Replica Cervelo S5

Jon_1976

VTech wrote:

d87francis wrote:

I'm uber jealous. Perhaps we could let VTech borrow it? I'm guessing he doesn't own a bike as how would he have the time to wind up so many on bikeradar?

I only argue with you guys as its amusing for me, I do realise that some of you are so stupid you shouldn't have a child's bike yet alone be on a road but as I said, it's amusing.

Bit of a vicious circle, you moan about everyone slagging you off but then you say you enjoy arguing. Without sounding like too much of an old fart, you seem mega immature

VTech

Jon_1976 wrote:

VTech wrote:

d87francis wrote:

I'm uber jealous. Perhaps we could let VTech borrow it? I'm guessing he doesn't own a bike as how would he have the time to wind up so many on bikeradar?

I only argue with you guys as its amusing for me, I do realise that some of you are so stupid you shouldn't have a child's bike yet alone be on a road but as I said, it's amusing.

Bit of a vicious circle, you moan about everyone slagging you off but then you say you enjoy arguing. Without sounding like too much of an old fart, you seem mega immature

I'm not bothered about people moaning with me, they are idiots an as such I would be foolish to get upset with that.
You call me immature when I'm telling people of the possible dangers of buying counterfeit which again would be stupid for me to argue with as that's such a stupid comment in itself.

If you guys really want to buy counterfeit then go ahead but it's false economy. If you can't afford something genuine why pretend?
I see guys wearing a fake Rolex and it makes me laugh, who are they kidding ?
Your fooling yourself and that's a sin, a bloody foolish sin.

When I was a kid I wanted a Rolex, I saved for 5 years and at 23 I bought myself one and I've had it ever since. It's my most prized possession and I love it today like the day I bought it. It has no real monetary value but I would take that over any of my other possessions.

How would you feel about your counterfeit ?
You would always be thinking "damn, I wish I had the money to buy a real one"

Jon_1976

VTech wrote:

Jon_1976 wrote:

VTech wrote:

d87francis wrote:

I'm uber jealous. Perhaps we could let VTech borrow it? I'm guessing he doesn't own a bike as how would he have the time to wind up so many on bikeradar?

I only argue with you guys as its amusing for me, I do realise that some of you are so stupid you shouldn't have a child's bike yet alone be on a road but as I said, it's amusing.

Bit of a vicious circle, you moan about everyone slagging you off but then you say you enjoy arguing. Without sounding like too much of an old fart, you seem mega immature

I'm not bothered about people moaning with me, they are idiots an as such I would be foolish to get upset with that.
You call me immature when I'm telling people of the possible dangers of buying counterfeit which again would be stupid for me to argue with as that's such a stupid comment in itself.

If you guys really want to buy counterfeit then go ahead but it's false economy. If you can't afford something genuine why pretend?
I see guys wearing a fake Rolex and it makes me laugh, who are they kidding ?
Your fooling yourself and that's a sin, a bloody foolish sin.

When I was a kid I wanted a Rolex, I saved for 5 years and at 23 I bought myself one and I've had it ever since. It's my most prized possession and I love it today like the day I bought it. It has no real monetary value but I would take that over any of my other possessions.

How would you feel about your counterfeit ?
You would always be thinking "damn, I wish I had the money to buy a real one"

It wasn't your opinion on fake frames that gave me the impression of immaturity...but anyway, I agree with quite a lot you've said. Just didn't see the point in saying certain people were stupid and you enjoyed arguing, when they are clearly ribbing you just to get a reaction.

VTech

I'm well aware of that which is why I commented about my amusement which then led me to question your comment about me being immature.
If this guy really has purchased the fake I would be happy to get it tested and if its good he has been lucky and if it is bad ill buy him a new one, either way he would be in a better position than he is now.

declan1

DavidJB wrote:

I'll give you a ride report when it arrives tomorrow. I've also brought some genuine brand new 3t bars, seatposts and stems off of ebay for a bargain 1/4 of retail price! You can get a right bargain on ebay!

