Replica Cervelo S5
Comments
-
VTech wrote:amaferanga wrote:VTech wrote:I bought from a company selling wheels as there own brand and who have had them tested for purpose. The problem with people making fakes, no matter what country they are from is they will almost certainly have no testing for conformity so it's actually quite different from my purchase.
I have also had my wheels in the carbon shop for a day to make sure they are up to the job.
I'm not k coking people who do but fakes but when your life is at stake you have to put things into perspective.
You bought generic carbon rims.
Correct, but they were from a company wih a rep for making wheels, not faking well known brands. If you can't tell the difference then it's not for me to argue with you trying to make you understand as everyone else reading this thread understands.
Almost everyone else reading this thread appear to be morons with more money than sense who actually pay full price for a Cervelo!
You could buy a car for that.
Get a fucking grip0 -
styxd wrote:VTech wrote:amaferanga wrote:VTech wrote:I bought from a company selling wheels as there own brand and who have had them tested for purpose. The problem with people making fakes, no matter what country they are from is they will almost certainly have no testing for conformity so it's actually quite different from my purchase.
I have also had my wheels in the carbon shop for a day to make sure they are up to the job.
I'm not k coking people who do but fakes but when your life is at stake you have to put things into perspective.
You bought generic carbon rims.
Correct, but they were from a company wih a rep for making wheels, not faking well known brands. If you can't tell the difference then it's not for me to argue with you trying to make you understand as everyone else reading this thread understands.
Almost everyone else reading this thread appear to be morons with more money than sense who actually pay full price for a Cervelo!
You could buy a car for that.
Get a ******* grip
Or maybe they're just successful people who have a bit of spare cash and like to spend some of it on nice bikes :roll:0 -
That wasn't what I meant.
People have the right to pick and chose the brand they buy wether triban or cervelo but pickin fake is risking your life and that a moronic gamble and anyone who takes part in such is a fool.
I'm no tryin to offend, you only have one body, if you fell and smashed yourself to bits your in big trouble.
No genuine company sells fakes so why risk it.
There was a post yesterday about fake glasses, your Etter off buying bottom of the ladder originals than cheap fakes as the cheap glasses are still fully protective as required by law.
It's your gamble guys, don't shoot me for trying to protect anyone from these risks.
BTW, I personally wouldnt spend the money on a cervelo, I would rather use it to buy something else. At the same time is feel daft rising a fake even if it were safe.
Some people can afford these bikes and some can't but pretending is barmy. Your only fooling yourself.
My first treasure I bought myself was a 1970's Rolex. I saved for over a year and it is one of my most valued personal possessions and would never sell it. Would anyone hold such memories over a fake ?Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:Correct, but they were from a company wih a rep for making wheels, not faking well known brands. If you can't tell the difference then it's not for me to argue with you trying to make you understand as everyone else reading this thread understands.
You know where they were actually made then?
They were (probably) made somewhere in China. Just like the 'fake' Cervelo. Only difference is that one is badged up to look like a known brand and the other isn't. I can't see how whether or not something has a few decals on it to make it look like something it's not would make any difference to the quality control or your confidence in it.
I'm not sure I understand what it is you think I don't understand so please enlighten me.More problems but still living....0 -
amaferanga wrote:VTech wrote:Correct, but they were from a company wih a rep for making wheels, not faking well known brands. If you can't tell the difference then it's not for me to argue with you trying to make you understand as everyone else reading this thread understands.
You know where they were actually made then?
They were (probably) made somewhere in China. Just like the 'fake' Cervelo. Only difference is that one is badged up to look like a known brand and the other isn't. I can't see how whether or not something has a few decals on it to make it look like something it's not would make any difference to the quality control or your confidence in it.
I'm not sure I understand what it is you think I don't understand so please enlighten me.
I'm happy to play along with your games as I can't sleep, and yes, they must be games as no one could be so daft as to not realise.
A) forget where they are made, that's of no importance as good and bad can be made anywhere.
if a company, any company, can make good products try would never counterfeit but rather build there own brand as counterfeits are none sustainable in the long run but building a brand is.
