Six Nations Thread

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  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:
    Ian McGeechan's player ratings in the Telegraph make for interesting reading (although I think he may may swung the pendulum too far the other way).
    Surely can't be that easy for a team that "wins" on aggregate ratings to lose 30-3? :D:D:D
  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    bompington wrote:
    Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:
    Ian McGeechan's player ratings in the Telegraph make for interesting reading (although I think he may may swung the pendulum too far the other way).
    Surely can't be that easy for a team that "wins" on aggregate ratings to lose 30-3? :D:D:D

    Perhaps, just perhaps, this England team was a tiny bit over hyped and are actually - not all that!? Would anyone in the English media dare to suggest it? Stephen Jones tore down the house of cards in the Sunday Times just as completely as the Welsh team, clearly he had some scores to settle.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    It's always either/or with the English press, hence why I tend not to read very much of it. The team have lots in their favour but also a lot they still need to work on. Will Carling does a fairly regular twitter Q&A and pointed out this morning that 10 of the England players have never played in Cardiff before...

    As Wales have demonstrated over the past 6 months, 1 game, or even 1 series, does nt make or break a team. How England deal with it is what will determine how good they will be. Likewise for Wales, can they summon such intensity against the SH teams? Have a little look at www.walesonline.co.uk if you want to see some hype there.

    Unfortunately we ll have to wait 8 months to find out and none of the above makes for a good newspaper column.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,027
    DD

    You went looking for some Welsh hype on Walesonline a Welsh news site for Welsh consumption. I think Wales earned the right to celebrate?

    If England had won the 'British' media would have been all over it. BBC Breakfast would have had it as a headline. It is media issue rather than a sporting one.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    which was my point exactly...same for any subject covered in a newspaper.

    The bbc news had a long review of the game on Saturday night but by Sunday, people throwing coins at Footballers was deemed more of a story...have to say I'm pretty used to it by now as I don't especially follow any mainstream sports.
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,027
    ddraver wrote:
    which was my point exactly...same for any subject covered in a newspaper.

    The bbc news had a long review of the game on Saturday night but by Sunday, people throwing coins at Footballers was deemed more of a story...have to say I'm pretty used to it by now as I don't especially follow any mainstream sports.

    My bad, just read what you said again. Makes perfect sense :oops:
  • Monkeypump
    Monkeypump Posts: 1,528
    Sketchley wrote:
    In other news.... Had a great day out at LV Cup final yesterday, what was effectively the quins 2nd XV showing for the 2nd week running how to play, entertaining, fast, asccurate rugby against premiership 1st XV teams. Hopefully SL is watching this as this is how we would like England to play. If you didn't see the game highlight should be on the ITV player... I had a great day out... And if you are in the area the The Red Hart in Kington, Worcestershire is one of the best (if not the best) pub sunday roasts I've every had

    Slight thread hijack, but I watched this on TV and the 'event' didn't seem all that. Interesting game, but Quins didn't seem that bothered about winning, Sale didn't upset about losing and the ground didn't look full.

    I think every cup should be worth playing for, so is there any point in the LV any more?
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    SecretSqirrel wrote:
    ddraver wrote:
    which was my point exactly...same for any subject covered in a newspaper.

    The bbc news had a long review of the game on Saturday night but by Sunday, people throwing coins at Footballers was deemed more of a story...have to say I'm pretty used to it by now as I don't especially follow any mainstream sports.

    My bad, just read what you said again. Makes perfect sense :oops:

    You are, of course, forgiven! ;)
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Monkeypump
    Monkeypump Posts: 1,528
    Sewinman wrote:
    bompington wrote:
    Greg66 Tri v2.0 wrote:
    Ian McGeechan's player ratings in the Telegraph make for interesting reading (although I think he may may swung the pendulum too far the other way).
    Surely can't be that easy for a team that "wins" on aggregate ratings to lose 30-3? :D:D:D

    Perhaps, just perhaps, this England team was a tiny bit over hyped and are actually - not all that!? Would anyone in the English media dare to suggest it? Stephen Jones tore down the house of cards in the Sunday Times just as completely as the Welsh team, clearly he had some scores to settle.

    I think it's unfair to say the current England team are not 'all that'. Lancaster and this squad have turned English rugby around in the last year or so, and getting a record-breaking victory over the ABs was not just luck. There's lots to do, but they're certainly not average. To say so takes away some of the achievement of the Welsh on Saturday - a team who outclassed England in every dimension and rightly won by a margin that reflected it.

    And anyone who reads Rugby World will know that Stephen Jones talks utter sh*te much of the time.
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    Monkeypump wrote:
    Sketchley wrote:
    In other news.... Had a great day out at LV Cup final yesterday, what was effectively the quins 2nd XV showing for the 2nd week running how to play, entertaining, fast, asccurate rugby against premiership 1st XV teams. Hopefully SL is watching this as this is how we would like England to play. If you didn't see the game highlight should be on the ITV player... I had a great day out... And if you are in the area the The Red Hart in Kington, Worcestershire is one of the best (if not the best) pub sunday roasts I've every had

    Slight thread hijack, but I watched this on TV and the 'event' didn't seem all that. Interesting game, but Quins didn't seem that bothered about winning, Sale didn't upset about losing and the ground didn't look full.