Genuine eh? Hmmm.

Strith

60% of the time they're genuine every time!

diy

I still dont get how you can test it. surely a proper test will result in damage?

Anonymous

Perfect! Then he gets a replacement from VTech.

I wanna buy one, duff it up, send it to the lab and await the new boxed one. Do China sell an SL-4?

VTech

diy wrote:

I still dont get how you can test it. surely a proper test will result in damage?

It can be tested for depth and cracks in the carbon, also for uneven resin thickness.
I'm not a carbon tech so I'm sure it is more complex than that but it's not difficult or time co aiming to check the quality of carbon for a carbon tech.

Coach H

VTech wrote:

My first treasure I bought myself was a 1970's Rolex. I saved for over a year ............quote]

VTech wrote:

When I was a kid I wanted a Rolex, I saved for 5 years ............../quote]

VTech, you are getting a bit of stick here but regardless of the main topic of the thread in order to avoid the trolls and have a bit of credibility when you state 'you are not reading my posts' you really have to remember what you are writing yourself. I know technically 5 years is over a year but a bit of consistency and reading what others have written may help.

Fakes are a blight on the worldwide ecconomy however I tend to agree with the majority on this thread that the fakes in question here are open mold designs built in a limited number of chinese factories and the only difference between the open mold ones and the fakes is some applied decals and perhaps paint. When open mold copies are made of Cervelo's, Pinnarello's, Spesh Venge's etc (to name 3 that are well known) are easily available, why would counterfitters do anything other than get these and sticker them up. I cannot access eBay at work but I have seen the same contact details for an eBay Fake as an open mold copy (I think it was Deng Fu but cannot be sure)

VTech

Both comments I made are genuine, at 17 I wanted a Rolex, I bought it at 23 years old, I came out of my YTS at 22 which have me a full year of wages of which together with the peanuts I had saved with the YTS mo ey was enough to buy my watch. There is no inconsistency there.

Also, I have never at any point said that this frame, or indeed any frame is unsafe. The reason I have never said that is that I do t k ow enough about where they have originated. My post was in general and I genuinly truly feel that anyone who does this are both crazy and fools.

Crazy for taking risks and fools for trying to make out they have things they don't.

DavidJB

Sorry to disappoint but I don't buy fake items and I defo wouldn't have a cervelo real or fake

DavidJB

edit: double post

diy

Coach H wrote:

Fakes are a blight on the worldwide ecconomy however I tend to agree with the majority on this thread that the fakes in question here are open mold designs built in a limited number of chinese factories and the only difference between the open mold ones and the fakes is some applied decals and perhaps paint. When open mold copies are made of Cervelo's, Pinnarello's, Spesh Venge's etc (to name 3 that are well known) are easily available, why would counterfitters do anything other than get these and sticker them up. I cannot access eBay at work but I have seen the same contact details for an eBay Fake as an open mold copy (I think it was Deng Fu but cannot be sure)

Personally I have no idea how a carbon bike frame is made up. but are you saying that the companies such as deng fu, which seem to have a reasonable reputation for producing own brand/unbranded kit, are manufacturing a frame using the same method, materials and techniques as Cervelo use? There are quite a few articles on the web, admittedly by those looking to protect their ipr and those looking to protect those looking to protect their ipr, suggesting that these copies don't end up having the same strength due to differences in manufacturing process.

In fact my own LBS went on and on about carbon weave, dollies and filler, when I said I was looking at a Ribble as well as the tarmac they were selling. I'm quite interested to know if the brands actually have some differences in their process or not.

MountainMonster

The majority of frames all come from the same factories, there is no doubt about that. It is just the very high end bikes that are by the company in question, and Cervelo is included in that. Their Project California development team builds the bikes themselves, but everything else is out sourced to Asia.