C) if a company are willing to counterfeit they have no scruples, none whatsoever so wih that in mind, would you put your life in their hands which is what your suggesting people can do as to you they are the same product.
I didn't intend to have yet another argument here but come on, you can't seriously think anything I have written is wrong ?
And as I said earlier, I didn't trust my life on the hands of the company I bought mine from even though they do have a great reputation so I had them screened at work ad they came out good and now I ride on them.
I have 3 kids and a wife who need me to come home so risking life for a few quid isn't an option which would be the same for most here I would have thought.Living MY dream.0 -
Aren't you supposed to be out at Sepang on business? Looking at the timings of all your posts you haven't slept all night. Seems a bit silly before an important day ahead of you.0
-
I'm struggling with heat and I'm not important so often get time others don't.Living MY dream.0
-
You should get an "I am VTech" shirt to wear around grand prix's.0
-
That's a fake t-shirt!All lies and jest..still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest....0
-
Im not gonna jump on it and scoot at 25mph
On a serious note, I dont want anyone to be p!$$ed at me for what I wrote yesterday, It was in complete good faith, ive seen the damage fake kit can do and it really can end in tears.Living MY dream.0 -
styxd wrote:VTech wrote:amaferanga wrote:VTech wrote:I bought from a company selling wheels as there own brand and who have had them tested for purpose. The problem with people making fakes, no matter what country they are from is they will almost certainly have no testing for conformity so it's actually quite different from my purchase.
I have also had my wheels in the carbon shop for a day to make sure they are up to the job.
I'm not k coking people who do but fakes but when your life is at stake you have to put things into perspective.
You bought generic carbon rims.
Correct, but they were from a company wih a rep for making wheels, not faking well known brands. If you can't tell the difference then it's not for me to argue with you trying to make you understand as everyone else reading this thread understands.
Almost everyone else reading this thread appear to be morons with more money than sense who actually pay full price for a Cervelo!
You could buy a car for that.
Get a ******* grip
Don't agree with your comment. As the poster below yours has said if you have the money and can afford it then why not. None of the guys I cycle with think I am a rich snob just because I ride a Cervelo, most really like it and pass nice comments, some don't like the aero design but that's their choose. It doesn't matter to me what other people think. I love it, I know its real and that's all that matters to me. There are plenty of others bikes out there that cost more than Cervelos, take the Scott Foil range for example, some of those are nearly £10K!0 -
People aren't calling you guys snobs for the expensive bikes you ride, but for the disparaging comments you make towards those that can't afford such bikes but choose to purchase generic Chinese frames instead.0
-
d87francis wrote:People aren't calling you guys snobs for the expensive bikes you ride, but for the disparaging comments you make towards those that can't afford such bikes but choose to purchase generic Chinese frames instead.
No one here is moaning about buying Chinese frames, I have just purchased Chinese wheels, there is. Itching wrong with buying Chinese. A lot of people would agree that the best carbon comes from Asia.
It's the fact that someone is willing to buy counterfeit knowing that the item will almost certainly be of the lowest quality.Living MY dream.0 -
When you buy in to a brand, you are hopefully buying in to some design and testing experience. Yes some of it will be bling, marketing, sponsorship and margin etc. but you are spending money on brand X, or Y because they have built a reputation for their products and their customer care.
When you buy a non-branded design, you too are putting your faith in that company's ability to design and test something. So you have to do your research about the company. At least however, that is something you can do, because its not pretending to be something it isn't.
When you buy a fake, you can't do either, because you could stand two fakes next to each other and they could be completely different in construction and fitness for purpose. Its not like fashion, where the factories will over produce and then sell the surplus direct, or deconstruct the product to copy it. You are not taking your life in your hands when you buy some fake jeans.