    I think every cup should be worth playing for, so is there any point in the LV any more?

    :shock: Top trolling, are you a Sarries fan?
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • Monkeypump
    Monkeypump Posts: 1,528
    Sketchley wrote:
    Monkeypump wrote:
    Sketchley wrote:
    In other news.... Had a great day out at LV Cup final yesterday, what was effectively the quins 2nd XV showing for the 2nd week running how to play, entertaining, fast, asccurate rugby against premiership 1st XV teams. Hopefully SL is watching this as this is how we would like England to play. If you didn't see the game highlight should be on the ITV player... I had a great day out... And if you are in the area the The Red Hart in Kington, Worcestershire is one of the best (if not the best) pub sunday roasts I've every had

    Slight thread hijack, but I watched this on TV and the 'event' didn't seem all that. Interesting game, but Quins didn't seem that bothered about winning, Sale didn't upset about losing and the ground didn't look full.

    I think every cup should be worth playing for, so is there any point in the LV any more?

    :shock: Top trolling, are you a Sarries fan?

    Ha, no. And no intentional trolling.

    I was at Twickenham to watch my beloved Wasps beat Scarlets in '06 and, from memory, there were quite a few more in the crowd than at Sixways this weekend (a ground that holds, what, 10k?).

    The LV seems no more special than a mid-season Premiership game, and plenty of the pool games were no more than excuses for a Corporate day out. From what I saw on Sky, the final just didn't seem much of an event, and the post-match reactions supported that.

    Glad you had a cracking day out - obviously something was missing from the Sky coverage. The showing from a Quins 'supporting cast' certainly underlines their likely dominance in the next few years.
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    The attendance figures since it switch to the lv cup and the switch to it being played during autumn internationals and six nations has been as high as 12k (tigs vs Saints at Sixways) and as low as 6k (Gloc vs Newcastle at FG). There was 8k on Sunday. the lower tier in main stand, where I was, was pretty much full and split down the middle between sale and quins. Great atmosphere at the game, no idea how it translated on screen. Very good game from the stands, quin perpared to throw it around, sale trying to dominate early with forward power (choke tackles gallore) but getting unpicked by quin creativity and ability to keep the ball off the groun and win quick ball when they don't. Sale made a reall good go of it at start of 2nd half but ultimatly only managed a consolutation try, had the played the whole 80mins like they play the first 20mins of 2nd half it would have been a different game. Sale should be better than they are, the clearly have some good player, they just don't seem to be sure what it is they are trying to do!
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    Sorry I should add EDF cup and Powegen before that, finals were at Twickenham and averaged 50k..... But different competition back then
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • greg66_tri_v2.0
    greg66_tri_v2.0 Posts: 7,172
    ddraver wrote:
    It's always either/or with the English press, hence why I tend not to read very much of it. The team have lots in their favour but also a lot they still need to work on. Will Carling does a fairly regular twitter Q&A and pointed out this morning that 10 of the England players have never played in Cardiff before...

    As Wales have demonstrated over the past 6 months, 1 game, or even 1 series, does nt make or break a team. How England deal with it is what will determine how good they will be. Likewise for Wales, can they summon such intensity against the SH teams? Have a little look at http://www.walesonline.co.uk if you want to see some hype there.

    Unfortunately we ll have to wait 8 months to find out and none of the above makes for a good newspaper column.

    Yes. Anyone thinking it would be simplicity itself to get a Pritt stick and stick Lions badges on the Welsh XV's shirts and pack them off to Australia would do well to remind themselves of the stats recorded here.
    Swim. Bike. Run. Yeah. That's what I used to do.

    Bike 1
    Bike 2-A
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,079
    I'm of the opinion that the press (or at least the BBC Sport website) treats a Welsh Grand Slam as equally as it would an English Slam and that it's just the Welsh/Scottish inferiority complex that drives the argument. The BBC site currently has several articles with headlines that make it clear what a beating England took.

    I can't really be arsed to do it but it is possible to search back through the archives to 2003 (and beyond), so how about someone has a look and does some stats on how many more/less articles there are for Grand Slams by nation. This can be taken further with use of particular words/phrases that apprently get overused when England win compared to other nations. Rather than just state that if England had won the BBC would have pulled out all the stops and even sponsored the bus top parade, give us some stats.

    Somone can also do the same for the supposed Scottish/British thing when Murray loses/wins.

    There is good opportunity to produce graphs here.
  • Sewinman
    Sewinman Posts: 2,131
    Bollox to stats, its sh*t like this that make me want to prison shame England:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugb ... 97132.html
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    To be fair - read the whole quote...

    “If it was to start tomorrow, we’d back ourselves to win it,” said the Harlequins forward. “It’s a little bit of an English thing in most sports, getting ahead of ourselves somewhat. But we’re on a journey. We’re on a journey as a team and each time we pull on that shirt it’s another step towards that ultimate goal of a home World Cup in front of your own fans.