For that reason I would have no worries about buying a counterfeit frame, because the chances that they are just as good are about 95% since it all gets produced the same. Saying that, I still wouldn't buy counterfeit. I've been reading through most of this thread as it has been going on, and it is amazing that people assume the frames will be terrible and will fail on a downhill and kill you just because it is a counterfeit is amazing. I could imagine buying a Rolex is a different story due to the intricacies of the watches themselves, as well as the fact Rolex produces and builds their own watches, and i'm guessing how they do this is a well kept secret.

VTech

MountainMonster wrote:

The majority of frames all come from the same factories, there is no doubt about that. It is just the very high end bikes that are by the company in question, and Cervelo is included in that. Their Project California development team builds the bikes themselves, but everything else is out sourced to Asia.

For that reason I would have no worries about buying a counterfeit frame, because the chances that they are just as good are about 95% since it all gets produced the same. Saying that, I still wouldn't buy counterfeit. I've been reading through most of this thread as it has been going on, and it is amazing that people assume the frames will be terrible and will fail on a downhill and kill you just because it is a counterfeit is amazing. I could imagine buying a Rolex is a different story due to the intricacies of the watches themselves, as well as the fact Rolex produces and builds their own watches, and i'm guessing how they do this is a well kept secret.

You clearly haven't read what I've been saying at all !

I've never said the frame will break and kill you.

I have said that a company who copies a design but sells it as there own brand would be more inclined to make a better product than a company counterfeiting a product.
I also said that I wouldnt put my life in the hands of such a company as the risk is too great. I even stood by my statement offering to replace the frame if it were dangerous as I would rather do that than allow someone to risk their life.

As always on this forum people pick out the parts of a statement and argue against it. It's like being in the House of Commons.

MountainMonster

Your exact statement, even above, is that you as Cervelo "would be more inclined to make a better product than the comapny counterfeiting a product." This shows you have no faith in the knock-off frames, even though the will come from exactly the same factories and go through the same procedures as Cervelo's bikes.

I could understand if you were saying fake Rolex's or something, but these frames all come from the same place, so are of standard quality and strength when it leaves the factory.

imposter2.0

VTech wrote:

You clearly haven't read what I've been saying at all !

I've never said the frame will break and kill you.

VTech wrote:

You may be right, in fact you may be right at 99% of the time with your reference but imagine if you are the unlucky 1% who rides a bike at 30mph and it breaks in 2 !
Your idealistic view wont help you in intensive care.

hmmm

declan1

Look, if you're going to pick at somebody's statement(s) and try to show contradicting quotes, at least do it properly. Imposter - VTech never actually said it'll break in 2; he said 'Imagine' if it breaks in 2.

Here's a different way of looking at it:

Two Lamborghini Gallardos - one is genuine (£135,000) and the other is a chinese copy (£30,000).

Which one would you rather race around a track?

MountainMonster

Also, in reply to the quotes above, the same exact principle applies to Cervelos, Pinarellos and all the top brands. They can't get every single frame 100% perfect, and ride characteristics also effect how the frame will damage if it does. Would you then think, in that case, "fark, I shouldn't have bought that Cervelo?'

And to Declan, obviously people would rather the real one! But that is not affordable for most people, and if they want the experience of a race car, then the Chinese copy will do the job. We are all just discussing the integrity of these bikes, which come from the same factories as the "big boys" bikes, and saying it will fail it just silly!

VTech

How do we know ?
If you buy a copy frame (and let's get this straight, it is not, I repeat not counterfeit) from a company like far sports or carbon mods etc, you will have a direct link with the supplier. If you buy a counterfeit where did it come from ?
Many of you are saying it comes from the exact same factory but I've just got off the phone with Micheal Peters of Cervelo who assures me that only their frames are made within their process and plant build.

He may well be a liar but I doubt it. Unless of course you guys know something he doesn't ?

ooermissus

you phoned someone up at Cervelo because you're losing an argument on the internet?

bianchimoon

ooermissus wrote:

you phoned someone up at Cervelo because you're losing an argument on the internet?

just when you thought it couldn't get anymore bizarre eh

jscl

VTech wrote:

How do we know ?
If you buy a copy frame (and let's get this straight, it is not, I repeat not counterfeit) from a company like far sports or carbon mods etc, you will have a direct link with the supplier. If you buy a counterfeit where did it come from ?
Many of you are saying it comes from the exact same factory but I've just got off the phone with Micheal Peters of Cervelo who assures me that only their frames are made within their process and plant build.

