Tirreno-Adriatico 2013 *SPOILERS*

frenchfighter

My team did great work. They all helped me to be up there in the finale and fresher than everyone else

They all did great work today and when they are like that, my job becomes much easier

But me and the team have our style of racing that is probably very different to other teams

If we keep following a certain way of training and racing, it makes it a lot more controllable for us. The more you can control in a race then the more you can control the outcome. Cycling isn't always predictable but the more control you have over things, the easier it becomes

It's just continuing to work the way we worked in the last few years: training, measuring the training and going back and doing it again

-Froome

---

On a serious note, what if no one attacked or could attack, so everyone sat on Sky's train until they had used up their expensive super domestiques, shelling riders left right and centre. Then it came down to the last km or so and Sky's leader took off and only those climbers with sprinting legs could follow. Then Sky riders would somehow monster the hell out of everyone in the TTs.

Would you find that interesting?

Would you find it interesting if every single mountain stage in a stage race was like this?

I can see myself trending much more to enjoying the one day races and the flahutes then the stage races which is where my greatest enjoyment lay.

Richmond Racer

Squirrelpie wrote:

Richmond Racer wrote:

Squirrelpie wrote:

Contador had blown that's why he didn't work with Nibali. It only looked dangerous when Nibali went with Santambrogio. Froome showed he would have caught them anyway and hitched a ride if need be but they offered nothing when he rode past.
Its still early days for the tour protagonists, Froome is well ahead at this time.
Nibali is showing how he has improved since Oman and is on track for Giro.
The question is should Froome be racing against Nibali, when Contador is the benchmark for the tour?
Could he peak too early when his goal much later in the year?
Same questions were asked about Wiggins last year I know but Nibali should be stronger than Contador now as they target different goals.

Noo...I cannot believe we're going to have a re-tread of 'he's peaked too soon...'

Enter anti-sky opinions hear:................
Enter hysteria and conjecture (disguised as proof that season long peak is indication of doping) hear...........
Enter statement you know some one with proof hear..........
Retract last statement hear...........

Thanks

Soz, Squirrelness.. 8)

smithy21

I think you raise a valid point there FF.

Maybe teams need to think as teams more now and not individuals. If Nibali wants to win then what the hell is Kesiakoff doing in the break, for example.

iainf72

What you need to do is quite simple in theory, but really hard to execute. You need to make Sky ride a lot, and then start to get rid of their workers and isolate the leader. Pretty standard stuff but the problem is you've got a 800K guy leading a 900K guy leading a 1.1m guy (thanks Vaughters)

The one place you can do a bit of damage is if there is a descent to the finish and you're prepared to go like a bat out of hell. But uphill it's going to be tricky.

Squirrelpie

We want to see people attack. It is exiting when they do but no one seems to make it stick.
It looked like Froome was struggling and it looked liked Nibs and Berti had got away for a minute.
Its interesting to see what other teams do to brake the sky train.
The other teams need to have 2 potential leaders.
On mountain stages they could send there 2nd leader in an early break and force sky to chase them down then when the catch is made make an attack with the number 1 leader. The sky train will be drained from chasing down the break and unable to dictate final Climb exposing the sky leader.
They would need the other teams to reject pulling back the breaks.

andyp

Breaks, not brakes.

iainf72

andyp wrote:

Breaks, not brakes.

Perhaps mucking with Sky's brakes is a valid strategy?

Squirrelpie

If it wasn't for spell check you'd think i was speaking a different language loll.

iainf72

Quite crazy to think that Froome hadn't won a race as a pro until 2011. (In Europe)

He's like a different person.

Squirrelpie

iainf72 wrote:

Quite crazy to think that Froome hadn't won a race as a pro until 2011. (In Europe)

He's like a different person.

He had that illness and who knows for how long, could the depletion of red blood cells improved his bodies efficiency?

The guy was born and raised at 2km above see level and then moved and still lived at 1.75km above see level and was back at 1.75km above see level for winter training.

All that altitude, the recovery of his red blood cells, plus the sky way of training has turned him into what we see today. (I hope)

phreak

frenchfighter wrote:

My team did great work. They all helped me to be up there in the finale and fresher than everyone else

They all did great work today and when they are like that, my job becomes much easier

But me and the team have our style of racing that is probably very different to other teams

If we keep following a certain way of training and racing, it makes it a lot more controllable for us. The more you can control in a race then the more you can control the outcome. Cycling isn't always predictable but the more control you have over things, the easier it becomes

It's just continuing to work the way we worked in the last few years: training, measuring the training and going back and doing it again

-Froome

---

On a serious note, what if no one attacked or could attack, so everyone sat on Sky's train until they had used up their expensive super domestiques, shelling riders left right and centre. Then it came down to the last km or so and Sky's leader took off and only those climbers with sprinting legs could follow. Then Sky riders would somehow monster the hell out of everyone in the TTs.

Would you find that interesting?