    “That’s our main goal. But we’ll be focusing on the process in between then and now because it’s still two and a half years away, so we’ve got lots to do before then''


    In fact, f**K it, whoever wrote the headline has stitched him up like a kipper. He says nothing even a tiny bit like the headline. The Telegraph has done something similar to Sam Warburton today as well...

    Remembering why I never read flipping newspapers again...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,079
    ddraver wrote:
    To be fair - read the whole quote...

    “If it was to start tomorrow, we’d back ourselves to win it,” said the Harlequins forward. “It’s a little bit of an English thing in most sports, getting ahead of ourselves somewhat. But we’re on a journey. We’re on a journey as a team and each time we pull on that shirt it’s another step towards that ultimate goal of a home World Cup in front of your own fans.

    “That’s our main goal. But we’ll be focusing on the process in between then and now because it’s still two and a half years away, so we’ve got lots to do before then''


    In fact, f**K it, whoever wrote the headline has stitched him up like a kipper. He says nothing even a tiny bit like the headline. The Telegraph has done something similar to Sam Warburton today as well...

    Remembering why I never read flipping newspapers again...

    Typical really. Ridiculous headlines sell newspapers.... but also make reputations in most peoples minds. Witness the fact most people think Andy Murray is a nob because of his apparent hatred of England which was actually just an off the cuff remark in response to Scottish/English banter around the dinner table with some journos.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    It all makes sense!!!

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/rug ... 3031863014

    :P
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    So now the official whingeing has started...
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    From the report - "In most of the games, I've submitted glowing reports on referees but on this occasion we were frustrated by a lot of the outcomes and I will be speaking to Joel [Jutge] to get some clarification [about the] breakdown and scrum."
    Could be read as - in most of the games, we won so it doesn't matter. In the game we lost, it does. :wink:
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    Hmm, well the refereeing of the scrum has been appalling for the last 10 years or so, it would ve been good if every team had done the same thing as they all have a case...

    Even with Cycling I still very much look like a front row player (which I was) so i get asked about this regularly. I used to try and fathom what the decisions were based on and try and explain it, now I just give up...I swear some refs give it to side A if there are an even number of minutes played and Side B if an odd number...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    I too used to be a prop. I could rarely work out what the penalties were being given for when it was me that was being penalised, so how someone outside the scrum could tell I really don't know.
    So in that sense, England might have a point. What grates is the implication that Walsh was actually biased, as opposed to just clueless about what goes in the front row like most refs.
  • heavymental
    heavymental Posts: 2,079
    I must admit to getting a bit bored by the end of the 6N. Some/most of the games, although engaging,became pretty turgid. Every scrum you could expect 3 minutes of resets and unexplainable penalties. It can't imagine a neutral would find it engaging.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    I don't think they re suggesting that it changed the result, but that some/most of the decisions were simply unfathomable...

    Something like show me in the rulebook where it says that the Hooker has to stand still until a given moment or that it's a free kick to the team that takes 3 paces forward before the 9 has so much as crouched down to put the ball in...

    He applied the same rules to both teams equally, it's just that the rules were nt the rules of rugby in 2013...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    This is the final test of the Rugby Championship (ex Tri Nations) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktn-g6P4qk

    It is an outstanding game of rugby, every fan should watch it. The skill level is exceptional, the referring top notch (kudos to Nigel owens) and the excitement raw. You could argue that it's also a great exhibition of the differences between Northern and Southern Hemisphere rugby too.

    Enjoy!
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    ddraver wrote:
    This is the final test of the Rugby Championship (ex Tri Nations) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qktn-g6P4qk

    It is an outstanding game of rugby, every fan should watch it. The skill level is exceptional, the referring top notch (kudos to Nigel owens) and the excitement raw. You could argue that it's also a great exhibition of the differences between Northern and Southern Hemisphere rugby too.

    Enjoy!

    The thing is both side set out to play an open game and score tries. SA needed a bonus point win to win the championship and NZ play like that anyway. It would be interesting to see what would happen if SA only need a win, and not a bonus point win. In my opinion the game would have been played in the front 10 and kept very tight by SA and a different game would have resulted if that had been the case.

    The problem with a comparision of NH vs SH has always been open rugby vs tight rugby, it's rare in top flight NH rugby or NH vs SH internationals that both teams go out to throw the ball around it just doesn't happen for a variety of reasons. This competion with a bonus point structure made that happen. Unfortunately we don't see games like this very often, and even less often in the NH.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    That was a cracker, the two top teams on the planet playing their socks off...

    Exeter chiefs played a similar open attacking game and whupped Cardiff blues yesterday... When played like that, rugby is so exciting... Pity that a lot of the time it's dull and turgid
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,660
    Yeah Sketch, I wasn't making a criticism, just an observation. The point of posting was just to make sure that people got to watch a stunning game! That second Habana try is so awesome! I was recommended it by my old man and I'm just paying the favour forward...

    Mikey - If you ve a link for the Exeter game I'd love to see it, I was flying back home so couldnt watch but they re a local side for me,
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Mikey23
    Mikey23 Posts: 5,306
    Me too... From launceston, saw it on sky and can't see any links elsewhere I'm afraid...

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