He may well be a liar but I doubt it. Unless of course you guys know something he doesn't ?

A couple of issues there really - a counterfeit is only that "copy" frame with the stickers attached as someone has already said. If you asked those suppliers to paint it pinarello or cervelo, they do.

If you ask Pinarello, they'd say the same. People don't like the idea that Pinarello is now outsourcing to Asia, so Pinarello would rather have you believe that they're all still handmade in Treviso. When actually, less than 5% of Pinarello bikes are now made in Italy. I don't condone the counterfeiting but really, there are limited horror stories. In fact, knowing and being around real Pinarello bikes nearly every day, I'm seeing issue after issue with them and the build quality recently. Especially the bottom brackets, which keep cracking and the headsets which are useless as they come standard from Pinarello.

VTech

ooermissus wrote:

you phoned someone up at Cervelo because you're losing an argument on the internet?

I'm far from losing an argument with some nobs on an Internet forum.
Cervelo are testing today in the wind tunnel so a quick call downstairs to ask a question seemed like an easy way to resolve the statement made earlier that these frames are made at the same please and by the same people as the fakes as counterfeit.
After all, I could have proven you right. Only it didnt.

VTech

JSCL wrote:

VTech wrote:

How do we know ?
If you buy a copy frame (and let's get this straight, it is not, I repeat not counterfeit) from a company like far sports or carbon mods etc, you will have a direct link with the supplier. If you buy a counterfeit where did it come from ?
Many of you are saying it comes from the exact same factory but I've just got off the phone with Micheal Peters of Cervelo who assures me that only their frames are made within their process and plant build.

He may well be a liar but I doubt it. Unless of course you guys know something he doesn't ?

A couple of issues there really - a counterfeit is only that "copy" frame with the stickers attached as someone has already said. If you asked those suppliers to paint it pinarello or cervelo, they do.

If you ask Pinarello, they'd say the same. People don't like the idea that Pinarello is now outsourcing to Asia, so Pinarello would rather have you believe that they're all still handmade in Treviso. When actually, less than 5% of Pinarello bikes are now made in Italy. I don't condone the counterfeiting but really, there are limited horror stories. In fact, knowing and being around real Pinarello bikes nearly every day, I'm seeing issue after issue with them and the build quality recently. Especially the bottom brackets, which keep cracking and the headsets which are useless as they come standard from Pinarello.

You make some great points but I really havent agued against any of them, in fact ive agreed with them which is where I find this whole thread getting really weird.
I have also confirmed that items bought from these factories that you mention can be of great quality as I had my own wheels tested and they came out great.
My point isnt about wether there are good replicas out there or not, it is about a mindset where people justify counterfeit as coming from the same factory as originals and in the most, this is not the case.

Nike, Adidas, Louis Vitton, Chanel, Bells Whisky, Smirnoff Vodka, Louis 13th, Kettles, Toasters, Microwaves, TV's, Cameras, Phones etc etc etc, the list goes on.
What you guys are inadvertently doing is condoning and then even worse, justifying and promoting fake, counterfeit and clone items which is a very bad thing, not only as it is illegal but also as it is bloody dangerous and if I have to upset a few people here to make that point then im fine with that.

The arguments you guys have given of them coming from the same place and made by the same people holds no weight as none of you have given a single strip of evidence to back that up. I am fully aware that the company I got my wheels from are happy to copy designs but the frames they copy are NOT registered designs so again, no laws broken.

When I bought my wheels I had a trail, if anything was wrong I could go back to the manufacturer who are a fully registered, legal entity in China and would have a recourse of action. If the item was wrong I could reverse the payment on my credit card.

When you buy counterfeit how traceable is it ? where did it come from ? who made it ? is it made to standards ?