Would you find it interesting if every single mountain stage in a stage race was like this?

I can see myself trending much more to enjoying the one day races and the flahutes then the stage races which is where my greatest enjoyment lay.

Surely everyone else sat in got exactly the same benefits of being behind the Sky domestiques as Froome did? Hard to see how the 'train' kept Froome fresh but somehow tired everyone else out that was getting just as much drafting.

If we assume that the sport is cleaner now than in the past, and therefore going on Pantani like attacks from miles out is no longer possible, surely this kind of racing is going to be the norm?

It's hard to be too sad that Contador has returned from his ban minus the ability to make very long attacks. That does seem to point to that style of riding only being possible with external help, and the riding we see now being more 'natural'.

GeorgeShaw

"It's just continuing to work the way we worked in the last few years: training, measuring the training and going back and doing it again

-Froome"

This is Brailsford, isn't it? Everybody said when Sky started the team that he'd have a problem because you don't have the control in road races that you can have in a velodrome. Yet apparently he's found a way to do it - this is his answer.

iainf72

Squirrelpie wrote:

The guy was born and raised at 2km above see level and then moved and still lived at 1.75km above see level and was back at 1.75km above see level for winter training.

All that altitude, the recovery of his red blood cells, plus the sky way of training has turned him into what we see today. (I hope)

I'm not sure the altitude makes that much difference. I spent 20 years living 1700m up and I've always been about as athletic as a bag of coal.

No doubt getting the bilharzia under control has been key.

frenchfighter

I think this is the finish for tomorrow. Awesome finish. Cobbled and a max gradient of 19% with a 12% avearge

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xpd9a8 ... mbediframe

mididoctors

we saw someone attack alright...that froome guy 1km from the end and made everyone look stupid.

you got to hand it to the ukpostals they know what they are doing

ddraver

frenchfighter wrote:

My team did great work. They all helped me to be up there in the finale and fresher than everyone else

They all did great work today and when they are like that, my job becomes much easier

But me and the team have our style of racing that is probably very different to other teams

If we keep following a certain way of training and racing, it makes it a lot more controllable for us. The more you can control in a race then the more you can control the outcome. Cycling isn't always predictable but the more control you have over things, the easier it becomes

It's just continuing to work the way we worked in the last few years: training, measuring the training and going back and doing it again

-Froome

---

On a serious note, what if no one attacked or could attack, so everyone sat on Sky's train until they had used up their expensive super domestiques, shelling riders left right and centre. Then it came down to the last km or so and Sky's leader took off and only those climbers with sprinting legs could follow. Then Sky riders would somehow monster the hell out of everyone in the TTs.

Would you find that interesting?

Would you find it interesting if every single mountain stage in a stage race was like this?

I can see myself trending much more to enjoying the one day races and the flahutes then the stage races which is where my greatest enjoyment lay.

On a serious note, that's how cycling has always been, we just had to watch a whole GT distilled into a 2 minute sports report so we think that it was always epic.

Oakley should start making rose tinted sunnies for cycling fans...

Turfle

iainf72 wrote:

Quite crazy to think that Froome hadn't won a race as a pro until 2011. (In Europe)

He's like a different person.

It is incredible. Until something turns up I'm willing to go with bilharzia and slower climbing speeds (5.9 w/kg again today) as an explanation, but it certainly is one of the more eyebrow-raising transformations of recent years. I'd always defended his place at Sky, and said if he got it all together he could be a good grand tour domestique, and maybe a big stage race top 5 kind of rider, but never expected him to be a GT challenger. Crazy.

If the bilharzia is true, it makes sense, if it's not true then it doesn't.

ianbar

froome and sky are way way ahead, unless contador in particular gets his head right and realises he cant beat 3-4 sky riders on his own

phreak

ianbar wrote:

froome and sky are way way ahead, unless contador in particular gets his head right and realises he cant beat 3-4 sky riders on his own

He doesn't have to beat 3-4 Sky riders on his own, he just has to beat Froome. Pretty sure drafting on climbs offers few physical benefits.

mroli

I don't get all this criticism of Sky - everyone bangs on about how great J Rod is because he has a kick, but is slagging off Sky because Froome has one and has a team that gets him there. Surely if you've got a kick, you ride the Sky Train and then kick? Froome still has to follow the wheels...

So Sky have money. Are you saying BMC (Hushovd, Ballan, Gilbert) don't have money? Are you saying OPQS don't have money?

Are you saying if Wiggins and Froome don't win the TDF, that someone else would step up? Why aren't they winning all GTs then?

So Sky have "super domestiques" - what about Contador's riding partners? Contador can call on Roche, Rogers, Sorenson, Kreuziger, Hernandez - are you telling me that they can't ride amongst/disrupt Sky's diesels?