When you buy some fake bike parts you have absolutely no idea if you are buying something that will fail. The stupidity comes from paying a "bargain" price and somehow convincing yourself that its as good as the genuine part.0 -
When you buy a brand you are buying into marketing. Loads of the "fake" stuff that comes out of china is the same stuff, just unlabeled. It's produced by people, many of whom have likely worked in the factories that produced the branded stuff, with the same moulds and same materials.0
-
d87francis wrote:When you buy a brand you are buying into marketing. Loads of the "fake" stuff that comes out of china is the same stuff, just unlabeled. It's produced by people, many of whom have likely worked in the factories that produced the branded stuff, with the same moulds and same materials.
Tell that to the woman who bought her kid a counterfeit iPod charger and woke up the following day to find her 11 year old son had passed away in the night from a shock by the faulty charger.
There are countless cases of this and the old adage of "they are made in the same places by the same people" doesn't wash.
I'm not knocking what your saying as you are factual in the majority, I do know many places who sell overstock back into the market instead of losing out on wastage but the problem is, how do you k ow for sure and when your putting your life on the line it's a dodgy risk.Living MY dream.0 -
The fact of the matter is there are thousands of these generic carbon frames out there on the roads and even an entire forum dedicated to them and there are no more reports of failures than there are of branded frame failures. If you take the time to read the across many threads across many forums then you will see it’s pretty well established that these fake/replica/whatever frames from the likes of dengfu et al are not going to kill you.
If you take issue with them being tarted up as fakes and infringing/devaluing the brand then that’s fine, don’t buy one, but telling people they are going to have accidents when you clearly haven’t looked into them is just nonsense. For the record I don’t have one of these frames and neither would I buy one.
And Vtec, Farsports who I belive you bought your wheels off are one of the main sellers of these copy frames, look on their website. Now that you’ve had your wheels certified by your carbon workshop, can we assume their frames are ok too?0 -
Trouble is, we don't really know that there is any difference at all between the generic Chinese frames and the fakes. It's pretty easy to see how a frame factory in China would decide that producing a mould to match a Pinarello will get a higher resale than a generic one. So from their perspective, why not and why assume it is any different?
Of course, the problem is whether any of the frames from that factory are up to scratch. They might be, they might not be. Really that's where the value of buying the variants with known quality control input comes in (eg the likes of Ribble, PX, DeRosa!). They provide a guarantee and a degree of confidence in quality. Without that I don't know how you can be sure that you are buying quality or not. My own minimal experience of Chinese cf (bottle cages) suggests a high degree of incompetence from at least one factory. Ugos first impressions of the wheels is that they are poor both in terms of construction and assembly. On that basis, I wouldn't want to save £100 over a Ribble frame by buying a generic Chinese frame.Faster than a tent.......0 -
Well as I said really, you look on velo build alone and there are only good reports on the quality of the frames from the likes of FS DF etc. No failures, no deaths, no squirrels stuck in forks, and I've looked hard to find anything suggesting they are dangerous, yet I find nothing other than anecdotal nonsense. That said, you're never going to be able to enjoy a bike if you're not confident it's safe to ride, so I can understand why some might not buy them. I just laugh when people start claiming how dangerous they are with no evidence.
As far as I'm aware the vast majority of these generic chinese frames are a copy of one thing or another too. Biggest problem for me would be the hassle dealing with a supplier in china. PX and the likes of ribble are just easier to deal with, especially if you do have a problem.0 -
Im not sure some of you are reading what I write.
I have no issue whatsoever with Chinese carbon bike makers, they offer some of the best frames and equipment available on the market today.
The issue is that companies that sell their own brand have to at least try and maintain standards in order to keep their business going.
Companies that openly sell counterfeit have no longevity as it is illegal and as such are more likely to cut corners and sell inferior products.
So, with that in mind ill do a quick summery.
Would I buy Chinese ? YES
Would I tell people to buy Chinese ? YES
Would I buy counterfeit ? NO
Would I tell people to buy counterfeit ? NO
Do I think people who buy counterfeit are amongst the most stupid people in the buying market ? YESLiving MY dream.0 -
Counterfeit = chinese + stickers. You are aware of this?
All your wheels are lacking is some stickers you could retrofit saying 'zipp' or 'enve' and they would be counterfeit.0 -
coriordan wrote:Counterfeit = chinese + stickers. You are aware of this?