The answer is, you dont have any idea, you cant answer any of them. And if you try to reverse a card payment for a counterfeit item you will get nowhere with your bank !! in fact you risk prosecution as it is illegal to buy counterfeit within the EU and USA just as much as it is to sell it.

Now im sure some of you will still argue with me but the genuine readers of this thread think like me, that your nobs.

If you cant afford genuine, dont be angry, work harder, save more or set your targets to a more realistic level but buying fake is stupid.

Strith

diy wrote:

Coach H wrote:

Fakes are a blight on the worldwide ecconomy however I tend to agree with the majority on this thread that the fakes in question here are open mold designs built in a limited number of chinese factories and the only difference between the open mold ones and the fakes is some applied decals and perhaps paint. When open mold copies are made of Cervelo's, Pinnarello's, Spesh Venge's etc (to name 3 that are well known) are easily available, why would counterfitters do anything other than get these and sticker them up. I cannot access eBay at work but I have seen the same contact details for an eBay Fake as an open mold copy (I think it was Deng Fu but cannot be sure)

Personally I have no idea how a carbon bike frame is made up. but are you saying that the companies such as deng fu, which seem to have a reasonable reputation for producing own brand/unbranded kit, are manufacturing a frame using the same method, materials and techniques as Cervelo use? There are quite a few articles on the web, admittedly by those looking to protect their ipr and those looking to protect those looking to protect their ipr, suggesting that these copies don't end up having the same strength due to differences in manufacturing process.

I don't think hes saying they use the same methods/factories etc as cervelo, neither would I. I think CoachH is agreeing with myself in that these chinese manufcaturers FS/DF/HF etc are also the source of what Vtec terms counterfeit.

Farsport and the like are long known to be selling 'copy' frames and items. The problem here is that Vtec seems to think because Farsports don't paint and sticker up their copies then are doing no harm, thereby making him feel better about his purchases from a rip off merchant. At the same time he's still maintaining that people buying the counterfeiters are stupid and going to die, yet still can't quite grasp the concept that the 'counterfeit' and 'copy' frmaes are one and the same.

What people spend their money on is up to them, I don't care. But calling people stupid for buying fake stuff then buying from the same manufacturers is weak IMO.

VTech

Damn, pitty your ex teachers at school, I could imagine the therapy they needed after working with you for a few years.

What you have just wrote it the biggest crock ive read in the thread so far, you have made statements with no substance, and even after explaining countless times that in no way (others have also backed me up here in this forum) have I said that a counterfeit frame will kill anyone, you still cant get your head round that.

I was going to write another sentence here but whats the point, I pity you and at that point my amusement if over.

Strith

VTech wrote:

I'm far from losing an argument with some nobs on an Internet forum.
Cervelo are testing today in the wind tunnel so a quick call downstairs to ask a question seemed like an easy way to resolve the statement made earlier that these frames are made at the same please and by the same people as the fakes as counterfeit.

Why don't you pop down and ask what Mr cervelo thinks of the people like farsports selling 'copy' cervelos as you put it. No doubt he agrees with you that it's fine. No stickers, no probem, right?

MountainMonster

VTech wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

you phoned someone up at Cervelo because you're losing an argument on the internet?

I'm far from losing an argument with some nobs on an Internet forum.
Cervelo are testing today in the wind tunnel so a quick call downstairs to ask a question seemed like an easy way to resolve the statement made earlier that these frames are made at the same please and by the same people as the fakes as counterfeit.
After all, I could have proven you right. Only it didnt.

Since when do Cervelo do wind tunnel testing in the UK?

The main tunnels used by Cervélo are the San Diego Air & Space Technology Center Low Speed Wind Tunnel (LWST) and Kirsten Wind Tunnel at the University of Washington Aeronautical Laboratory (UWAL) which are closed circuit and permit full scale testing.

If you are going to make things up, at least do something that is not so easy to check. I watch the Project California video on Youtube a few weeks ago, and they only do their testing in the states.