looked a very perculiar colour.

Yes must have been some pretty odd embrocation product?

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/photos/ ... ers/259389

frenchfighter

Edit, wrong thread

adr82

Rick Chasey wrote:

Yellow Peril wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

afx237vi wrote:

Best bit was Harmon saying Cance had literally killed Sagan on the Paterberg. I had to rewind to see if it was true.

It wasn't true.

Anyone got a clip of this?

It was the way in which Harmon said it. It makes you wonder who's under his patio

Still want a clip ;-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcIJUPj008 - Paterberg around 22:30. "Literally kill him" at 24:00, lol...

frenchfighter

adr82 wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rcIJUPj008 - Paterberg around 22:30. "Literally kill him" at 24:00, lol...

Thanks first time I heard it. Brilliant! And at 23.44 he says: "kill off the slovak"
When he says "stick the knife in" you can visualise him doing the action in the commentary box and Kelly looking over very worried.

danlikesbikes

I missed this first time around & watched the whole thing live. Did sound a little creepy watching the repeats though.

frenchfighter

frenchfighter

frenchfighter

Love this photo:

Le Commentateur

"1,450 watts up the Paterburg as he dropped Sagan" apparently.

dave milne

loved the over excited harmon commentary.

can remember going mental when evans attacked on the stage up to the tonale in the 2010 giro. he went past vino like he was standing still and shouted something like "he's just nailed a khazak to the floor!"

Rob Noall

Le Commentateur wrote:

"1,450 watts up the Paterburg as he dropped Sagan" apparently.

Now that might explain " ..... what happened to EBH .. and a few others!"

prawny

frenchfighter wrote:

Who's that fat knacker?

Roulsten was looking a bit Sunday league in appearance, champions league in performance.

Richmond Racer

Video of some guy impersonating Fabs is doing the rounds this morning. He's got him spot on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 52hxcyUSv8

frenchfighter

Look who went and won the Espoirs race:

1. Rick Zabel (ALL, Allemagne) les 169,7 km en 4h26'33" (38,2 km/h)
2. Dylan Groenewegen (PBS, Pays-Bas) m.t.
3. Magnus-Cort Nielsen (DAN, Danemark) m.t.
4. Sean De Bie (BEL, Belgique) m.t.
5. Kristian-Haugaard Jensen (DAN, Danemark) m.t.
6. Nicky Van Der Lijke (PBS, Pays-Bas) m.t.
7. Toms Skujins (LET, Lettonie) m.t.
8. Luka Pibernik (SLO, Slovénie) m.t.
9. Pierre-Henri Lecuisinier (FRA, France) m.t.
10. Alberto Bettiol (ITA, Italie) m.t.

frenchfighter

Crozza

Le Commentateur wrote:

"1,450 watts up the Paterburg as he dropped Sagan" apparently.

source for this? only he doesn't appear to have raced with an SRM