All your wheels are lacking is some stickers you could retrofit saying 'zipp' or 'enve' and they would be counterfeit.
And there was stupid O'l me thinking it was "made in imitation of something genuine with the intent to deceive or defraud; forged"Living MY dream.0 -
Vtec we're all quite aware of what you are writing, I just don't think you understand the market for chinese frames and other bits.
Farsport who you bought your wheels off, are also supplying fake frames. Nearly all of the frames are copies of one thing or another. They may not have stickers and copy paointjobs but they are copies none the less. This is pretty much across the boards when you buy from these chinese suppliers.
You say you won't buy counterfeit, but whether you like it or not you have already bought wheels from a company who sells couterfeit goods. Making you, by your own admission dangerously close to being stupid...but not quite it seems.0 -
Ok - so you can buy a frame which is designed to look exactly like another frame (they all are in certain respects - pinarello, De rosa, specialised, trek, cervelo are the ones which spring to mind)
Without stickers = chinese
With stickers = counterfeit.
Now given the 2 frames come from the same shop and the option to add stickers is part of the ordering process, what do you honestly think the difference is?
The wheels are the same. What if someone bought the same pair of wheels as you, stuck some ENVE stickers on them, then resold them?
Same set of wheels - one's counterfeit, one's chinese.0 -
Strith wrote:Vtec we're all quite aware of what you are writing, I just don't think you understand the market for chinese frames and other bits.
Farsport who you bought your wheels off, are also supplying fake frames. Nearly all of the frames are copies of one thing or another. They may not have stickers and copy paointjobs but they are copies none the less. This is pretty much across the boards when you buy from these chinese suppliers.
You say you won't buy counterfeit, but whether you like it or not you have already bought wheels from a company who sells couterfeit goods. Making you, by your own admission dangerously close to being stupid...but not quite it seems.
If you can show me one piece of evidence where they are selling counterfeit ill gladly accept your point but I couldnt find one.
Copying design is something that happens daily and although not always right, it is a moral issue.
Im referring to counterfeit which is a totally different ball game and im not sure I am aware of any counterfeit operations by farsports.Living MY dream.0 -
coriordan wrote:Ok - so you can buy a frame which is designed to look exactly like another frame (they all are in certain respects - pinarello, De rosa, specialised, trek, cervelo are the ones which spring to mind)
Without stickers = chinese
With stickers = counterfeit.
Now given the 2 frames come from the same shop and the option to add stickers is part of the ordering process, what do you honestly think the difference is?
The wheels are the same. What if someone bought the same pair of wheels as you, stuck some ENVE stickers on them, then resold them?
Same set of wheels - one's counterfeit, one's chinese.
Thats fraud not counterfeit !
If someone makes an item with the sole purpose of selling it as something it is not then they have low moral fibre, they are also likely to cut down on design and quality and hence, put people in danger.
If someone copies a design but sells it as their own brand they also have low moral fibre but are less likely to put people in danger due to the fact they are selling the item as their own.
This is why I had my own wheels tested.
Its quite self explanatory really.Living MY dream.0 -
Counterfeit/copy/replica/similar design whats the real difference? You telling me there's a single person on earth who would buy this under the assumption it was an original Farsports design?
http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=6670 -
These people all have 0 moral fibre, just access to carbon fibre.0
-
Strith wrote:Counterfeit/copy/replica/similar design whats the real difference? You telling me there's a single person on earth who would buy this under the assumption it was an original Farsports design?
http://www.farsports.cn/ViewProduct.aspx?id=667
But your arguing against something im not talking about.
Farsports are selling a frame that is copied in design but is not counterfeit so although they are, lets call it cloning it doesnt mean they are reducing quality and in fact, as I have proven to myself, the quality is superb.
Companies who intentionally go out to deceive by counterfeit often cut corners, in fact I would guess in the majority this is the case, and as such the product has a much higher risk of failure and therefor is more likely to be dangerous.
Listen, its up to you if you want to buy counterfeit or condone the selling of counterfeit but for me its a define no go area.Living MY dream.0