This all smacks of massively sour grapes - oh Sky are paying too much money, oh they're unbalancing cycling, oh they've got boring tactics, oh this, oh that. Less chat, more challenging the status quo - Contador and Valverde did it at the Vuelta last year (with J Rod). It can be done - eg Cav no longer has the dominant train when people thought he'd ride that to sweeping victory after victory year after year.

thomthom

How does the 'bilharzia-story' makes sense?

He went from getting dropped on hills by Gerrans, to become sick and later to become one of the best rider of the whole peloton. How exactly does 2 years of sickness become a key to your development as rider? Surely you can't train like hell when you are this sick.

I'm not gonna' go on the bashing bandwagon, though, like some of you do with the few riders that add something to the race but have dodgy histories. I don't believe a second that Froome is clean. But I like him. Very sympathic, skillful and way too good and exciting to be riding like this. He shouldn't be winning from 1k out! He should be pissing all over the opponents showing how good he actually is - and he'd do it without problems. He could add so much more to the races than this.

cal_stewart

love the way people are banging on about bertie having not come into form yet and it will be different come June. News flash neither has froome.

Richmond Racer

Ahem....BMC spend more on wages for Gilbert, Cuddles and Hushovd, than Sky do on Wiggins, Froome and a host of other riders. At the time of the Tour, Wiggins was on 1.5m, and Froome rumoured 1.2m - Gilbert and Cuddles alone are each around the 3m mark IIRC, and Hushovd isnt far off.

Even for the neos, BMC are ready to offer higher salaries - their offer to Joe Dombrowski was higher than Sky's according to recent interviews.

So although Sky can certainly spend more than Garmin, for example, Rhis's chequebook flaps open readily at BMC.

Which salary spend has been delivering higher VFM since early 2012?

Pross

frenchfighter wrote:

On a serious note, what if no one attacked or could attack, so everyone sat on Sky's train until they had used up their expensive super domestiques, shelling riders left right and centre. Then it came down to the last km or so and Sky's leader took off and only those climbers with sprinting legs could follow. Then Sky riders would somehow monster the hell out of everyone in the TTs.

Would you find that interesting?

Would you find it interesting if every single mountain stage in a stage race was like this?

I can see myself trending much more to enjoying the one day races and the flahutes then the stage races which is where my greatest enjoyment lay.

If no-one attacked I'd find it boring but there will always be riders who have to attack to win. I enjoy the 'horses for courses' tactics. For teams wanting to keep sponsors winning is number one and having lots of TV time of a whole string of riders wearing the sponsors name stringing it out on an iconic climb as the race reaches its climax doesn't do any harm?

Crankbrother

Frenchie, c'mon ... back when Astana/Levi was doing this job for AC you were all over it ...

It's another teams turn ... accept it and marvel when a rider/team can snap,the elastic ...

petemadoc

mroli wrote:

I don't get all this criticism of Sky - everyone bangs on about how great J Rod is because he has a kick, but is slagging off Sky because Froome has one and has a team that gets him there. Surely if you've got a kick, you ride the Sky Train and then kick? Froome still has to follow the wheels...

So Sky have money. Are you saying BMC (Hushovd, Ballan, Gilbert) don't have money? Are you saying OPQS don't have money?

Are you saying if Wiggins and Froome don't win the TDF, that someone else would step up? Why aren't they winning all GTs then?

So Sky have "super domestiques" - what about Contador's riding partners? Contador can call on Roche, Rogers, Sorenson, Kreuziger, Hernandez - are you telling me that they can't ride amongst/disrupt Sky's diesels?

This all smacks of massively sour grapes - oh Sky are paying too much money, oh they're unbalancing cycling, oh they've got boring tactics, oh this, oh that. Less chat, more challenging the status quo - Contador and Valverde did it at the Vuelta last year (with J Rod). It can be done - eg Cav no longer has the dominant train when people thought he'd ride that to sweeping victory after victory year after year.

Agree completely, and all this crap about money, didn't inering do a post about bmc being the top spenders?

Sky have their tactics, it's not foolproof, Froome appears to be the strongest rider.

Wiggins vs nibali should be a good showdown!

thegibdog

Well, this is all very sad, isn't it? I thought an entertaining stage would mean people would be speculating about how great this season's grand tours could be but instead it is met with delusion, cynicism and disbelief.

nweststeyn

iainf72 wrote:

Quite crazy to think that Froome hadn't won a race as a pro until 2011. (In Europe)

He's like a different person.

As well as all the other things already mentioned, and the difference good training can make, my memory of Froome pre-Sky was of a much heavier guy. Still a cyclist, of course (as skinny as we all wish we were), but not the stick thin lanky muscle-twig we see now.

I want to believe it.

nweststeyn

RichN95.

After Pro Tour Pundit, my favourite feature of this forum is Frenchie having a strop. It's just funny. Try reading it in an Alan Partridge voice for extra effect.

On the cycling front though - I may be alone on this - but I love seeing a coherent team performance getting the job done. (No doubt a result of playing team sports for 25 years)